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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 9:43:46 GMT -5
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 9:49:48 GMT -5
And here's the Pearls' personal blog, which is not much different in content from the NGJ blog that Vyckie linked in her article: michaeldebipearl.blogspot.com/
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 9:51:32 GMT -5
By the way, do we need to break links for NGJ-related sites so that they don't see a bunch of new readers from NLQ? (not sure how this works... I've been in many forums that generally break the links of "hostile" sites)
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 10:00:43 GMT -5
And here is the Rebekah (Pearl) Anast blog that someone referenced. Strange indeed... She has a lot of horrific dreams, most permeated by apocalytic/war themes. www.dreaming-awake.com/And this is the Anast family website: www.7xsunday.net/
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 5, 2010 10:09:38 GMT -5
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 10:15:03 GMT -5
One of Rebekah Anast's dreams. Terrifying. ****TRIGGER WARNING**** (infanticide, mass starvation, etc.) www.dreaming-awake.com/index.php?itemid=134&catid=10This was possibly the worst dream I've ever had. I dreamed that I was asleep and then awoke to a regular day. Time passed and I saw events come to pass that are prophesied in Scripture. I was distressed to see people I love experiencing horrific distress. Sickness, famine, war, death... These are just words. How can I describe the way famine looks? The way pain-induced insanity rings in the ears? How violence upon loved ones breaks the mind? I was overwhelmed with grief because I had not warned the people enough to convince them to leave the cities and the coasts... grieved that they had not believed me. It was too much to bear. I awoke with huge relief that it had been only a dream, and had not yet happened. So I went about my day and thought about the dream. Time passed, and I saw the same events come to pass that I had dreamed about... and then saw again the people I love experiencing the most traumatizing violence and death. I couldn't bear it... and so I woke again with relief that it was just another dream. I lay in the bed crying and praying for the people, and then got up to go about my day... and was horrified to see the end coming so quickly. It was just like I had dreamed, but with more detail and involving people that are very dear to me. A friend and her husband wanted to show us a place that they had purchased out in the rural mountains of the East. I was impressed with their choice of a house. It was stone, and very rural. People were trying to talk them out of living so far away from friends and family, but they believed bad times were coming, and wanted to live rurally. They were showing us the house they had bought, and we told them that it was going to get really bad in the East, but that the place they had chosen was pretty good, for that area of the US. Time passed and violence fell on the land. We were separated from friends and family in the East, but I saw how it went with them. I saw many of the younger men leave their families to go fight in small groups to help defend the country. It was a noble cause. But the end was prophesied. They died. I saw my friend starving. Her youngest had died earlier, by disease I think. She had no one to care for them or hunt for food. She didn't know what wild things were edible. She was living in a rural "safe" place, but had not seen anyone alive in a long time. She knew her husband must be dead. She and her 7 year old child sat listlessly waiting for death. The child was starving to death. The woman looked at her child and thought "I should just kill her, so she won't go through the pain and suffering of death." So she did. Then she looked at the child's body and thought, "Why not eat the body? Why not?" I saw the end ahead of her... I saw the relief coming. It was just beyond the reach of mortality... or maybe not... and I saw the endless ages in which she would live with the knowledge that she had eaten her own child. I thought, "these are the tears he wipes away." And I began to cry. I woke up crying. I cried all day. I'm still crying for the people that just don't believe what is coming could be that bad. Deuteronomy 28:47-53 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all [things]; Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all [things]: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, [as swift] as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which [also] shall not leave thee [either] corn, wine, or oil, [or] the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee. And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 10:18:28 GMT -5
Actually, one thing I'm noticing is that Rebekah's dreams are filled with imagery about parents doing bodily harm to their children. Interesting.
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jo
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by jo on Mar 5, 2010 10:32:10 GMT -5
You can get copies of their financials online. They have 504(c) status, which means you can access their 990s including what the Pearls actually pay whomever they call the CEO of the ministry out of last year's $1.8mil.
As far as Christians adopting, its not ALL a bad thing. Not all Christians follow Ezzo nor Pearl. Not all Christian families are holier than though in doing adoptions.
When you look at the statistics of orphans in this world, it makes SENSE to adopt. Moral people should be seeking out adoptions. It shouldn't be focused on just Christians. But, thanks to Steven Curtis Chapman's family and Shoshannah's Hope, the Christian community has embraced this as a religious call to faith.
I'm going to openly admit that I would need to go re-check my fact. But, iirc, 50% of children who age out of orphanages will engage in sex trade behaviors in order to support themselves. 80% who age out of orphanages will die within 5 years after aging out. The rate who will be homeless is even higher. Children in orphanages have few attachments, few family support, no material possessions, no safety net, no mentor to help them navigate the world, no realistic exposure to the world outside of the orphanage. In short, they have NO ability to be functional thriving members of ANY society after they spend their entire lives in orphanages. Romania understood this dismal outlook so throughly that they deliberatelly sought orphanage care to create soldiers--disposable people trained to take orders without thinking and no one to object at the risks and high rates of death.
Most people who adopt are NOT following Pearl or Ezzo, even if they are Christians.
Trying to stop adoptions is misguided at best and criminal at worst. Fighting for ethical adoptions, and proper training for all who adopt is a better option. There are certain circles that are drawn to certain type of adoption. Liberia was a hotbed of highly punitive, quiverful families who were rescuing those children. China, otoh, doesn't have that problem. Strict quiverful families cannot and will not survive the process for China. And, Ethiopia has been concious of the issue and tried to halt the problems there. Haiti could be bought, so it was going on even though their laws tried to avoid it.
Ezzo and Pearl have infiltrated secular parenting circles. A good friend took her children to a new pediatrician. Friend is a christian, new doctor was not. When friend attempted to discuss her concerns that said daughter might be on the autism spectrum, pediatrician recommended---Michael Pearl, with the caveat to weed out the religion.
Adoptees are uniquely vunerable to Pearl's training because of the need to etablish a bond between mother and older child. But the problem is NOT adoption. Its No Greater Joy. It was a ticking time bomb before the rise in international adoptions occurred in the Christian communities. Not all adoptees are at risk of even encountering Pearl-style training. In fact most adoptees are not at risk. Most legitimate adoptions agencies will NOT place children in a home where there is even a hint of that kind of discipline methods are being used. That family did NOT use a legitimate adoption agency. They used a facilatator, one who was lying and decieving when they adopted and who is blameshifting and pretending they had no idea now that Lydia is dead. That facilitator knew exactly what was going on in the homes she placed children in, because she catered to this community. And, aren't you glad to know she's not only trying to re-open Liberia but trying to open the DNC to allow her to go back to what she was doing again.
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Post by debrand on Mar 5, 2010 10:33:17 GMT -5
Actually, one thing I'm noticing is that Rebekah's dreams are filled with imagery about parents doing bodily harm to their children. Interesting. I worry that this couple's paranoia, combined with their extreme religious believes, self induced isolation, and poverty will one day be the cause of their doing something really horrible. If Rebekah saw her dreams as being just a nightmare, I wouldn't worry but she sees her dreams as being prophetic. Like you, I wonder about the number of dreams that she has that involves parents hurting children.
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 10:39:02 GMT -5
Actually, one thing I'm noticing is that Rebekah's dreams are filled with imagery about parents doing bodily harm to their children. Interesting. I worry that this couple's paranoia, combined with their extreme religious believes, self induced isolation, and poverty will one day be the cause of their doing something really horrible. If Rebekah saw her dreams as being just a nightmare, I wouldn't worry but she sees her dreams as being prophetic. Like you, I wonder about the number of dreams that she has that involves parents hurting children. I know. I was thinking the same thing. She sounds like a very troubled person with kind of a nightmarish view of the world. I'm also noticing that there's a lot of brutal rape in her dreams.
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Post by mothersson on Mar 5, 2010 10:45:25 GMT -5
Where can that address be found?
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 10:46:08 GMT -5
Where can that address be found? linked above in this thread
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Post by mothersson on Mar 5, 2010 10:58:16 GMT -5
I see it thanks!
I want to mention something regarding biblical bible quotes. The Old Testament's statement that if "you beat them with a rod, they will not die. Proverbs 23:13 is wrong. Countless children have died. Jesuss went against many of the Old Testament teachings. A PBS speaker on family dysfunction pointed out that King Soloman wrote the quotes that support physically assaulting children. Well, King Soloman and his son heavily taxed their kingom and was otherwise brutal.Was that based on God's teachings?son he was ousted. Who have him the right to have power over the people? Here is a quote by Rehoboam. "Whereas my father laid upon you a heavy yoke, so shall I add tenfold thereto. Whereas my father chastised (tortured) you with whips, so shall I chastise you with scorpions. For my littlest finger is thicker than my father's loins; and your backs, which bent like reeds at my father's touch, shall break like straws at my own touch." So people like Michael Pearl are following the teachings of brutal leaders not God or Jesus. Does this make sense?
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 11:00:27 GMT -5
This is weird... In 2009, the State of New Mexico and Zuni Indian Tribe (Navajo Nation) sued Rebekah and Gabe over something having to do with diverting water from the Zuni River Basin. They were held in "default" for failing to appear at hearings: www.zunibasin.com/documents/2142.pdf
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Post by amyrose on Mar 5, 2010 11:16:55 GMT -5
I think this post really bothered me more than others in part because of how I spent a chunk of my afternoon. I'm a university professor and one of the few women in my department. I had a female student come in today to drop because she is at the end of her rope and planning on dropping out of school. She had been told by her parents she had to come to this school, do this major, and have this plan for her life. In reality, she wanted to go to a small program and major in biology with an eye to becoming a vet. Her parents rejected that plan and forced her onto what they wanted. Now, she's painfully unhappy and failing. I wound up spending much more time than anticipated trying to work out a way to keep her enrolled and explaining to her that her dreams have value and its never too late to follow them. I'm not sure she had ever been told by someone that while its not the path I'm on, it sounds like a good idea if that's what gets you excited. The older I get, the less tolerant I am of people who think its not only acceptable, but their perjogative, to mold others by destroying bits and pieces of their soul. I had an education student in my classroom last semester to observe. She was a smart and lovely young woman who loves and thrives in science and wants to be a doctor. Her parents had reluctantly decided she could get a biology degree but has to get a "back-up" degree as a high school English teacher because she probably won't get into medical school. And she probably won't because they also made her do her core courses at a community college--so she would not leave home for two extra years. Our counselor said that that often handicaps students trying to get into medical, law or vet school because admissions departments are concerned that it may have been necessary as remediation. She could have cared less about teaching as a career or observing in my room but seemed afraid of standing up to her parents about it all. It broke my heart.
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Post by debrand on Mar 5, 2010 12:06:10 GMT -5
This is weird... In 2009, the State of New Mexico and Zuni Indian Tribe (Navajo Nation) sued Rebekah and Gabe over something having to do with diverting water from the Zuni River Basin. They were held in "default" for failing to appear at hearings: www.zunibasin.com/documents/2142.pdfInteresting. I have wondered why they are allowed to live on the Navajo reservation when I don't think that either are of Native American descent. I wonder how they were diverting water? It wouldn't surprise me if the Anasts were simply too arogant to show up for the hearing.
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Post by debrand on Mar 5, 2010 12:15:57 GMT -5
Even my chickens are laughing . . . well, actually it is more like cackling, because they just laid another organic egg for my breakfast and they know that it was that same piece of ¼ inch plastic supply line that trained the dogs not to eat chicken.
My oldest daughter wanted to know why this isn't considered animal abuse.
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em
Full Member
Posts: 176
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Post by em on Mar 5, 2010 13:10:08 GMT -5
I think this post really bothered me more than others in part because of how I spent a chunk of my afternoon. I'm a university professor and one of the few women in my department. I had a female student come in today to drop because she is at the end of her rope and planning on dropping out of school. She had been told by her parents she had to come to this school, do this major, and have this plan for her life. In reality, she wanted to go to a small program and major in biology with an eye to becoming a vet. Her parents rejected that plan and forced her onto what they wanted. Now, she's painfully unhappy and failing. I wound up spending much more time than anticipated trying to work out a way to keep her enrolled and explaining to her that her dreams have value and its never too late to follow them. I'm not sure she had ever been told by someone that while its not the path I'm on, it sounds like a good idea if that's what gets you excited. The older I get, the less tolerant I am of people who think its not only acceptable, but their perjogative, to mold others by destroying bits and pieces of their soul. I had an education student in my classroom last semester to observe. She was a smart and lovely young woman who loves and thrives in science and wants to be a doctor. Her parents had reluctantly decided she could get a biology degree but has to get a "back-up" degree as a high school English teacher because she probably won't get into medical school. And she probably won't because they also made her do her core courses at a community college--so she would not leave home for two extra years. Our counselor said that that often handicaps students trying to get into medical, law or vet school because admissions departments are concerned that it may have been necessary as remediation. She could have cared less about teaching as a career or observing in my room but seemed afraid of standing up to her parents about it all. It broke my heart. Boy does that sound familiar.
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Post by dangermom on Mar 5, 2010 13:27:48 GMT -5
Those dreams are some pretty weird stuff.
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Post by hopewell on Mar 5, 2010 13:53:04 GMT -5
"As everyone knows, the murdered girl was adopted from Liberia. With that in mind, here is a story that is quite troubling. After reading it I wondered how many of these adoption crusaders will be following Pearl or Ezo. And, can both foreign and US governments improve the screening process, weeding out Pearl followers? www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-s....battlecry/full/" Of course this is true! My children are among the many who were adopted thru Church-based programs. I did not have to sign anything pledging to bring them up in any faith, but did have to go thru a Christian adoption agency for my state-approval. I have written elsewhere [maybe here or FJ or Razing Ruth] about "kid collecting" thru international adoption and the ways the children are often treated VERY differently from the biological children. Having been to Ukraine to adopt, having lived in Southern Africa I will say the kids DO get an immediate boost in life expectancy [the children in the Pearl article being rare exceptions] and a better overall quality of life for the most part. Remember, most adoptions have no reason to ever make the news! My son [and countless others] would have died without necessary medical treatment had he not been adopted [in my son's case it was a savage infection from a bad tooth]. As always, the "bad apples" spoil it for all. That said, the families usually come home to NOTHING in the way of support except prayer and other families struggling to adjust. Finding therapists [and paying for them] is a struggle. Today many communication problems can be quickly solved with the Internet, but many children come home to a totally new language as well as culture. Like with many "Crisis Pregnancy" ministries, the "Life" of the child is saved, but then the parents are totally on their own. In our case, we knew one family who was very likely "abusive" and countless others who would be classified as "struggling" While I WAS at least given the name of a fashionable pediatric group who decided to specialize in "foreign adopted" children, that was the ONLY resource I was given. One Church-affiliated counselor recommended spanking my son whenever he did anything bad. Thankfully, I kept looking! I eventually found an excellent therapist. But many such families would not be that lucky--either from insurance that won't pay, or only pays for certain care providers, or because they are self-employed and uninsured. Those are the times when parents, in desperation, turn to people like the Pearls. While the PEARLS deserve damnation I hope no one here will decide that foreign adoption is wrong due to this case [and yes, there have been other foreign adopted kids killed by parents--one Russian boy in the Chicago area comes to mind.] Lydia's parents likely started in with the Pearls in semi-desperation, dealing with a child with Reactive Attachment Issues and quickly crossed the line when it didn't prove to be a "quick fix." They DO deserve blame as well as the Pearls.
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Post by Sierra on Mar 5, 2010 14:06:36 GMT -5
I had dreams like Anast's throughout my fundie days and for three years after getting out. They were always apocalyptic and traumatizing. I frequently dreamed that I was murdered by my own father.
Sometimes, I had dreams that seemed to play out in real life weeks or months later. That made the rest of them even more scary.
The dreams have gone now (cured by living with my boyfriend, who could hug me whenever I woke up screaming or crying). But they definitely signal a troubled mind. Then again, is it possible to believe in imminent Tribulation and the destruction of everything and not be troubled by it? I don't think so.
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Post by asteli on Mar 5, 2010 15:12:07 GMT -5
Maybe, except that anyone at all can register, and as paranoid as these people sound, I suspect they're infiltrating critical groups. What about a private google group? Or is that not necessary? What do you think? My thought is that... Someone out there must have information on their books and accounting and all of it... But it's not really going to be easy to get that information on a relatively public space. Maybe we should provide a go to email address similar to what they do with police hunts: "If you have any information about No Greater Joys Ministries and would like to assist NLQ with their effort to raise awareness, please contact..." And then, in addition, either a registered member group here or a private google group? Too much? I created a Yahoo group, if no one else has somewhere. I'll make it private when I get home. PM me for details.
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 16:39:54 GMT -5
Asteli: I just sent you a PM with information on the board Vyckie set up here to talk about combating the Pearls in a more private space.
In case anyone missed Vyckie's earlier message, I just wanted to reiterate: Please send me a PM if you would like to sign in to that board, and I'll send you the information.
ETA: Anyone who's up for doing a little research/web investigating/parsing with this stuff is welcome. In particular, we need some help with the following: non-profit law, budgets, finances, freedom of speech protections, information about child deaths/abuse cases related to NGJ outside of the United States, etc. Thanks!
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Post by Margaret on Mar 5, 2010 16:59:17 GMT -5
Speaking up as someone who believes in the fundamentals of orthodox Christianity and who doesn't use birth control... ;D But not "quivering" by any means. I used to think "Quiverfull" referred simply to Ps 127 and an openness to children, but either it never did, or the implication has changed, so I hesitate to label myself that way. Anywhoo... Mike Pearl's post made me Yikes. I have always thought their tone was arrogant, but this was just awful. bleh. And Rebekah's dream blog again. Yikes again. I had to check and make sure that pen name was hers, it's just too bizarre for words. It's all extremely strange and upsetting. I cannot imagine the state of mind that would lead a person to write such a crass, heartless, prideful piece. Everyone has a right to defend themselves or to answer criticism. But this wasn't defensive at all. It was deliberate offense and that seems to be a habit with them. Sad for little Lydia and her siblings.
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Hillary
Full Member
"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
Posts: 129
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Post by Hillary on Mar 5, 2010 20:42:43 GMT -5
I want to mention something regarding biblical bible quotes. The Old Testament's statement that if "you beat them with a rod, they will not die. Proverbs 23:13 is wrong. Countless children have died. Jesuss went against many of the Old Testament teachings. Exodus 21:20 “And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. This Scripture to me proves that the Proverbs one is not literal. If it is known that an adult can be beat with a rod and die, so much that it is actually placed within OT law, then how can people use Prov. 24:13 to justify child beating?
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