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Post by nikita on Oct 14, 2010 19:53:35 GMT -5
In fact he goes on to say in verse 12 he wished those trying to impress legalism on the Gentile converts would castrate themselves. Apparently Paul felt very strongly about legalism. That just made me giggle.
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Post by krwordgazer on Oct 14, 2010 23:48:40 GMT -5
This verse grabbed my attention. You have been severed from Christ those of you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 My first honest reaction was that verse means that Christians shouldn't strive to take over a government and force their laws on the others around them. When I looked up the verse in my Oxford Study Edition of The New English Bible I wound up confused, because Paul seems to be saying that if you are circumcised you must keep the whole covenant... Color me confused. I think, Autumn, that what's throwing you off is that the words "justification" and "law" have specific meanings within Paul's teachings and in the context of the book of Galatians. By "justification" he means getting right with God. By "law" he means the Jewish law as set forth in the Old Testament. I hope that helps.
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autumn
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by autumn on Oct 15, 2010 8:57:44 GMT -5
Both replies lead me back to my original conclusion, that Paul felt that forcing others to follow the covenant was wrong.
So then I think that Dominionism, the modern drive to take over the government and make it the "Christian Nation" that some think it is and that it never was.
Hmmmmm
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Post by humbletigger on Oct 15, 2010 18:13:53 GMT -5
I thin there is great merit in that pov, autumn.
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Post by pollypinks on Oct 18, 2010 7:57:49 GMT -5
For Jael: Firstly, you are too hard on yourself. We all get caught up in the parenting trap. I will say that since you base your behavior in scripture, one key is missing, and that is that you made your children's sins worse than your own. I have a crapload of guilt over my parenting, though not for the same reasons. People accused me of being too permissive, which I was. What they didn't realize was that I had a severly bipolar child who probably, would not have survived in an overbearing home. So, learn to forgive yourself. Find fun things to do just for yourself. Show your children you are willing to have fun with them, movies, bike rides, etc. And ask for forgiveness. Especially with your son. I did, and mountains moved. And lastly, I give zero credit to satan. Did you know he is only mentioned 17 times in the Bible? Look up how many times God is mentioned. "You have no need to fear but fear itself." Here's for having some fun today.
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Post by pollypinks on Oct 18, 2010 8:04:02 GMT -5
Another thought since the author Paul comes up often....Aside from having his vision that caused his coming to Jesus conversion, we have no evidence that this man ever ministered with Christ, therefore, we can recognize that he could and did say what was ever on his mind any old time. I have a book entitled,"What Paul Really Said About Women", and it's boring, but the author examines the NT text in the English form next to the Greek text, and when you put them together, it's mind boggling! You know how we have different forms for words, like, there, their, they're, for, four, fore, etc., well the same is true for the authors of the Bible. So we shouldn't get all caught up in the literal sense of what we read, to the point of thinking our salvation is on the line in a works sense. Rememer, "By grace ye are saved."
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Post by pollypinks on Oct 18, 2010 8:11:55 GMT -5
For krwordgazer, and then I'll shut up since I've talked too much today. We should be practicing separation of church and state. Evangelicals prance around touting just the opposite from our founding fathers, when it's a total lie. Many things have and will change over time, and the fathers knew this. Like, we don't have slaves anymore, at least legal ones. And we are still fighting for women's rights in the workplace, as we should be. I get crazy when the religious right preaches from the PULPIT how to vote, how to force the nation to become Christian, and how to put down those who aren't like them. I sat in a Bible study once and listened to the teacher say God only hears the prayers of Christians. I got up and left, like, some dude in Africa who's never heard of Christ is starving and falls on the ground and calls out to God for help. God doesn't hear that? Man, these people are just gosh dang dangerous. Pro life? Only until it's born, and then those who need extra programs or extra help can expect the right to vote to end those. Remember when Cheney was in congress, about a thousand years ago? I remember. He was one of two congressmen who voted against Head Start. We need be pro life in all aspects of life, not just for the embryo. Until these people start taking note of that, I'm pro choice, or, adoption, all the way, sister. Oh, and let's be sure to keep millions and millions of people away from the doctor, or, send them to the E.R. where you and I will suck up the cost next time we go.
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Post by krwordgazer on Oct 18, 2010 11:08:41 GMT -5
Pollypinks, I'm not sure why you addressed that last to me, as though we were in disagreement about these issues; we are not. I agree with everything you just said. All I meant was that Paul meant something specific by what he said there in the passage in Galatians Autumn cited. I totally agree that the New Testament does not teach dominionism, and she's absolutely right that the Scriptures teach that people cannot and should not be forced into beliefs. But that is not what this particular passage in Galatians is about; Paul is talking specifically about a group of people who were saying that non-Jewish converts to Christianity had to keep the whole Jewish law in order to be accepted by Christ. I advocate for reading each passage of Scripture in its whole context and not adding meanings that weren't originally intended by the author or understood by the first audience. The historical, cultural and literary context must be taken into account for each and every passage, or we are doing the same thing the fundamentalists do. But Autumn, I completely agree that when the writings are read as a whole, they are against Dominionism.
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Post by usotsuki on Oct 18, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -5
All I meant was that Paul meant something specific by what he said there in the passage in Galatians Autumn cited. I totally agree that the New Testament does not teach dominionism, and she's absolutely right that the Scriptures teach that people cannot and should not be forced into beliefs. But that is not what this particular passage in Galatians is about; Paul is talking specifically about a group of people who were saying that non-Jewish converts to Christianity had to keep the whole Jewish law in order to be accepted by Christ. To which he calls them fools and says that group of people was "turning the gospel upside-down" (1.6-7), and that any such person should be "anathema" (1.8, repeated for emphasis in 1.9). I get the feeling he didn't like that approach very much and would be very annoyed at some of the fundie groups out there today.
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