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Post by coleslaw on Aug 27, 2010 18:56:01 GMT -5
I think Shelly was trying to point out that there are non-religious reasons for trying to stay out of debt, and I certainly can agree with that. I do think, though, that going into debt that will ultimately increase your financial status (buying a home, getting an education, starting a business, or buying a car to take you to work) is not the same as going into debt to have a bigger TV or the latest fashions. Even people who have taken on some debt can learn from those who try to stay debt-free. But taking on a mortgage in order to put a roof over your children's heads is not the first step to perdition, IMO.
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Post by tapati on Aug 27, 2010 19:00:17 GMT -5
Sure, there are legitimate non-QF reasons to home school. After seeing first hand what my daughter's special ed classroom was like--mainly a corral for hyperactive boys with the quieter girls getting left behind--I decided that I had to home-school her if I had any hope of increasing her reading and writing skills, what to speak of other academic achievements. I did so with considerable success--increased her reading level by 6 grades in one year. However, my extroverted son had no desire to be home-schooled and he continued on with equal success in public school. Nor did he end up using drugs or becoming promiscuous.
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Post by chbernat on Aug 27, 2010 19:13:16 GMT -5
Vyckie and Hopewell, First just let me state that I have goosebumps on my arms right now! I torture myself weekly by watching the Duggar trainwreck and every episode you quoted, Hopewell, I have seen. I loved your point, which was very clearly stated, about cheap child labor. Also, the point that you ended with regarding regulations on child labor was incredibly original. Definitely something I have never consider before reading your article, and honestly, you bring it to its logical conclusion. I would have to agree with you 100%. Its a very misleading thing to represent to other families in the QF movement that things will be peachy if they plug and chug a certain method and belief system. Vyckie~ I would love to share my experience regarding my subpar education and the fact that i am now in school trying to scramble and pick up the pieces so that I can afford to feed my three little guys! I will email you my experience, and you can just feel free to edit it or whatever. Use it how you want, but I will write something somewhat short so you can post it however you like. I am excited about this discussion! It really encapsulates alot of what I have been thinking about in my lil' ol' brain lately! (us writers sure are a nerdy lot! )
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Post by chbernat on Aug 27, 2010 19:19:16 GMT -5
Hey, can I just chime in real quick on the whole public school thing? That's kind of hurtful to hear that I don't love my kids and that I just want to shove my three adorable little monkies off to school so that I don't have to deal with the "brats." I was homeschooled and I hated it. I tried homeschooling my oldest and it was damaging our relationship and our family was falling apart because I couldn't keep up with school and house (basically, I couldn't be supermom). Some women are truly remarkable in that they either have the resources or the energy to fulfill these demands, but I did not. So I have tried both (except private school). I love the fact that I can actually be a better mom knowing that I can give my kids an education...something that I never had. This doesn't mean that I don't have respect for homeschool moms or that they are less of a mom because they homeschool (or I am less of one because I don't). I just think that you need to be careful how you phrase things. Because most parents truly want what's best for their kids. (Now, with my parents, I sincerely doubt that, but that's another story!!) And sometimes those things look differently for different families. Please don't judge those of us who are doing for our kids what we recognize that we couldn't give them by choosing to put them in public school. Its just not very helpful.
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Post by ShellyC on Aug 27, 2010 19:35:36 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, Please do not read in-between the lines ladies , because there are not any lines to read between. *shaking head no* My mini rant/observation was more of all the people who keep stereo typing here. I am no longer Quiverful, but do remain a almost dept- free homeschooling mother. I have other qualities that I still hold strong too, but they are NOT for religious reasons anymore. For example: I am still skirts only. When I left the QF movement, I went directly back to pants. My mind was thinking, I did not want to be associated with anything QF. BUT, to my surprise, I decided that I actually like skirts on me better. I hate dresses, but I like skirts, and it would be really dumb of me to wear pants, [only/i] to not have any ties with the QF movement. KWIM?
This is just another example..just like wanting to be [glow=red,2,300]DEBT[/glow] free and home school my children. Does this make sense?
I base my observations solely on my personal experiences here, in my neck of the woods. I guess I should have been more detailed in saying. I was not expecting to be dissected.
That said,
If some of you have fallen prey and fall under my observations, I am sorry. I did not mean to offend anyone. For me, I get real tired listening to ladies IRL rant on and on, about how bratty their kids are, and how they can not wait for school to start..etc.
If my neighbor down the street doesn't want to home-school their kids, I can care less. Too each her own. What bothers me, are moms who have a whole slew of kids, and do nothing but complain about their bad behavior, and how their kids say the F-word so much, or are into drugs...etc. And for those reasons they do not like to spend time with their kids...or so they say.
My statement about the condoms is, if you can not stand to be home with your kids, STOP having them!!! It really is that simple, unless you are under some force to bare children. Your not doing your kids any favors by complaining about them non stop to who ever will listen.
You see, not all QF folks home-school. I have 2 friends that keep having kids, continue to complain non stop about how bratty they are, but continue to have them!!!
For those parents who fall under THIS. I will continue on with my statement---I would love nothing more then to donate a super size box of condoms too them! I guess I am just not daring enough to actually do that though. I will continue to think it though. "Freedom of thoughts"
What is not to understand about that?
I think it is rather silly to take offense over a couple things that I felt to share from my heart, when more then 1/2 of what is written here anyone could easily take offense too.
I consider myself to have a thick skin nowadays, and can pretty much care less over what others think about me. I just felt strongly moved to come clean and share with y'all how one sided allot of these posts are becoming,regarding QF.
I mean, if we can not be honest, and share our hearts and experiences here, why are we here?
Is it to be flamed?
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Post by chbernat on Aug 27, 2010 19:50:39 GMT -5
In my own experience, I have stated words and phrases that have gotten plenty of panties in bunches! hee, hee. Its all about learning how to artfully phrase it to the reader and your audience. Because we are, after all fallen creatures who struggle with a great deal of selfishness and imperfections. I tend to give offense and take offense too quickly, I have found. I think its sad, but I think that all of us can tend to be that way. Especially since almost everyone here is a parent, and hey, we want to shout it from the rooftops that we are good parents who love our kids! So, no worries, but that's the audience here at NLQ and we all take offense when someone starts to question our love and devotion to our chillins'. (even if they didn't mean it.) It just needed clarification. And thank you for taking the time to do so. So whew. Glad I don't fit your description! Hope we didn't scare you off from posting!
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Post by chbernat on Aug 27, 2010 20:00:47 GMT -5
Oh, and Hopewell. Here is a link to the website that is the group and couple whom my parents were intimately involved with. They are super, uber radical. But what is interesting is that they have a family owned business (lawn care) and on a nightly basis their 23 year old daughter is required to give dad back rubs, clip his toenails, and help with his grooming as a way to "prepare" her for marriage. Its pretty hard to sift through all of her articles, but its well worth it if you want to read some hard-core homeschool p*&n. www.chef-missouri.com (if that doesn't work, try .org at the end. or have vyckie contact me...)
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valsa
New Member
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Post by valsa on Aug 27, 2010 21:30:05 GMT -5
If some of you have fallen prey and fall under my observations, I am sorry. I did not mean to offend anyone. For me, I get real tired listening to ladies IRL rant on and on, about how bratty their kids are, and how they can not wait for school to start..etc. I have no kids, so I have no stake in the whole "mommy wars" thing, but I was still offended. A simple fact of life is this- no mother likes her children all the time. Loves them? Of course. Likes them? No. Kids can be difficult. Kids can be brats. Even very good kids (who don't say the "F-word" or do drugs) can be brats. Moms occasionally need to vent and many (I’d even go so far as to say “most”) need time away from their kids to be themselves, instead of just “mommy” all the time. It’s fine to speak from your experience, but it sounded like you were (and still, to an extent, are) making a sweeping and unfair generalization about certain kinds of mothers. Also, I think it's safe to say that if you feel someone on these boards has been offensive or stereotyped you- you should speak up. Just try to do so without being offensive and stereotypical yourself.
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:00:53 GMT -5
ShellyC: Wow... Eh... I mean, I'm not a parent, so the homeschooling thing kinda got past me, though I certainly understand the problems with it... But what didn't? The whole "keeping up with the Joneses business" and the thing about the nicest "houses and cars"? The whole "God gives to me in non-coincidental ways, He provides for all of our needs..."
This tells me that you haven't had to worry about things like, oh, going into debt in order to put food on the table or cover housing/shelter. Please do not go on about "keeping up with the Joneses" when, from where I stand??? I don't fucking know anyone middle class anymore, and I live in a middle class urban area. Everyone I know has to have two or three jobs in order to eat. In order to pay the bills.
I mean, you know, I'm glad for you, that God gives to you without reservation and in ways that couldn't possibly be coincidence...? In the meantime, I'm too busy keeping up with the Joneses--I mean, trying to pay for food... But that's great that God blesses those who are truly faithful--as opposed to ungrateful ingrates like most of us.
Look, yay for you that you didn't have to go into debt for anything...ever. Maybe you think lower class girls like me shouldn't go to college in the first place. I mean, debt's the only way to do it. Or maybe, by God, I should've found a wealthy doctor or corporate lawyer to marry...
There's been some definite...class-culture shock going on for me around here lately. I mean, you're a Christian and all??? How about some bloody compassion for the fact that times are brutally hard for many of us right now.
But what do I know, really? I'm too busy keeping up with the Joneses--I mean, earning $10 an hour without benefits even though I hold two advanced degrees from elite universities (and an undergrad degree from an elite school too, damnit). But hey.... I'm just happy I didn't complete the PhD. I know English PhDs Also from Elite Schools who work at Starbucks, so... In any case, welcome to America, eh? Where the whole "meritocracy" bullshit isn't even believable anymore...even for those of us who fought to get through the hoops.
God bless America, that's all I got.
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Post by fabucat on Aug 27, 2010 22:05:45 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, Please do not read in-between the lines ladies , because there are not any lines to read between. *shaking head no* My mini rant/observation was more of all the people who keep stereo typing here. I am no longer Quiverful, but do remain a almost dept- free homeschooling mother. I have other qualities that I still hold strong too, but they are NOT for religious reasons anymore. For example: I am still skirts only. When I left the QF movement, I went directly back to pants. My mind was thinking, I did not want to be associated with anything QF. BUT, to my surprise, I decided that I actually like skirts on me better. I hate dresses, but I like skirts, and it would be really dumb of me to wear pants, [only/i] to not have any ties with the QF movement. KWIM?
This is just another example..just like wanting to be [glow=red,2,300]DEBT[/glow] free and home school my children. Does this make sense?
I base my observations solely on my personal experiences here, in my neck of the woods. I guess I should have been more detailed in saying. I was not expecting to be dissected.
That said,
If some of you have fallen prey and fall under my observations, I am sorry. I did not mean to offend anyone. For me, I get real tired listening to ladies IRL rant on and on, about how bratty their kids are, and how they can not wait for school to start..etc.
If my neighbor down the street doesn't want to home-school their kids, I can care less. Too each her own. What bothers me, are moms who have a whole slew of kids, and do nothing but complain about their bad behavior, and how their kids say the F-word so much, or are into drugs...etc. And for those reasons they do not like to spend time with their kids...or so they say.
My statement about the condoms is, if you can not stand to be home with your kids, STOP having them!!! It really is that simple, unless you are under some force to bare children. Your not doing your kids any favors by complaining about them non stop to who ever will listen.
You see, not all QF folks home-school. I have 2 friends that keep having kids, continue to complain non stop about how bratty they are, but continue to have them!!!
For those parents who fall under THIS. I will continue on with my statement---I would love nothing more then to donate a super size box of condoms too them! I guess I am just not daring enough to actually do that though. I will continue to think it though. "Freedom of thoughts"
What is not to understand about that?
I think it is rather silly to take offense over a couple things that I felt to share from my heart, when more then 1/2 of what is written here anyone could easily take offense too.
I consider myself to have a thick skin nowadays, and can pretty much care less over what others think about me. I just felt strongly moved to come clean and share with y'all how one sided allot of these posts are becoming,regarding QF.
I mean, if we can not be honest, and share our hearts and experiences here, why are we here?
Is it to be flamed?
It's all good, Shelly. I actually find your way of expressing yourself to be charming and unique. I think that I can glean a sense of humor here. Sometimes these things are lost when communicating by internets.
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Post by fabucat on Aug 27, 2010 22:08:04 GMT -5
Oh, and Hopewell. Here is a link to the website that is the group and couple whom my parents were intimately involved with. They are super, uber radical. But what is interesting is that they have a family owned business (lawn care) and on a nightly basis their 23 year old daughter is required to give dad back rubs, clip his toenails, and help with his grooming as a way to "prepare" her for marriage. Its pretty hard to sift through all of her articles, but its well worth it if you want to read some hard-core homeschool p*&n. www.chef-missouri.com (if that doesn't work, try .org at the end. or have vyckie contact me...) Does anyone see anything unhealthy about an adult daughter giving her middle-aged dad a backrub? !!!!! Holy smokes!
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:08:33 GMT -5
P.S., Hopewell, I loved your post, especially the whole bit about people making organic goat's milk soap... You crack me up. Sorry I've been a bit of a downer in your thread. If there's one thing that gets me upset, it's class bullshit.... And the assumption that people who don't have resources don't have resources because they're irresponsible and living beyond their means and buying ginormous houses and luxury cars on credit...
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Post by arietty on Aug 27, 2010 22:15:11 GMT -5
Homeschool advocates love to suck mothers into an Us vs Them mindset. If you are insecure about your own parenting there's no quicker way to feel better about it than to buy into this kind of thinking. Do XYZ you are a good, caring parent. Fail to do XYZ and you should have bought a box of condoms (actually this is extreme even for homeschool rhetoric).
Good, loving parenting can happen with ALL schooling choices, and poor parenting can happen with all schooling choices too. One thing I realized after sending mine to school was that the whole idea that the more hours you spend with them the better parent you are is quite silly. It's not all about quantity. Schools can offer a lot to a family and you can work with and be a part of a school community as a family.
After years of observation as well as personal experience my conclusion is that very few people can homeschool a large family to a good, college bound standard for the high school years. I have know families that DID do this and they were highly educated, academic, high energy and financially stable, generally the kind of super-families that will do really well in any setting. At this point I could list you 20 things off the top of my head that my children are learning in school that would take me a very long time to learn myself to a standard to be able to teach them. Astronomy (with field tours), Geology, way-past-Algebra math, advanced French, history of the Russian Revolution.. well I won't list all 20 but you get the idea. And no it is NOT the same to be reading some chapter in an Abeka book about these things, you can't compare it to the depth of knowledge of a teacher passionate about these topics.
So, yes I am making a very good choice for my children to have them in school. If I thought one of them really needed to be homeschooled I would make that choice too. And here's the thing I've found-- many people are very tolerant and encouraging of different schooling choices and parenting styles, it comes easy to those outside of the homeschooling mindset to see that every family is different and that choices aren't automatically good or evil. I'm tired of hearing my QF friend disdain public school when her teenagers can not do long division and are barely literate.
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:19:39 GMT -5
Oh, and Hopewell. Here is a link to the website that is the group and couple whom my parents were intimately involved with. They are super, uber radical. But what is interesting is that they have a family owned business (lawn care) and on a nightly basis their 23 year old daughter is required to give dad back rubs, clip his toenails, and help with his grooming as a way to "prepare" her for marriage. Its pretty hard to sift through all of her articles, but its well worth it if you want to read some hard-core homeschool p*&n. www.chef-missouri.com (if that doesn't work, try .org at the end. or have vyckie contact me...) Does anyone see anything unhealthy about an adult daughter giving her middle-aged dad a backrub? !!!!! Holy smokes! Very much so.
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:20:55 GMT -5
Homeschool advocates love to suck mothers into an Us vs Them mindset. If you are insecure about your own parenting there's no quicker way to feel better about it than to buy into this kind of thinking. Do XYZ you are a good, caring parent. Fail to do XYZ and you should have bought a box of condoms (actually this is extreme even for homeschool rhetoric). Good, loving parenting can happen with ALL schooling choices, and poor parenting can happen with all schooling choices too. One thing I realized after sending mine to school was that the whole idea that the more hours you spend with them the better parent you are is quite silly. It's not all about quantity. Schools can offer a lot to a family and you can work with and be a part of a school community as a family. After years of observation as well as personal experience my conclusion is that very few people can homeschool a large family to a good, college bound standard for the high school years. I have know families that DID do this and they were highly educated, academic, high energy and financially stable, generally the kind of super-families that will do really well in any setting. At this point I could list you 20 things off the top of my head that my children are learning in school that would take me a very long time to learn myself to a standard to be able to teach them. Astronomy (with field tours), Geology, way-past-Algebra math, advanced French, history of the Russian Revolution.. well I won't list all 20 but you get the idea. And no it is NOT the same to be reading some chapter in an Abeka book about these things, you can't compare it to the depth of knowledge of a teacher passionate about these topics. So, yes I am making a very good choice for my children to have them in school. If I thought one of them really needed to be homeschooled I would make that choice too. And here's the thing I've found-- many people are very tolerant and encouraging of different schooling choices and parenting styles, it comes easy to those outside of the homeschooling mindset to see that every family is different and that choices aren't automatically good or evil. I'm tired of hearing my QF friend disdain public school when her teenagers can not do long division and are barely literate. I think this is spot-on. I too have a QF friend like this...
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Post by fabucat on Aug 27, 2010 22:24:41 GMT -5
I checked that Chef-Missouri homepage again and found a mixed bag. Dad evidently believes in a Christian theocracy, and within one of his essays, a horrible screed against Muslims can be found. (It's only a matter of time before a refugee from an extremist Muslim cult will join NLQ). I clicked on the gardening tips link and bookmarked it. These folks are more than just lawn cutters, but they are horticulturalists. The gardening section is excellent. The wife writes a whole lot more coherently than the husband.
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Post by arietty on Aug 27, 2010 22:28:37 GMT -5
As to the Family Business model, this is a great idea but some people absolutely suck at it.
I have seen QF moms doing their darndest to get their husband into something like this. One mom I knew went through Amway and numerous other MLM sell programs for her husband to do as a way of eventually quitting his (perfectly good) job and working at home with them all (that quantity thing again).. this went on for years and cost them thousands of dollars and they did not make ONE CENT. Though in her mind they did because she bought tons of stuff from these companies at a seller's discount. The reason it failed is she has a husband who can barely string two sentences together and is NOT a public speaker, stumbles, blushes and mispronounces doing a bible reading at church. He is not going to ever be a high powered salesman but his wife was totally sold on the idea that having a home business and him staying home was God's plan.
Once again it is trying to cram diverse families into one formula, a formula (apparently) derived from a couple bible verses written poetically about a nomadic people thousands of years ago.
The last time I was on a QF mailing list just about everyone there was on WIC and living very poorly. They felt very guilty about the WIC but most had 10+ children and needed to feed them. A few of them had disabled husbands but the others had husbands with regular working class jobs, they just could not afford all these kids especially when they got to the teen years. You can grind your own wheat all you want but that savings doesn't pay for needing a bigger house to rent and a bigger van etc.. or for medical expenses and on and on and on.
My current QF friend is in massive, massive debt. They have entered into all kinds of investments over the last 10 years because "God has called us to.." The investments go from losing money every month but might be okay in a decade to complete scams. They were into some prosperity idea about investing and God will bless you and blah blah.. and they refuse to get rid of any of these investments because that would be saying God did not actually call them to do those things. Some of these things are costing them thousands a month and the debt mounts endlessly.
Anyway.. just to say not everyone is the Duggars who seem to have hard work, luck, personality and some smarts on their side as well as their army of unpaid workers.
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:32:46 GMT -5
Anyway.. just to say not everyone is the Duggars who seem to have hard work, luck, personality and some smarts on their side as well as their army of unpaid workers. And a telegenic family...
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Post by kindaconfused on Aug 27, 2010 22:44:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the great article on Duggars and QF debt-free
So, for all of the No Longer Quivering follks out there, are the Duggars typical of most QF families?
I'm sure it has been mentioned by someone else but I will state it again, I don't think you can overlook the TLC influence on the Duggars financial life today. I know they started the dream home before TLC, but I really don't think it would have been finished in the same time frame had they not been helped by TLC and it certainly would not have been furnished as well if they had to pay for everything on their own.
The article mentions their going without AC or blinds for time period. But you notice again, TLC paid for those things. I get the impression Jim Bob just waits people out. Going without things until someone gives it to them.
I think that is one difference I hear between the Duggars and some of the QF stories I see hear. Women here seem to say their husband would refuse outside help from anyone. Whereas JimBob seems to almost demand it, or at least feel entitled to it.
I also laughed a bit at the point in the article where it talked about the Duggars and most QF believing in the 'leave and cleave' attitude Michelle mentions. Funny because the sentence before that stated how Josh and Anna were living in his grandmother's rental property....how exactly is that making it on his own?
Lastly, I did not know all of the pre-TLC life of the Duggars, it sounds like back then Jim Bob really did work hard to make it all work for his family so he did not have to be out working 80hrs a week. Seems like a man of conviction.
Sadly, I think TLC changed him, for the worse. Jim Bob (and Michelle) have mentioned numerous times how the children don't watch TV or about how TV is bad, evil, worthless, etc.....but somehow they justify (in their own minds) how it is okay for them to profit financially from TV? It reminds of the story (may be urban legend, I don't know) of the Marlboro Man shooting a TVvcommercial, back in the day, during a break he was standing around with the company executives but he was the only one lighting up, when he asked why no one else wanted a cigarette, one of the executives said "we don't smoke this sh@%, we only sell it"
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Post by arietty on Aug 27, 2010 22:46:06 GMT -5
btw my QF friends with the massive debt used to preach that all christians should be debt free, about 20 years ago. They read all those 70's christian books about being debt free and would be quite scathing towards people in the church taking out loans for anything. Now, much to my complete disbelief, they are scathing about people not investing and just paying off their houses because this is like the middle guy in the talents parable who returned the money without losing or gaining anything. How they can be scathing when in such monumental debt is beyond me, it's not like this plan is actually working. The mom is besides herself with anxiety over their finances yet still looks down on those not following similar plans!
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:47:54 GMT -5
Just like there are many people who want to live in a rural areas, and use some good work ethics to live off their land, or have a home business. It is just their choice! Not all of us enjoy waking up for the 9-5 jobs...Not all of us are into following the crowds..Does this make sense? There was also this bit about how those of us working 9-5 jobs are sheep. I dunno... I work 9-5 out of necessity, though it sure must be nice to have the luxury of sleeping in all week! I don't really consider having-to-work a choice having to do with finding myself or being who I am... What do I know anyway? I'm too busy following the herd and keeping up with the Joneses and planning blow job competitions for my potential-future-children (who are unlikely to exist anyway, since I have a deformed uterus and all...)... It's just... Shelly, I've liked many of your posts. I've got nothing against you, but damned if this rant of yours didn't rub me the wrong way. I think you threw a lot of really offensive stereotypes out at a lot of people here, for a post that was meant to decry stereotypes in the first place. ETA: And, also... It's not really reading between the lines here. It's reading what the lines themselves say.
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Post by km on Aug 27, 2010 22:49:21 GMT -5
btw my QF friends with the massive debt used to preach that all christians should be debt free, about 20 years ago. They read all those 70's christian books about being debt free and would be quite scathing towards people in the church taking out loans for anything. Now, much to my complete disbelief, they are scathing about people not investing and just paying off their houses because this is like the middle guy in the talents parable who returned the money without losing or gaining anything. How they can be scathing when in such monumental debt is beyond me, it's not like this plan is actually working. The mom is besides herself with anxiety over their finances yet still looks down on those not following similar plans! My QF friends go through phases like this too! Used to be quite scathing about headcoverings. Called them "beanies." Now they all cover!
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Post by arietty on Aug 27, 2010 23:00:28 GMT -5
btw my QF friends with the massive debt used to preach that all christians should be debt free, about 20 years ago. They read all those 70's christian books about being debt free and would be quite scathing towards people in the church taking out loans for anything. Now, much to my complete disbelief, they are scathing about people not investing and just paying off their houses because this is like the middle guy in the talents parable who returned the money without losing or gaining anything. How they can be scathing when in such monumental debt is beyond me, it's not like this plan is actually working. The mom is besides herself with anxiety over their finances yet still looks down on those not following similar plans! My QF friends go through phases like this too! Used to be quite scathing about headcoverings. Called them "beanies." Now they all cover! I think the key word here is scathing. The need to not just make choices but to have your choices be superior ones to other peoples.
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Post by rosa on Aug 27, 2010 23:13:33 GMT -5
Nobody wants moms to be happy with their choices. When I went back to work, all the moms were all "oh i'd rather be with my babies, i hate working, I miss them"...it made them really mad when I'd say I was working because I wanted to. But none of them had ever been stay at home moms, so they didn't actually know which they liked better (if I'd gone back to work 2 weeks after my son was born, I'd feel like I missed out, too.)
Arietty, my heart just aches for your friends. There are so many scams that go around Christian circles (and not just Christian circles - we've got a scandal locally where a man was going around claiming to raise money for Muslim relief efforts in Somalia and Eritrea, but was really using the money to recruit kids to go fight in the civil war there, and getting paid by someone on the other side as well.). People fall prey to all sorts of fads, and they trust anyone with the right religious stamp instead of applying the kind of skepticism you need for business transactions. I used to have a friend who was just a regular Baptist who got into one semilegal MLM after another - she finally got mad at me for never supporting her by buying stuff (or signing up to be incorporated as a business for tax dodging, or going on a diet so I could sell supplements, or whatever.) and stopped talking to me, but I see her sometimes and I know she's on another one.
I really think it would be a service if churches would investigate these groups and put some energy into protecting their members. It's not that hard - the newspaper I worked at just subscribed to an email alert list so we knew which ads to watch out for (they didn't allow MLM ads in the jobs, they had to be in business opportunities, and commission-only jobs had to say "commission only" in the ad - we didn't ban Eagle or Herbalife or anything, we just made them say who and what they were. Which they hate.)
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Post by arietty on Aug 27, 2010 23:52:13 GMT -5
I have a sort of friend from my old homeschool QF life who calls me about every 6 weeks, not to pursue a friendship but to invite me to whatever MLM thing she is selling. This has been going on for 10 years. I have never come to a single one of them!
I know many churches during the boom of MLM stated on their church directories that the phone numbers were not to be used to get people to join MLM stuff (specifically Amway). I remember several big churches actually stopped publishing the yearly directory with everyone's phone numbers because Amway people in the church used it that way.
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