jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 19, 2009 13:07:52 GMT -5
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Post by tapati on May 19, 2009 14:37:01 GMT -5
Excellent. And just like we've been saying:
It sounds like these books should be added to our growing list of resources.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on May 19, 2009 14:55:36 GMT -5
I followed this link posted by "Happy Promise Keeper" in the comments section: communities.kintera.org/FamilyLifeBlog/forums/54790/ShowThread.aspx#54790Check it out ~ it made me sick to see the way these Believers try to explain the horrible abuse Sheri suffered by blaming the woman. Of course, it has to be her fault because there's no way it could be a problem with the bible teaching. Here's one quote in particular that I think is a classic example of how loyalty to a religious ideal arrests human reasoning until they can no longer clearly discern right from wrong: One cannot discount that he wanted to be in church with his family and apparently his mother wa sin the church. Frankly, she divorced him, saying she didn't really care for him anymore. So why would anyone expect that he was concerned about her feelings anymore? I'm not saying she didn't have good reason to not be concerned. However, divorce is also a pretty hurtful thing, even if it's a consequence, so one cannot discount he experienced either, even if it was a logical consequence of his actions.
One has to be pretty angry to bring up something after 11 months and seek a conviction.
However, I don't see how one would want someone to NOT be a church where you think you are being fed spiritually? How could anyone not want the father or mother of their child to NOT have access to the very same spiritual nourishment you are getting?
It's a sad situation all around. It's sad that he abused her, it's sad that apparently the church dropped the ball, it's sad that it appears she is unwilling or unable to forgive. It's sad that he doesn't see his child.
One other thought. Regarding the counseling, and admonishing her to not further mention the assault. I guess I'm torn. How long can or should someone hold on to something like that? Like I said, she held on to that anger and had him arrested 11 months after the fact.Ugh. Where to start? This stuff boggles the mind ~ and I wouldn't believe such confusion could be possible except that I was totally there ~ totally defending the indefensible in my efforts to protect the integrity of "God's Word."
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Post by arietty on May 19, 2009 19:39:50 GMT -5
I am just SO DISGUSTED reading this stuff.
Really it is all about control. The man MUST NOT lose his woman. That is why the church is so freaked out about divorce. If they sympathize with one woman and let her step free why who knows how many will follow? Plenty of men in leadership knowing they treat their wives just as badly as a woman who comes to them for help says she has been treated.
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jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 19, 2009 19:41:29 GMT -5
Here's a really sick article by Family Life on marriage. I bring it up because the link Vickie followed was to a Family Life site. www.familylife.com/site/apps/nlnet/content3.aspx?c=dnJHKLNnFoG&b=3578719&content_id={F532812D-A7F3-49A5-8BA0-87F73AA678C2}¬oc=1The link may not take you directly to the article. You may have to paste it into the address bar. It's an article called Do you have a One-Way Marriage?I consider myself a committed Christian (though not an evangelical one) and I was horrified by this woman's testimony. I consider her testimony female masochism, not Christianity. There's a lot of crap being promoted in the Christian community as supposedly being the will of God, when it's actually just someone's emotional illness.
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jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 19, 2009 21:17:35 GMT -5
To many worldly men, women are primarily sex objects.
To many religious men, women are primarily servants.
And both primarily want women to be submissive.
Wouldn't it be nice if these same worldly and religious men looked at women as primarily human beings? They look at themselves that way, why not us?
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on May 19, 2009 22:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by rosa on May 19, 2009 22:15:00 GMT -5
There's a pretty common saying in the feminist blogs, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them."
This - "divorce is also a pretty hurtful thing" - followed by this - "How long can or should someone hold on to something like that? " is a prime example. Divorce, which hurt his feelings, is presented as a bigger harm than physical assault.
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jennie
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by jennie on May 20, 2009 10:18:55 GMT -5
This is the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to stay in Christian circles anymore.
Jennie
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jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 20, 2009 18:19:01 GMT -5
Vyckie,
Maybe it's better you didn't find the article. It's truly disturbing. Why female masochism is glorified as the will of God is beyond me. As a Christian I find it truly evil. Of course, some Christians will find me truly evil for believing this point of view is evil.
And yes Rosa, women are afraid men will kill them.
And yes Jenny, this kind of teaching does make people want to stay away from Christians. It has made me much more selective about the Christians I will associate with anymore.
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Post by arietty on May 20, 2009 20:11:22 GMT -5
This is the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to stay in Christian circles anymore. Jennie Yes. I find it increasingly difficult because of this kind of stuff. There I will be, perfectly at home with some christian women and BAM something like this will suddenly come up. It's got to the point where I have just two choices: sit there in silence or be contentious. After a time people don't listen to you if you are too contentious so I try and save it up for something worthwhile. I am also ever aware that being divorced means people think I have a bias (which is true!) and that means some may find it easy to dismiss me. But that's only the tip of my not jelling with christian teachings any more.
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Post by kisekileia on May 21, 2009 0:19:51 GMT -5
This is one of the times when I realize how privileged I am to have three churches with rainbow stripes on their signs (indicating that they are LGBTQ-positive) within a five-minute walk of my university campus. The one I go to has been doing AIDS support work since the '80s, and I don't doubt that women who leave abusive husbands are supported there.
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kay
Junior Member
A fool hath no dialogue within himself, the first thought carrieth him without the reply of a second
Posts: 75
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Post by kay on May 21, 2009 11:59:26 GMT -5
Grrr...the response of the church and the lack of support for these women really makes me upset. Each story I read like this just breaks my heart.
I'm still debating whether I want to follow the forum link to the FamilyLife website or not...
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jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 21, 2009 18:22:03 GMT -5
Here's a good pro-woman Christian website. It's www.equalitycentral.comHere's a good resource for Christian egalitarian material: www.cbeinternational.orgThere are Christians out there who respect women, you just have to go looking for them.
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jlp
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by jlp on May 21, 2009 18:23:11 GMT -5
Kay,
If you do go to the Family Life website - if the comments sections are still open make sure you comment. These people need to know that not everyone supports their views.
We need to stand up to these people!
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Post by sadtoseemisconcept on May 28, 2009 2:09:02 GMT -5
It seriously amazes me seeing the prejudice of obviously biased persons on this board. For a board that promotes "freedom" of females, all I see is imprisonment of women by hatred and bitterness.
All I see is misconceptions of what you all "think" Christianity is about and what you "think" Christianity promotes when, in all reality all you know is the limited circle that you live. Is it God's fault that the backwards retard you married was a bastard? Or was it God's fault that the Church you may have attended was led by some Evangelical twit who misinterprets the bible for profit?
As a dedicated Orthodox Church advocate, I am amazed at the ignorance on this board.
If you actually read the Bible, you would see how sacred and honored women are in Christianity. We honor the Mother, the Virgin Mary and her Strength. There are many females saints including Mary of Egypt, who was a prostitute but was forgiven for her wrong doings.
If you want to promote female freedom, educate yourself before you dare misguiding a new generation of females who are taught by people such as yourselves that they can have sex if they want to, and that following a religion is bad.
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Post by coleslaw on May 28, 2009 6:43:02 GMT -5
You would almost think someone tried to work the virgin/whore dichotomy in there on purpose.
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Post by grievousangle on May 28, 2009 9:20:58 GMT -5
[effluvia snipped] If you actually read the Bible, you would see how sacred and honored women are in Christianity. We honor the Mother, the Virgin Mary and her Strength. There are many females saints including Mary of Egypt, who was a prostitute but was forgiven for her wrong doings. The "Mother"=female as reproductive host. The "Virgin"=female's suitability to become a reproductive host. It always devolves to sexual roles when it comes to women, doesn't it? If you want to promote female freedom, educate yourself before you dare misguiding a new generation of females who are taught by people such as yourselves that they can have sex if they want to, and that following a religion is bad. Sex again, huh? Why this strong focus on sex behavior and roles? What is with that with you guys? I would be embarrassed.
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Post by grievousangle on May 28, 2009 9:55:15 GMT -5
I was reading some of the fora over there at the family life website and some of the stories from the women there are just heartbreaking. It is almost as if Christianity infantalizes the women at some point in their marriages and reduces them to the point that they have to spend hours of every day imploring the big man in the sky who is not there to prod some dude to do right, not cheat, not abuse, communicate, help them parent, get a job, do some work in the house, on and on and on. Patriarchy has these women right where it wants them and it makes me sick to see it. If there really were a god she would would destroy the patriarchy as a first order of business. Here are some of the titles of the posts. I urge you to read some of them to see what the lack of agency and of control over one's own life can do to a human being. communities.kintera.org/FamilyLifeBlog/forums/980/ShowForum.aspxIs it wrong if we are seperated?[sic] Need your prayers Marriage in Serious Trouble he won't initiate sex Domestic Violence Yuck! I'm still a girl! I'm still a girl! I'm still a girl! Confession: I'm NOT a SAHM He said God would approve of him divorcing me!!!!! Lingerie Patriarchy is evil.
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tl
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by tl on May 28, 2009 13:15:08 GMT -5
You are correct. Patriarchy is evil. Patriarchy is not supported by God or Scriptures. It is a man made system whose purpose is to promote males. God's purpose is to improve, support, heal, assist, empower, etc. individuals both male and female.
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Post by krwordgazer on May 28, 2009 14:11:17 GMT -5
It seriously amazes me seeing the prejudice of obviously biased persons on this board. For a board that promotes "freedom" of females, all I see is imprisonment of women by hatred and bitterness. All I see is misconceptions of what you all "think" Christianity is about and what you "think" Christianity promotes when, in all reality all you know is the limited circle that you live. Is it God's fault that the backwards retard you married was a bastard? Or was it God's fault that the Church you may have attended was led by some Evangelical twit who misinterprets the bible for profit? As a dedicated Orthodox Church advocate, I am amazed at the ignorance on this board. If you actually read the Bible, you would see how sacred and honored women are in Christianity. We honor the Mother, the Virgin Mary and her Strength. There are many females saints including Mary of Egypt, who was a prostitute but was forgiven for her wrong doings. If you want to promote female freedom, educate yourself before you dare misguiding a new generation of females who are taught by people such as yourselves that they can have sex if they want to, and that following a religion is bad. Sadtoseemisconcept, I am a Christian, and all I can say is, you are way out of line here. Stop hitting people over the head with religion, and back off until you can learn to show some actual compassion for those who are hurting. And there is no such thing as an unbiased viewpoint. Yours is just as biased as everyone else's.
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Post by grandmalou on May 28, 2009 18:07:29 GMT -5
Krwordgazer, you said: "Sadtoseemisconcept, I am a Christian, and all I can say is, you are way out of line here. Stop hitting people over the head with religion, and back off until you can learn to show some actual compassion for those who are hurting. And there is no such thing as an unbiased viewpoint. Yours is just as biased as everyone else's. " Thank you, Krwordgazer, and hallelujah! Grandmalou (who has also gotten out of line lately ) Ouch! My bad...
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Post by sadtoseemisconcept on May 28, 2009 21:15:39 GMT -5
krwordgazer - I'm hitting people over the head with religion? Thats funny because all I said was that you should inform yourself about what Christianity really is, as opposed to all they've been exposed to. Thats hitting them over the head? *chuckles*
grievousangle - You can pick and choose which lines you want to read all you want, which is funny because all of the "males" that you complain about seem to do the same thing. They follow 1 line in the bible and ignore the whole chapter. You can choose 1 line out of what I say and ignore the chapter. You're promoting down with a Patriarchy, yet you're promoting a Matriarchy...hypocrite much?
coleslaw - Same point, you can pick 1 apple out of the orchard thats rotten and condemn the orchard. Christianity teaches us to not judge mankind by 1 human or 1,000 but to love all of them unconditionally.
I challenge any of you to rebut that.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on May 28, 2009 21:30:59 GMT -5
I challenge any of you to rebut that. I "siriusly" urge members of this forum to ignore "sadtoseemisconcept" ~ we've really already have enough of this sort of "conversation" here on the NLQ forum ~ let's not have a repeat of that frustrating and pointless situation. Thanks all!
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Post by sadtoseemisconcept on May 28, 2009 22:00:55 GMT -5
Vick,
Why do you fear conversation? You have the same mentality and structure as any cult leader would have. You prey on the weak and vulnerable and manipulate them into believing what YOU want them to believe.
What makes you any difference then the men you speak so venomously about?
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