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Post by hopewell on Aug 9, 2010 14:43:58 GMT -5
Nancy Campbell, to me, come across as Tim Burton's version of Eleanor Roosevelt's demeanor and voice! Or the Spitting Image puppet of Margaret Thatcher! She's just "other worldly" in the extreme. Her dvd "family meal table" had a lot to do with me letting the kids eat where they want for much of last year!! She creeps me out big-time.
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Hillary
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"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
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Post by Hillary on Aug 9, 2010 19:59:27 GMT -5
Vyckie, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.
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Post by calluna on Aug 10, 2010 15:22:12 GMT -5
The main thing I was left with from the excerpt I just viewed was that she has that holy light of the true believer a la 'Conspiracy Theory'. Pure dedication to the fixed idea regardless of outside influences and whatever the cost to anyone around her. When applied to motherhood I imagine she is terrifying. A perfect motherhood martyr and saint. And you know what they say about living with saints. I think that was beautifully said, about what I was trying to convey.
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Post by arietty on Aug 10, 2010 22:48:14 GMT -5
Okay I have watched the Nancy Campbell video posted by Sierra in this thread (thank you Sierra).
She does not come across as weird AT ALL for what she is--Australian, christian, pentecostal woman in that age group. She is completely typical and I have heard many people who are even more exaggerated in mannerisms than she. Now I know you all want to watch this stuff and think it's psychopathic demons or whatever but you are incorrect. It's a misreading of cultural differences though I think there are similarities in some American pentecostals as well.
No one talks like this in the Reform churches! LOLOLOL
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Post by nikita on Aug 10, 2010 23:11:10 GMT -5
I didn't think women talked in the reform churches. ;D
I've heard that same tonal quality though in 'church voice' in all kinds of American churches from non denominational, evangelical, Lutheran, Catholic -- it's like a cloak descends and suddenly a perfectly normal sounding woman sounds like that with the exaggerated emphasis and intonations, etc.
I don't doubt that there are cultural differences at work here as well where Nancy Campbell is concerned. I mean look at Julia Child: she had the same OTT tonal quality and emphasis but no one thinks (I don't think anyone thinks) that she was creepy or demon possessed or a psychopath or anything. So it's not that. But when you combine it with Nancy's teachings and fixed belief system it ADDS to it in a creepy way. It makes it creepier to the outsider I guess. I think it's the whole package deal there, not just the speaking manner and voice.
I'm sorry if this offended you. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I think we just have such problems with this woman and her life and teachings that it spills over. You're right to call us out on it, to make us think further about where it's coming from.
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Post by homeoflove on Aug 10, 2010 23:27:28 GMT -5
I must say, I believe Serena's story is a cry for help. I think she knows she is in a desparate situation, but she doesn't know how to get out of it. She most likely doesn't have the emotional strength to even think about getting out of it (and probably not the physical strength either trying to care for that household in such conditions.)
She really needs a friend, someone who knows her personally who can assure her that she doesn't have to live in those conditions, and who has a strong shoulder to give her the emotional help she needs to start getting out of that situation. Someone who can tell her that she owes it to her own children to do better for them. Unfortunately, it obviously isn't going to be her husband, her parents, or her siblings--the ones who should care and should be helping her.
Poverty is one thing, living in totally unsanitary and unhealthful conditions is another. There is surely some kind of financial assistance available for her from the government (and she should take it, for her children's sake, if her husband's salary can't afford renting a small house. A house that doesn't billow carcinogens & toxic molds, a house that has access to running water and a safe form of heating in the winter. This is stuff that the vast majority of poor people in the US have. Of course, she would have to move off the compound, and that, she is obviously not emotionally ready to do.
Her article is a *big* cry for help, and I pray that she gets it.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 11, 2010 1:23:10 GMT -5
Now I know you all want to watch this stuff and think it's psychopathic demons or whatever but you are incorrect. I have to say arietty, I don't think it's helpful to dismiss people's opinions like that. While I do think the demon possession thing is going too far, the fact is that her demeanor and mannerisms strike some as being creepy. To write off valid opinions just because you don’t agree with them or, worse yet, to say that people are purposely looking to think badly of her, is very offensive.
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Post by arietty on Aug 11, 2010 1:58:38 GMT -5
I didn't say that at all valsa. I said Nancy Campbell is Australian. She comes across as Australian and she matches many other Australian christian women. It's read as "creepy" by people who don't have that cultural context. I'm filling in the cultural context for you.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 11, 2010 2:05:46 GMT -5
While I don't think I've seen an Australian Christian woman talk (at least, one's never been specifically pointed out to me), unless they're all severely socially stunted, I don't think what people are responding to is just her "Australian Christian"-ness.
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Post by km on Aug 11, 2010 7:20:18 GMT -5
Okay I have watched the Nancy Campbell video posted by Sierra in this thread (thank you Sierra). She does not come across as weird AT ALL for what she is--Australian, christian, pentecostal woman in that age group. She is completely typical and I have heard many people who are even more exaggerated in mannerisms than she. Now I know you all want to watch this stuff and think it's psychopathic demons or whatever but you are incorrect. It's a misreading of cultural differences though I think there are similarities in some American pentecostals as well. No one talks like this in the Reform churches! LOLOLOL I didn't realize she was Pentecostal. That does explain some of it, yes. ETA: And, again, she is not Australian. She's from New Zealand, or so says the Above Rubies site. For the most part, I get your frustration about American cultural practices being imposed as normative, as I know that happens all the time in US-centric spaces (And that this site is one since QF is a pretty US-centric movement.). However, I'm not sure that's what was going on here. I wasn't really put off by the sound of her voice as much as by the fact that she ignores other people in her presence. And I used the term "psychopathy" to encompass the cruel things she was saying about others, and the sense of joy she appeared to take in doing so (And because I don't personally put any stock in arguments about "demonic possession."). Obviously, I am not qualified to diagnose personality disorders, but "psychopathy" is one word that we have for people who take pleasure in harming others. So, I get what you're saying arietty, but I also think your call for cultural sensitivity would go further if you got the name of her country of origin right.
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Post by km on Aug 11, 2010 7:29:57 GMT -5
While I don't think I've seen an Australian Christian woman talk (at least, one's never been specifically pointed out to me), unless they're all severely socially stunted, I don't think what people are responding to is just her "Australian Christian"-ness. Do you mean "talk like that"? I'm assuming you don't mean you haven't heard Australian women talk at all... I don't think insults about being "socially stunted" are all that helpful either, for what it's worth.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 11, 2010 12:07:30 GMT -5
Nope, km, I meant "talk". I'm sure I probably have seen Australian (or New Zealand) Christian women talk somewhere before, but I couldn't point out to you who they were. Apparently, if it's just a cultural thing (which I doubt), they were a lot better at appearing "American" normal than Nancy is.
As for Nancy being socially stunted, she does come across as that way on the video. What you mentioned about ignoring everyone else in the room can be a sign of social immaturity (or narcissism)
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Post by km on Aug 11, 2010 14:48:45 GMT -5
Nope, km, I meant "talk". I'm sure I probably have seen Australian (or New Zealand) Christian women talk somewhere before, but I couldn't point out to you who they were. Apparently, if it's just a cultural thing (which I doubt), they were a lot better at appearing "American" normal than Nancy is. As for Nancy being socially stunted, she does come across as that way on the video. What you mentioned about ignoring everyone else in the room can be a sign of social immaturity (or narcissism) But "socially stunted" is often used to delineate developmental disorders such as autism, and it's on that front that I am very uncomfortable with using terminology that implies judgment.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 11, 2010 15:51:02 GMT -5
But we're very clearly not talking about developmental disorders here. I can understand that you're uncomfortable with using the term, so feel free not to use it yourself. However, to say that the term should not be used by anyone because of how some people may use it is, to me, going overboard. As for not passing judgment, I see no reason not to judge her. She’s an awful person and, though it’s ultimately largely benign, I find her entire demeanor not only highly socially stunted but, as we were saying before, “creepy”.
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Post by arietty on Aug 11, 2010 17:52:58 GMT -5
Okay I have watched the Nancy Campbell video posted by Sierra in this thread (thank you Sierra). She does not come across as weird AT ALL for what she is--Australian, christian, pentecostal woman in that age group. She is completely typical and I have heard many people who are even more exaggerated in mannerisms than she. Now I know you all want to watch this stuff and think it's psychopathic demons or whatever but you are incorrect. It's a misreading of cultural differences though I think there are similarities in some American pentecostals as well. No one talks like this in the Reform churches! LOLOLOL I didn't realize she was Pentecostal. That does explain some of it, yes. ETA: And, again, she is not Australian. She's from New Zealand, or so says the Above Rubies site. For the most part, I get your frustration about American cultural practices being imposed as normative, as I know that happens all the time in US-centric spaces (And that this site is one since QF is a pretty US-centric movement.). However, I'm not sure that's what was going on here. I wasn't really put off by the sound of her voice as much as by the fact that she ignores other people in her presence. And I used the term "psychopathy" to encompass the cruel things she was saying about others, and the sense of joy she appeared to take in doing so (And because I don't personally put any stock in arguments about "demonic possession."). Obviously, I am not qualified to diagnose personality disorders, but "psychopathy" is one word that we have for people who take pleasure in harming others. So, I get what you're saying arietty, but I also think your call for cultural sensitivity would go further if you got the name of her country of origin right. KM I am quite aware of where Nancy Campbell comes from and her history. I began reading her magazines in 1988 long before she moved to America. I am aware of when she moved from New Zealand to Australia. She identified as Australian with a footnote about her coming from New Zealand for a long time and still does. New Zealand and Australia are even more similar culturally as the US and Canada are and New Zealanders very commonly move to this country. Nancy Campbell lived in Queensland and raised her children there, Queensland being "old school" Australia culturally in many ways. If you don't wish to believe my cultural comments about Nancy Campbell then carry on as you were, however don't accuse me of ignorance. I really do think I am quite well versed in Nancy Campbell, Australia and New Zealand.
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Post by arietty on Aug 11, 2010 17:53:53 GMT -5
I didn't realize she was Pentecostal. That does explain some of it, yes. ETA: And, again, she is not Australian. She's from New Zealand, or so says the Above Rubies site. For the most part, I get your frustration about American cultural practices being imposed as normative, as I know that happens all the time in US-centric spaces (And that this site is one since QF is a pretty US-centric movement.). However, I'm not sure that's what was going on here. I wasn't really put off by the sound of her voice as much as by the fact that she ignores other people in her presence. And I used the term "psychopathy" to encompass the cruel things she was saying about others, and the sense of joy she appeared to take in doing so (And because I don't personally put any stock in arguments about "demonic possession."). Obviously, I am not qualified to diagnose personality disorders, but "psychopathy" is one word that we have for people who take pleasure in harming others. So, I get what you're saying arietty, but I also think your call for cultural sensitivity would go further if you got the name of her country of origin right. KM I am quite aware of where Nancy Campbell comes from and her history. I began reading her magazines in 1988 long before she moved to America. I am aware of when she moved from New Zealand to Australia. She identified as Australian with a footnote about her coming from New Zealand for a long time and still does. New Zealand and Australia are even more similar culturally than the US and Canada are and New Zealanders very commonly move to this country. Nancy Campbell lived in Queensland and raised her children there, Queensland being "old school" Australia culturally in many ways. If you don't wish to believe my cultural comments about Nancy Campbell then carry on as you were, however don't accuse me of ignorance. I really do think I am quite well versed in Nancy Campbell, Australia and New Zealand.
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Post by km on Aug 11, 2010 19:45:50 GMT -5
I didn't realize she was Pentecostal. That does explain some of it, yes. ETA: And, again, she is not Australian. She's from New Zealand, or so says the Above Rubies site. For the most part, I get your frustration about American cultural practices being imposed as normative, as I know that happens all the time in US-centric spaces (And that this site is one since QF is a pretty US-centric movement.). However, I'm not sure that's what was going on here. I wasn't really put off by the sound of her voice as much as by the fact that she ignores other people in her presence. And I used the term "psychopathy" to encompass the cruel things she was saying about others, and the sense of joy she appeared to take in doing so (And because I don't personally put any stock in arguments about "demonic possession."). Obviously, I am not qualified to diagnose personality disorders, but "psychopathy" is one word that we have for people who take pleasure in harming others. So, I get what you're saying arietty, but I also think your call for cultural sensitivity would go further if you got the name of her country of origin right. KM I am quite aware of where Nancy Campbell comes from and her history. I began reading her magazines in 1988 long before she moved to America. I am aware of when she moved from New Zealand to Australia. She identified as Australian with a footnote about her coming from New Zealand for a long time and still does. New Zealand and Australia are even more similar culturally as the US and Canada are and New Zealanders very commonly move to this country. Nancy Campbell lived in Queensland and raised her children there, Queensland being "old school" Australia culturally in many ways. If you don't wish to believe my cultural comments about Nancy Campbell then carry on as you were, however don't accuse me of ignorance. I really do think I am quite well versed in Nancy Campbell, Australia and New Zealand. Hmm, okay. I mean, the "about us" bit on Above Rubies says simply, "We're New Zealanders." But, whatever, I'm not really interested in fighting about that point. And, yes, I am aware of cultural similarities between the two countries. I didn't say I didn't believe you. I said that what you brought up had nothing to do with any of my comments. And it still doesn't. ETA: Put more bluntly: Arietty, I did not and have not said anything about her sing-songy voice or found it to be particularly significant to any analysis that I have proffered here. Calluna did so briefly, but I did not. Of course I believe you. However, I think you're ignoring the fact that people have said quite a few things that have nothing to do with her voice, and addressing everyone who has participated here as if we all said the exact same things. Her voice is not really at issue here to me, except inasmuch as it somehow manages to be quite soft and quite aggressive all at once (That's what I find "creepy." Not the sing-songy-ness of any of it. I didn't even really think about that.). You seem determined to see the whole discussion of her creepiness as having to do with the cultural insensitivity of people here, but I don't think the linguistic traditions of her country are really at issue here. And I probably end up sounding a little sing-songy when I do public speaking myself, yes, as I have a slight US Southern accent. ETA again: I don't even know why I'm seeming to get into a fight about Australian linguistic trends, actually, when I've not mentioned the tonal quality of Nancy Campbell's voice once, except to say that it's soft (and, you know, individual vocal decibel levels are kind of...eh, individual traits/habits not entirely determined by culture, even if films like "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" would like us to think otherwise.).
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Post by journey on Aug 13, 2010 13:16:40 GMT -5
I would get my Above Rubies mags and just read them over and over and over again. They would inspire me and refresh me and encourage me...and I would take up the gauntlet again and keep on keepin' on. Above Rubies was like a life-line, and articles like Serene's would, as arrietty said, keep me smiling.
Above Rubies took on a whole 'nother light, later, when I read them with different eyes. It may be well-intentioned, but it is so much horrible brainwashing for women in terrible and/or abusive situations. Many readers are likely in wonderful situations...but for those who are not, Above Rubies serves to help them maintain denial, self-condemnation (whenever they are unable to maintain denial), and blindness.
Jesus said He came to open blind eyes. Above Rubies helps blind eyes. Pretty easy to do the math, me thinks.
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Post by arietty on Aug 13, 2010 17:38:05 GMT -5
I would get my Above Rubies mags and just read them over and over and over again. They would inspire me and refresh me and encourage me...and I would take up the gauntlet again and keep on keepin' on. Above Rubies was like a life-line, and articles like Serene's would, as arrietty said, keep me smiling. Above Rubies took on a whole 'nother light, later, when I read them with different eyes. It may be well-intentioned, but it is so much horrible brainwashing for women in terrible and/or abusive situations. Many readers are likely in wonderful situations...but for those who are not, Above Rubies serves to help them maintain denial, self-condemnation (whenever they are unable to maintain denial), and blindness. Jesus said He came to open blind eyes. Above Rubies helps blind eyes. Pretty easy to do the math, me thinks. It took me a while to let go of Above Rubies even after I had thrown out Mary Pride, that horrible Virginia Fugate book and a ton of other stuff. I had been reading about Evangeline etc.. since they were little girls and I did not cancel my subscription even as I was reshaping my life. After all it was just stories right? About people's lives? However I would sometimes feel a sting of guilt and a certain wistfulness reading it even as I divorced and my life changed. But then one day I got an issue in which a woman wrote her testimony of submission unto her continually adulterous husband, how she was convicted that God would eventually triumph and she would win him through her submission despite her trials, heartache and DISEASE that his adultery had caused her. And that was IT, it was all over from there between me and Above Rubies. Not a single cautionary word about this horrible situation was included, no you were supposed to be inspired by this martyrdom potentially unto death that was being held up as a marriage. I wrote "not known this address" on the mailing label and took it back to the post office, never got another issue. The magazine did change over the years too. I remember back in the 80's there would be testimonies from women who had been divorced and then met a new godly christian man at church and how god was blessing their new marriage. This certainly doesn't exist today. I remember Val Stares (long time AR worker and Aus coordinator once the family decamped to the states) honestly grappling with real issues in her family such as when her daughter ran off with the married man next door. She still wrote about her daughter's babies with him in the magazine and she spoke and wrote honestly about the whole thing. Those days are long gone, even more gone than when I was reading if you look at the ridiculous happy family adoption stuff they post about themselves.
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Post by peahen on Aug 16, 2010 9:00:11 GMT -5
I looked at the "about us" Campbells link. Their sons-in-law, who live on their land, sound like real winners - an "inventor," a part-time pawn shop worker, and a painter.
Their sons all married and went away. The girls stayed close and married these fellows. I find this incredibly sad.
There's nothing wrong with being any of these things, but the picture it paints when the mothers are all home with so many children, squeaking by on whatever these "jobs" can supply... I feel incredibly sorry for these women.
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Post by peahen on Aug 16, 2010 9:22:38 GMT -5
Okay I have watched the Nancy Campbell video posted by Sierra in this thread (thank you Sierra). She does not come across as weird AT ALL for what she is--Australian, christian, pentecostal woman in that age group. She is completely typical and I have heard many people who are even more exaggerated in mannerisms than she. Now I know you all want to watch this stuff and think it's psychopathic demons or whatever but you are incorrect. It's a misreading of cultural differences though I think there are similarities in some American pentecostals as well. No one talks like this in the Reform churches! LOLOLOL I watched the first little bit and I had to think the same thing. Made me think of a stereotypical televangelist - white suit, overdone hair, "anointing, anointing" - a grandmotherly Paul Crouch with a down under accent. Definitely not my cup 'o tea.
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Post by valley on Aug 23, 2010 22:57:45 GMT -5
I read the info page about the Campbells. Nancy and her husband do the retreats etc. At least 2 of their children "own" and manage the Newsboys. There is no way there isn't money to help their own sister.
If they did not offer - that would be horrible! If they did offer and were refused - that is no less horrible, but is a different story.
To me without knowing more it seems more likely that Serene's husband has refused help. From my past experience in the ultra-conservative world it would be common for him to do so because to accept help would make him less of a man. And of course the wife's obligation is to accept it and support him with a "merry heart" and if she doesn't, then any bad thing that befalls the family would be her fault. It was amazing to me that so many women on the board I was on were talking up being poor and in similar conditions as if it were some sort of prize.
I do find the description and the word "hilarious" to be very odd and offensive. I helped my own parents clean up after a flood. The wood floor was warped, yes. There was absolutely, positively NOTHING funny about it in the least.
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