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Post by arietty on Dec 28, 2009 0:53:52 GMT -5
It's not patriarchy, it's not eugenics, it's autonomy and agency, those glorious words that do not get spoken near enough.Word. Welcome, corardens. Yep great post coradens. I am sick of ideology telling me what to do with my body, whether it's to have lots of babies for God or to not have any "extra" ones for the earth.
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Post by austin on Dec 29, 2009 11:10:05 GMT -5
Autonomy and agency - yes, those are two of the finest words in the English language for any woman, or even any human being.
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Post by justflyingin on Dec 30, 2009 9:59:50 GMT -5
f those battered bodies when there are SO MANY poor little babies and children in this world, who NEED parents? What the hell would be wrong with gathering up a quiverfull of those little ones? Nothing. That would be the ultimate in "true religion".... Looking after the fatherless.... I knew a lady who adopted something like 12 of these special needs kids. She's a "saint" in my book.
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Post by justflyingin on Dec 30, 2009 10:11:44 GMT -5
Post after post of very long, stream-of-consciousness style rants are not likely to be read thoroughly or at all. I'm just sayin'. I tried for awhile but I give up. I don't have that kind of time. Well said, tapati. Only one difference here... I didn't try past about 4 lines worth. Jane Doe. I don't know you, but your posts are long, stream of consciousness and you don't use the quote function. I don't even know where you fall in the whole realm of idealogy because I've not made it through even one of your long, long posts. My advice...shorten up and use the quote feature. That is why it's there!
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Post by margybargy on Dec 30, 2009 10:17:48 GMT -5
As to overpopulation I had two more kids AFTER I stopped being QF and a fundie. I had them because I wanted to. I couldn't care less about overpopulation. So sue me. Pretty much, it seems to me, when women have choices and chances and can self-determine their course of life, reproduction averages over the whole population very close to replacement rates, sometimes slightly above, sometimes slightly below. But it doesn't matter, really, because for every woman who wants a few more, there are other women who don't want any kids, and seriously, we *do* need SOME kids, and so the people who are childless by choice ought to be perfectly happy that other people choose differently. It's where birth control is NOT accessible, where ideologies FORCE women to not use it even if it may be accessible, that you have huge population explosions at a rate that is so quickly changing the population numbers that it is hard to adjust to. That can go the other way too, as when China decided to force it's one child rule BEFORE making birth control widely accessible and sex education widely accessible, or attacking social sexism, etc, they also created a population size that is changing so quickly as to probably cause significant social upheaval. So I'll sue the ideologues that try to make it the only choice, but I'll certainly not sue you! The problem comes when it's thought that EVERYBODY should do JUST as I do, instead of trusting people to make decisions that will be good for them, in their individual situations, and enabling them to have as many options to choose from as possible. QF is dangerous with respect to overpopulation because they DO press for EVERYONE to have many children, without options to stop if your personal situation for whatever reason makes it a bad idea to have more children. People who have large families for personal preference, without thinking it's necessary for god's blessing, when averaged over a society which includes many people who'd rather not have kids, are not relevant to overpopulation at all. I know I'm chiming in really late here. Just want to second what Jemand said. There's nothing wrong with an individual here and there having lots of kids. The problem comes if this were to happen on a large scale, which is the issue nimue was raising. Plus if it all comes down to choice, you're going to have a few people with no kids, a few people with lots of kids, and lots of people with 2-3 kids. I'm picturing a typical bell curve. And the more difficult and expensive it becomes to raise kids in a satisfactory manner, the fewer kids people will have.
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Post by grandmalou on Dec 31, 2009 5:18:33 GMT -5
f those battered bodies when there are SO MANY poor little babies and children in this world, who NEED parents? What the hell would be wrong with gathering up a quiverfull of those little ones? Nothing. That would be the ultimate in "true religion".... Looking after the fatherless.... I knew a lady who adopted something like 12 of these special needs kids. She's a "saint" in my book. Yes, that lady is truly a saint, isn't she? I so admire people like her! Back in the 50's when I was still a kid, my family spent two summers in New Mexico, where an aunt managed one of the Dean Kirk Trading Posts. Up the road from their store, was another trading post, managed by Mrs. Florence...the epitome of "looking after the fatherless". She looked to be well up into at least her 70's, but always smiling, always loving. One whole back room was wall-to-wall cribs and playpens, where she had little Native American children she adopted. Altogether, I remember someone saying she had raised 23, by herself, since she was widowed. Seems the local NA's had a belief that if a child was born with a deformity of any kind, or any sign of poor health, they were under a curse...and so they would move out of their hogan, lock stock and barrel, leaving that poor little person to starve to death or be carried off by wild animals. Very regularly Mrs. Florence would have one of her grown, adopted sons drive her out (she didn't drive) into the desert looking for abandoned hogans, and rescue these precious little people. As they grew, she worked at the post, looked after the little ones, and eventually sent them all off to college. Almost everyone of them came home to her, and helped her to raise more and more. If it were up to me to nominate anyone to sainthood, she would be my Number One, all time favorite example.
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