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Please be careful.
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Post by Kidwell on Sept 12, 2012 5:08:50 GMT -5
you write a lot of hogwash my sister i hope your source of inspiration will stand with you when thetide turns around.For now you are free to write whatever suits you and your disciples on this page time will tell exactly where you get you inspiration
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Post by humbletigger on Oct 22, 2010 9:40:27 GMT -5
Reading this breaks my heart for you and your adult children, Tess. I am so sorry.
I hope that as your adult children grow more personally, they will be able to hear the truth of your words and forgive you. The rage an abused child feels takes time and therapy (validation) to start to lessen. I hope your adult children (and you too) are finding some helpful trauma therapy to deal with the PTSD. You were all incarcerated in a hostile hostage situation for years!
Of course you know these things, I am just reminding you of them. Your adult children needed to go through the steps of confrontation and expressing their anger in order to heal. That must have been excrutiatingly painful for you to endure. But once they are done with that, they will come back to wanting a relationship with their present day mother. At least, I want to believe they will attain that level of healing.
Trauma, the unwanted gift that keeps on giving. Blech.
For what it's worth, I think of you as a hero, amazingly resilient and courageous, for ever getting out at all!
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Post by defendantrising on Oct 22, 2010 8:24:33 GMT -5
Daniel and Jack are both still living and physically healthy. As for the rest, I tried my damnedest, and many times the people I turned to for help (police, social workers, therapists, and especially judges) seemed to be on Nate's side--not deliberately, just out of indifference, laziness, exhaustion, confusion (Nate never stops accusing me at top volume of being the "abusive" and "controlling" parent who has "brainwashed" the children) or sheer terror of Nate. You don't mess with Nate or he uses the courts to take you out, even if it takes him many years. And of course, there came days of reckoning in which huge enraged teenagers demanded to know why I "stood by" when they were little and helpless and "did nothing." The reckoning continues even now with the third child. Explanations (I was also like a child, I was being abused too, I was brainwashed, I can barely remember huge chunks of this time, I did protect you as best I could) are futile. I had a conversation with Dan a couple of years ago that went like this: "You could have called the police." "Your father is a cold, calculating snake. He would have taken one look at the police, done a mental calculation in .5 seconds, and said, 'oh, officers, I'm so glad you're here. Look what she has done to my children.' And I would have gone to jail. The next day, he would offer to let me see and nurse the baby if I told the authorities it was me who beat you. He would have bullied you into lying and testifying against me in criminal court. At best, you would have ended up in foster care, until he hounded the system into giving you back to him. I would rarely see any of you." "I refuse to believe that there was nothing you could have done." "I did do something. I left." "Too late, Mom. It was too late. Who married the bastard in the first place? Why are you so stupid?" We are at the place of my deepest pain. I may be able to write about this when I get that far and I may not. I have come to believe that there are so many Nates and Tesses out there that it is a necessary sacrifice on my part to offer up this story, in the hopes that some children might grow up at least somewhat free-spirited, as my younger three are now, and that some women might find peace in their own souls, perhaps in middle or old age with a decent partner (or without one) even if they cannot save some or all of their children. Tess
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flah
New Member
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Post by flah on Oct 21, 2010 11:00:50 GMT -5
I went from Christian, to calling myself "little c" Christian to differentiate myself from the loud BIG C Christians, and now I just say I'm agnostic or even apostate, even though I still go to church. The Big C Christians, using fear and intimidation to force their own agendas, sadden me.
This story is just so sickening and chilling. PLEASE tell us your boys survived this, not just physically but mentally and spiritually.
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jo
Junior Member
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Post by jo on Oct 20, 2010 17:10:07 GMT -5
Totally not offended here. I also refuse to use the term Christian anymore. I refuse to associate with what that word means. Ironically, I still believe in both the goodness and the deity of a Jewish Carpenter. I just don't think those who call themselves his followers even begin to reflect what he was about.
My kids have taken to beggint to go to church again. I've searched my heart and my soul on how to handle this. DH wanted to go to the large Vineyard, and I refuse. I once had an argument in small group at a Vineyard on whether there was ever a female Apostle...because Joan is somehow not a female name and the female pronoun used in the Greek is a mistake when she is referred to in Acts. I've also seen Tripp espoused by Vineyard churchs, far too much subjegation of women. DH's thought was that its large, its generic and we could listen to good music while the kids had a fairly tame children's program.
Its also Evangelical Christian, teaches subjugation of women and zero tolerance of homosexuality. I won't teach my children hate. That's my bottom line.
So, I considered trying a large, Contemporary Methodist (Emergent if I could find it but there are none in our city) congregation. Yeah, I can't do it. I know the Methodists are traditionally more tolerant, more accepting of all people being equal. However, we're in the Bible belt and our last experience with the Methodist wasn't exactly all that, nor a cup of tea.
I've made the decision if the children want to return to church for community then the only place I'm willing to try is Unitarian. They can get religious community and we can leave the garbage called Christianity at the door.
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Post by whiteclover on Oct 20, 2010 16:54:32 GMT -5
No, you're not alone.
I've been adverse to calling myself a "Christian" for a few years . . . partly because of not wanting to be associated with narrow-minded judgmentalism, but also because it has SO many meanings worldwide that it's been rendered meaningless.
The "Christians" in my world are highly offended. I'm sure it's the unpardonable sin, as they see my view as denying Christ Himself.
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Post by humbletigger on Oct 20, 2010 16:40:40 GMT -5
That is my beef too semperstarla! It should be called Biblianity instead of Christianity, because their favorite adjective is "biblical" rather than "Christ-like". Also, the words/life of Christ have been demoted to a mere 1/16 th of the faith, in keeping with their worship of the OT and epistles as every bit as relevant as the Son of God. Am I the only Christian in the world perplexed by that? My son doesn't even want to call himself a Christian because of it, but wants a different word to show that it's Jesus he loves and wants to emulate, NOT American Christianity.
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Post by semperstarla on Oct 20, 2010 13:28:30 GMT -5
hopewell, that makes me sad, because I know how true it is. I have met so many kind loving NON-Christians, and so many Christians who are just mean and twisted.
I really believe that more people would be interested in Jesus if it werent for all those darn Christians out there giving him a bad name.
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Post by hopewell on Oct 20, 2010 10:20:50 GMT -5
Chilling IS the word here. Naturally HE can watch tv, surf the Net, look at porn. He is God's greatest creation: A Man. I hope this asshole got prison time, but I bet not...........Glad you are away from him. I hope you got all your children too.
A friend once remarked--"why is it always the guy wearing a Promise Keepers shirt, with a fishy on his car who beats his wife?"
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Post by journey on Oct 19, 2010 20:05:53 GMT -5
Wow. That is amazing. Thank you for sharing it with us.
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Post by maclasch on Oct 19, 2010 17:22:46 GMT -5
I am so amazed by your story. I came out of ATI, IBLP, Children's Institute, etc... My family was lucky enough to escape before things got too bad (our family was always the odd one out anyway, as we were not holy enough, though we tried very hard). My mom always wanted to be a part of the quiverfull movement, as a lot of the women in our church were (peer pressure was actually a big thing to my parents, and still is), but had a hysterectomy after she had my younger sister, so wasn't able to. However, we still had a pretty large family with 5 of us kids (but we were blended). I think I must have rebelled against it from infancy. I quit going to church at age 15 and with it dumped anything "Gothardistic" from my life. My parents, clearly were not happy, but I was stubborn and I did what I had to do. Luckily, I did not suffer the fate of my older siblings who were all kicked out when secular music/media was discovered in their room (or they started dating). At that point my parents were starting to drift from the Gothard lifestyle as well (though they still like some of his teachings even to this day). I'm mostly in shock at your ability to remember so much, and so vividly. I must have blocked a lot of my experiences out, because I'm aware of the trauma, but I just can't think of it in detail, it's so far away from me now. Reading your story brought back memories and I'm only now realizing the severity of what I was brought up in, and how lucky I was to escape. I'm still dealing with psychological issues from that time in my life (anxiety, depression) and I'm sure I would benefit from therapy. Thanks for telling your story. I can't wait to hear the rest...
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Post by humbletigger on Oct 19, 2010 17:03:03 GMT -5
I am blown away that you had to go through a horrid labor while your lazy-ass husband was watching TV and on the computer. The argument for forced castration would apply in this case. Agreeing with Erica again! DR, sending much love your way! Having just read your entry, I am more or less speechless. I will write more later. Tapati and semperstarla, Yes, some batterers can get help, and those suffering from PTSD are in that group. Then there are the psycho/sociopathic/sadists like DRs husband. The only help for them, I fear, is not for them but for the rest of us- their demise.
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Post by krwordgazer on Oct 19, 2010 15:04:32 GMT -5
So hard for you and those poor kids. Wishing you and them much healing and continuing recovery. Your writing is very powerful because it's so understated. We catch a glimpse of Nate watching TV while you're in terrible pain, and you don't need to tell us any more.
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phatchick
Junior Member
Medicated for Your Protection
Posts: 80
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Post by phatchick on Oct 19, 2010 13:24:29 GMT -5
Zen hugs going out.
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Post by semperstarla on Oct 19, 2010 13:14:31 GMT -5
Hey, new here, I just wanted to say that I relate to feeling out the other person's mood's, gaging constantly, making sure not to set him off.
My husband struggles with PTSD as a result of his military service, and before he was on treatment/found a good med cocktail, I spend large amounts of time and energy tip toeing around his "spells".
Anyways, I also know how good it feels to not have to base everything on the emotional whims of your spouse, and how freeing and good it feels to see that his problems, are not my problems.
It feels so good to be a partner in my marriage now, versus a 24/7 psych nurse, who was always on call.
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Post by tapati on Oct 19, 2010 11:49:28 GMT -5
Interesting how pornography just happened to keep showing up addressed to Nate, and how he had to go away to "destroy" it.
I always make a distinction between batterers who can change and those who can't or won't. He's clearly in the latter category. He's obviously a sadist and probably a sociopath.
I am so glad you all got away. The periods of memory loss are chilling.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 19, 2010 10:18:03 GMT -5
I am blown away that you had to go through a horrid labor while your lazy-ass husband was watching TV and on the computer. The argument for forced castration would apply in this case.
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Post by jael on Oct 19, 2010 7:52:55 GMT -5
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Post by usotsuki on Oct 18, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -5
All I meant was that Paul meant something specific by what he said there in the passage in Galatians Autumn cited. I totally agree that the New Testament does not teach dominionism, and she's absolutely right that the Scriptures teach that people cannot and should not be forced into beliefs. But that is not what this particular passage in Galatians is about; Paul is talking specifically about a group of people who were saying that non-Jewish converts to Christianity had to keep the whole Jewish law in order to be accepted by Christ. To which he calls them fools and says that group of people was "turning the gospel upside-down" (1.6-7), and that any such person should be "anathema" (1.8, repeated for emphasis in 1.9). I get the feeling he didn't like that approach very much and would be very annoyed at some of the fundie groups out there today.
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Post by krwordgazer on Oct 18, 2010 11:08:41 GMT -5
Pollypinks, I'm not sure why you addressed that last to me, as though we were in disagreement about these issues; we are not. I agree with everything you just said. All I meant was that Paul meant something specific by what he said there in the passage in Galatians Autumn cited. I totally agree that the New Testament does not teach dominionism, and she's absolutely right that the Scriptures teach that people cannot and should not be forced into beliefs. But that is not what this particular passage in Galatians is about; Paul is talking specifically about a group of people who were saying that non-Jewish converts to Christianity had to keep the whole Jewish law in order to be accepted by Christ. I advocate for reading each passage of Scripture in its whole context and not adding meanings that weren't originally intended by the author or understood by the first audience. The historical, cultural and literary context must be taken into account for each and every passage, or we are doing the same thing the fundamentalists do. But Autumn, I completely agree that when the writings are read as a whole, they are against Dominionism.
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Post by pollypinks on Oct 18, 2010 8:11:55 GMT -5
For krwordgazer, and then I'll shut up since I've talked too much today. We should be practicing separation of church and state. Evangelicals prance around touting just the opposite from our founding fathers, when it's a total lie. Many things have and will change over time, and the fathers knew this. Like, we don't have slaves anymore, at least legal ones. And we are still fighting for women's rights in the workplace, as we should be. I get crazy when the religious right preaches from the PULPIT how to vote, how to force the nation to become Christian, and how to put down those who aren't like them. I sat in a Bible study once and listened to the teacher say God only hears the prayers of Christians. I got up and left, like, some dude in Africa who's never heard of Christ is starving and falls on the ground and calls out to God for help. God doesn't hear that? Man, these people are just gosh dang dangerous. Pro life? Only until it's born, and then those who need extra programs or extra help can expect the right to vote to end those. Remember when Cheney was in congress, about a thousand years ago? I remember. He was one of two congressmen who voted against Head Start. We need be pro life in all aspects of life, not just for the embryo. Until these people start taking note of that, I'm pro choice, or, adoption, all the way, sister. Oh, and let's be sure to keep millions and millions of people away from the doctor, or, send them to the E.R. where you and I will suck up the cost next time we go.
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