*~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~* It is a most insidious drug which must be administered to others in order to achieve its desired effects for oneself. ~ Marie Winn *~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~**~*~*
Re: Final Break « Reply #2 on Aug 15, 2010, 10:18am »
I cried reading her story. It was what compelled me to finally join the forum. It all felt very familiar, even while I don't the quiver full of children.
Joined: Jan 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 80 Location: Appleton, WI Karma: 20,001
Re: Final Break « Reply #4 on Aug 15, 2010, 12:44pm »
Reading this just makes me heartsick. I will never understand how some people can be so blind and cruel to the one they took a vow before god to love and care for. {{{{{Tess}}}}}
Joined: Feb 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 69 Karma: 6
Re: Final Break « Reply #7 on Aug 15, 2010, 7:59pm »
Glad you got out, Tess, that's first and foremost. Your husband sounds like a nice guy; an abuser in every way, a real "capitalist/opportunist" (looking to cash in on your auto accident-good job), and still finds time for a little internet porn on the side. What's not to love (sarcasm).
Now, for my questions: Could you have arranged for another form of birth control, ie. the pill, patches, etc. - something that your husband wouldn't have known about instead of having to tell him about wanting a tubal? Or maybe with his money and influence of being an attorney, he had people report to him about your comings and goings?
Secondly, in regards to you having a horrible time for 5 months after one of your pregnancies (when you were carrying crushed ice with you everywhere you went), what was that about? Were you allowed to get checked by a doc?
What was your background (education/work) before you married your husband? Was he like this before-hand or did he morph into a hyper-religious creep and psycho as time went on?
Botttom line, Tess, is that you're out. Your husband reminds me of control freak that Julia Roberts was married to in "Sleeping With the Enemy". It doesn't surprise me that he's had you in and out of court many times. He knows how to use the system to play the game. Being a lawyer gives him the upper-hand. Rest assured that he will pay his karmic dues when the time is right. There is no way to escape from what one puts out. Whatever he's put out will come back to him ten-fold. Count on that.
Joined: Aug 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 72 Karma: 5
Re: Final Break « Reply #8 on Aug 15, 2010, 8:40pm »
Thank you for not only having the courage to not only leave a bad situation, but also for having the guts to share it with others. It couldn't have been easy to relive those horrible events. You are a hero.
The world needs to learn about these destructive philosophies with their spiritual abuse.
Re: Final Break « Reply #9 on Aug 15, 2010, 10:55pm »
Thanks for your messages of support and encouragement! I had thought that as long as I was mad at my ex and still being tortured via the court system I would not be able to get enough "emotional distance" to write my story. But he will never quit, so my story needs to be told NOW, while the Duggars are grinning gamely on TV and the disease of the Talibornagain keeps spreading. Every story we tell is some other woman's stepping stone to sanity, telling her: look to us, we came out the other side, you are not crazy or sinful, and it really did all happen, just the way you remember it!
In answer to your question, maicde, about seeing a doctor, I absolutely was not free to privately see a doctor about anything. We never had any money because Nate barely worked, so even when we had insurance (as we did at this time, but usually didn't) he thought copays were a waste of money unless someone was horribly ill. My ex would have demanded to know what was wrong with me and why I was wasting "his" money. He would have seen the patch, would have found the pills, would have demanded copies of the medical records, would have raised mortal holy hell and bullied me into getting rid of the birth control.
This, of course, was only an issue once I changed my views. For a long time I was a devoted brainwashed Quiverfull adherent believing that God was opening and closing my womb. "God" opened this womb a lot oftener than my health could tolerate, however, and did not shut it when I prayed for Him to give me a break and let me heal. It was a rough road back to any kind of faith.
As for my background, I was college educated but gave up my dreams of becoming a teacher in order to give birth to "arrows" for my husband's "quiver" and home school them all. I considered myself very conservative and anti-feminist when I was 20.
Re: Final Break « Reply #10 on Aug 16, 2010, 1:02am »
You are an excellent story-teller and of course your story is compelling.
Regarding emotional distance--it helps but not much. To write it you have to feel it all over again anyway, so it doesn't matter much when you start. You're so right, it is urgent now to get this stuff out there while the Duggars are trying to sway public opinion to at the least, seeing QF as harmless, and at best (in their eyes), enticing others to consider it.
Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 18 Karma: 1
Re: Final Break « Reply #12 on Aug 16, 2010, 8:16am »
I have a question about the pastors who told Nate he was an abuser. Was this the type of church where it would be normal for a pastor to call a spade a spade in the abuse department, or would they normally ignore abuse but this was so obvious that even they couldn't get away with ignoring it?
Joined: Feb 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 69 Karma: 6
Re: Final Break « Reply #13 on Aug 16, 2010, 9:03am »
Tess, thank you for answering my questions; what you're saying makes absolute sense to me. It's hard to believe that slavery exists in the U.S., yet it does. For the most part, it seems like it's legitimized by fundamentalist religion. Christian fundmentalism seems to be somewhat similiar to Islamic fundamentalism and it's a slippery slope leading to Christian Taliban type laws for women. No independence to control one's own body or mind, instead subservience at all times, and if not, then there is punishment. Like I said, it's hard to believe that this is tolerated in the U.S., all under the guise of "religious freedom."
Thank you for answering the other questions too. I am so sorry that you had to suffer for those months not knowing what was going on with you because you weren't allowed to see a doctor. All I can say is that I'm so happy for you that you chose freedom, that he didn't suck every single fiber of your own critical thinking out of you. Good on you for holding on tight for your sanity and for your freedom and your children's freedom.
I truly look forward to reading more about your story. Thank you for sharing.
Re: Final Break « Reply #15 on Aug 16, 2010, 9:44am »
Ugh, I can only imagine hearing those words as a child... my great fear growing up was that I would somehow lose my mother and be stuck with my father. Something tells me your kids would have had a similar attitude.
Re: Final Break « Reply #16 on Aug 16, 2010, 11:35am »
Cant you file this under harassment, Tess? Get a lawyer and have him do a cease and desist? Get a restraining order? You'd think someone would recognize the pattern by now.
Cant you file this under harassment, Tess? Get a lawyer and have him do a cease and desist? Get a restraining order? You'd think someone would recognize the pattern by now.
'cause cease and desists and restraining orders are soooo incredibly effective innit.
Tess is writing her story in the past tense. Meaning we don't know the whole thing, and probably admonitions about how she should've though to file a complaint are unhelpful.
Re: Final Break « Reply #18 on Aug 16, 2010, 1:15pm »
This isn't for Tess, but for anyone else who is reading who might be in a similar situation:
Planned Parenthood offers sliding-scale medical services for women: prenatal, gynecological, birth control, STD testing, etc. They'll take cash if that's what you have and they will take a fake name, as well. There may be other local health services, too, that offer sliding scale services - here in my neighborhood we have People's Health Clinic, and the YWCA also refers people to private practitioners who take sliding scale patients.
If you have no income of your own and no access to your partner's money for health care, the answer for "what is your income" is $0. If it's not a public agency you don't have to disclose your husband's income if you can't access it. They'll understand. Abusive men who don't allow their wives access to money are unfortunately not rare.
Cant you file this under harassment, Tess? Get a lawyer and have him do a cease and desist? Get a restraining order? You'd think someone would recognize the pattern by now.
A lititgant may file as many petitions to the court as he wants. A lot of judges, however, may fine a party for abusing the court system if the litigant files frivolous petitions or files petitions for purposes of harassment.
Tess, you may think that your ex has the upper hand because he's an attorney, but you mentioned that he didn't work very much while you were together. Most attorneys I know work their buns off. Therefore, he may not be a very good attorney. Funny how he's working really hard @ harassing you.
I thought I read in your story that you lived in Virginia. Now, I understand that Virginia has a very conservative Attorney General. He's a darling of the religious right, but one good thing I can say about AG Cuccinelli is that he's got ZERO tolerance for abuse of women! You might want to contact the AG's office and find out if there's anything that you can do. Tell the folks at the AG's office that your ex used to abuse you when you were together and now he's abusing the court system to hurt you.
BTW it's true that Cuccinelli has zero tolerance for domestic abuse. Remember that UVA lacrosse player who was murdered by her psycho ex-boyfriend? Well I heard that the AG is asking for the death penalty, even though the defendant comes from a very wealthy family!
Cant you file this under harassment, Tess? Get a lawyer and have him do a cease and desist? Get a restraining order? You'd think someone would recognize the pattern by now.
'cause cease and desists and restraining orders are soooo incredibly effective innit.
Tess is writing her story in the past tense. Meaning we don't know the whole thing, and probably admonitions about how she should've though to file a complaint are unhelpful.
There is absolutely no need to be asinine or rude to me, km. She said that he would never stop, therefor, my question was completely valid, and your response completely out of line. I said CANT you, not COULDNT you, which is PRESENT tense, not PAST tense. This is high school stuff.
Are you Tess? I thought you were km.. thats what your handle says, at least. Furthermore, you are not in a position to tell others what to ask, or how to talk to others.
Manners would behoove you.
I have been waiting for Tess's story to air since I saw the announcement on the homepage, and I should not have to curb my honest, heartfelt questions for a woman who has suffered for fear of some angry little woman hiding behind a computer screen trying her best to police me because she somehow feels like she should be able to tell others what to say.
Please be aware that whatever you have to say to me from this point on will be ignored, because you have time and time again, proven yourself hostile for no apparent reason, fancying yourself as some sort of authority on everything, who therefor has a right to police everyone on everything. You do not. Redirect your anger on those who are deserving of it, those that did the initial harm on you, not everyone else. I refuse to waste my time on you.
Be aware that you are one of the chief reasons that I do not post on here very much - for bullshit just like this.
Re: Final Break « Reply #21 on Aug 16, 2010, 4:30pm »
I’ve been thinking about this since it was first posted. I can’t stop thinking about it, it was so powerful and well written. Tess, thank you for sharing this very painful period of your life with us. You’ve shown such courage, and others cannot help but be inspired and encouraged in their own lives as well.
I notice that you have titled this first part ‘Final Break’, which causes me to think you are going to let us know what led up to this in future parts. I hope you do. I think it is so important to understand the germination of these things and not just their spectacularly explosive endings. I mean, no one goes into a relationship expecting things to go badly, to be emotionally and or physically abused and isolated. No one envisions standing before their beautiful little children, berated for being a bad mother and banished from their home and lives for ‘rebellion’. The betrayal of all the love and hope for the future that was promised at the beginning of the relationship – it’s devastating. And it’s usually so insidious, a little step at a time, until one feels one has lived with it forever and that life is simply to be gotten on with and endured as best one can. I think it’s hard for anyone who hasn’t been through that process and come out the other end to realize how easily one’s life can disappear into the quicksand of a miserable and abusive marriage. Like the frog who doesn’t realize until it’s too late that he is being boiled to death. Sometimes we just stew miserably along until we have children whom the abuser has no compunction about using as hostages against us.
In a way it’s a blessing that he reacted so badly to your pastors trying to counsel him and to your decision to refuse further pregnancies. That he was so adamant in his refusal to change or cooperate, so smug in his biblical correctness and was threatening to do whatever it took to 'win' and be in control that week, because it gave you the motivation you needed to make the break and take the kids and get out of there. Sometimes it takes something dramatic to really jar us into action when our usual response to an awful situation is to adapt and deny and try to make it work and hope for the best.
There is one question I have: What in blue blazes is ‘spiritual adultery’? That’s a fascinating accusation to receive. Not to you at the time of course, but I marvel at the term.
"Those who eat their fill speak to the hungry of the wonderful times to come. Those who lead the country to the abyss call ruling too difficult for ordinary men."
Re: Final Break « Reply #22 on Aug 16, 2010, 5:27pm »
Oh, I'll answer questions as best I can, and I'm not offended by any queries. Nikita guessed the structure of the story! I begin with the prologue describing the break, then I go back to the beginning and explain it all, including how I got sick, what was wrong with me, and how in the world I accomplished that Houdini-like vanishing act on that July day with no transportation and broken ribs!
I'm assuming that rosiegirl means why don't I file a harassment suit NOW, as opposed to why didn't I go to court back then and sue for the right to get my tubes tied. There is no cause in Virginia for general all-purpose harassment. If my ex litigates over the children and child support nonstop, with occasional suits over defamation of character and whatnot, he is assumed to have a legitimate interest and excuse to drag me into court an unlimited number of times. There is no statute in Virginia anywhere for "enough petitions already." We don't have a vexatious litigator statute (few states do) and the "right to avail yourself of the system" is unlimited. Federal harassment suits have nothing to do with private family matters but are always workplace issues (sexual harassment). I have also been arrested more than 50 times but there's nothing illegal in Virginia about taking out dozens of criminal show causes against someone for violating visitation orders either. It's simply not considered harassment. Not to mention, what if you filed a harassment suit and got fifty motions and subpoenas in the mail from the defendant? Motion to dismiss, motion to transfer venue to where he lives, motion for sanctions against you, subpoena for your bank and medical records, 250 "discovery" questions for you to answer and a five-day deposition at which you have to appear, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. A harassment suit against somebody like my ex would triple the legal harassment!
Restraining orders do not keep someone from suing you. If your ex wants to stay in your face by filing complaints in court, in Virginia, he has an absolute right to do so, forever.
Rosa, thanks so much for the info on Planned Parenthood (for the sakes of any who may be secretly reading this) but the fact still remains that my ex controlled every move I made and I would have been terrified that he would find out. Plus, what was I going to do with all the kids while I had an IUD inserted or got a Depo-Provera shot?
Joined: Aug 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 72 Karma: 5
Re: Final Break « Reply #23 on Aug 16, 2010, 7:51pm »
Hi again, Tess.
I'm an attorney licensed in the District of Columbia. Superior Court Judges in Washington, DC have very little patience for frivolous litigation. It clogs up the courts, adds to a judge's workload, and consequently costs the state government money. It's true that courts cannot restrict access to petitioners lightly. So judges get to see petitions written in crayon by litigants with mental illness, etc. When a litigant files dozens of frivolous or harassing suits, a judge can institute fines.
I'm not surprised that there's no statutory law prohibiting frivolous or onerous litigation. I wouldn't be surprised, however, that there's Virginia state case law which allows a judge to fine a litigant who files motions just to harass.
On the bright side (if there is a bright side), I guarantee you that the judge presiding over this case thinks that your ex is a horse's a**. All of the motions that your ex files makes more work for the judge and it means less time that s/he has for sleeping, eating, playing golf, etc. I know that the judge probably has a law clerk to sift through the paperwork initially, but the judge has to read these things at least ONCE. And these motions don't exactly read like thriller novels, even for someone trained in the law.
So I can almost guarantee that your judge dislikes your ex, even though s/he acts impartial. One rule I've learned is that you never p*ss off the judge. It takes a minute to ruin a judge's impression of a litigant, and the litigant may never regain his good reputation.
'cause cease and desists and restraining orders are soooo incredibly effective innit.
Tess is writing her story in the past tense. Meaning we don't know the whole thing, and probably admonitions about how she should've though to file a complaint are unhelpful.
There is absolutely no need to be asinine or rude to me, km. She said that he would never stop, therefor, my question was completely valid, and your response completely out of line. I said CANT you, not COULDNT you, which is PRESENT tense, not PAST tense. This is high school stuff.
Are you Tess? I thought you were km.. thats what your handle says, at least. Furthermore, you are not in a position to tell others what to ask, or how to talk to others.
Manners would behoove you.
I have been waiting for Tess's story to air since I saw the announcement on the homepage, and I should not have to curb my honest, heartfelt questions for a woman who has suffered for fear of some angry little woman hiding behind a computer screen trying her best to police me because she somehow feels like she should be able to tell others what to say.
Please be aware that whatever you have to say to me from this point on will be ignored, because you have time and time again, proven yourself hostile for no apparent reason, fancying yourself as some sort of authority on everything, who therefor has a right to police everyone on everything. You do not. Redirect your anger on those who are deserving of it, those that did the initial harm on you, not everyone else. I refuse to waste my time on you.
Be aware that you are one of the chief reasons that I do not post on here very much - for bullshit just like this.
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