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Post by hopewell on Mar 1, 2010 12:08:57 GMT -5
Like the others, I cannot imagine growing up like this! I had a mentally ill father and didn't have anything like this going on.
Sadly, it makes me want to jump forward 10-20 years and read the Duggar kid's tell-alls NOW. The "other side" of that family has yet to be seen. Thanks for helping us all to understand the bizarre world of Bill Gothard's "Christianity."
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Post by WanderingOne on Mar 1, 2010 13:40:34 GMT -5
Oh Ruth.... This was so difficult for me to read. We didn't have a prayer closet--but we had something similar. I can't imagine being locked in there with the light out for so long. It seems like you could be describing my childhood here. I was the oldest and often placed in charge of the younger ones--so any of their misbehaviors were mine as well. If I told, I was tattling and was punished. If I didn't tell....I was punished for being an accomplice to their disobedience. It's terrifying. I'm so sorry you had do go through that. I wish no one did.
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Post by singingbird on Mar 1, 2010 13:59:21 GMT -5
This is so far out of my personal experience, I might as well be reading science fiction. I just don't know what to make of any of it. I'm alternatively interested and horrified.
Each installment brings more questions on seemingly minor matters to the secular brain. What does it mean to "blanket train" a child? How did Bill Gothard come to prominence? How do people that perpetrate these teachings evade the authorities? Would an outsider even know that something like this was going on?
I mean, the only frame of reference I have for things like a Prayer Closet is the Chokey from Roald Dahl's Matilda. My heart just aches for Ruth and her family. I feel bereft, like the Simple Son from the Haggadah. (In the book we take turns reading from during Passover there's a story about four responses to the tale of our removal from bondage. The Simple Son asks "What's all this?" and the Father is supposed to respond that "With a strong hand and an outstretched arm G-d led us out of Egypt, from the house of bondage." This is in contrast to the Wicked Son's question where he excludes himself and is excluded in answer and the Wise Son who wants to get to the analysis)
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Post by ronica on Mar 1, 2010 17:03:16 GMT -5
Ronica: My sense was not that Ruth is defending any of these practices here. I only noticed that she feels defensive of her brothers in the post, which I think is completely understandable given that they were also children who were entrenched in an abusive system. Also, I could see that she was writing from a perspective of having defended her experiences against those who would say that "the problem isn't the ATIA teachings. Rather, it's the fact that your family members were abusive." In opposition to that claim, she clearly demonstrates that the ATI/QF/P teachings lead to abusive "disciplinary" practices in her own home. I think this series could be incredibly helpful/instructive for people who are researching homeschool curriculum and considering bringing ATIA into their own homes. So, I guess I'm just saying... What you read as apologetic, I read as strategically geared toward a certain audience for the purpose of advocacy. I can see that, yes, but it wasn't crystal clear to me. My mother suffered under abuse from a family member, and the accompanying guilt she felt always made her flip-flop on it. A weird example from my own life happened during a 3 month long migraine I had--after a particularly potent narcotic shot at the ER, I felt a wave of guilt for *not* having a headache! It just blew me out of the water, and made me really think about situations where one might feel this, PTSD, abuse, etc. That may seem far-fetched. I realize her brothers were children, and I wondered why she even put that in there--nothing they did in the post seemed out of the ordinary for kids. Didn't seem like anything she should have to protect them from at all to me. Kids argue about stuff--it's her parents' reactions that were way out of whack. Heck, Jesus threw a tantrum in the temple! ;D What I meant was that she was still seeing it through that lens by this disclaimer--they did nothing wrong. As for advocacy, that's a good thought, but since the post wasn't organized as such, I didn't even assume it would be looked upon for that purpose. I'm kind of new to all of this. I taught at a conservative Christian school that had a family of QF's, and always wanted to know more about it. But, I was the contracted Band director, the wild one who wore makeup and high heels, so I remained a bit out of the loop. Thanks for the explanation!
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Post by krwordgazer on Mar 1, 2010 20:29:28 GMT -5
RazingRuth, it's hard to know what to say in the face of all that abuse. It seems to me like the childrearing path they were following could be called, "How to raise your child to hate the Bible, hate hearing the Bible read, hate prayer, hate their siblings, hate themselves and hate you." The amazing thing is who you turned out to be anyway. Kudos to you! How on earth they thought this was going to turn out children who wanted anything to do with the beliefs they were trained to follow, completely eludes me.
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Post by asteli on Mar 1, 2010 21:03:39 GMT -5
What does it mean to "blanket train" a child? Put a newly mobile baby on a blanket. When they crawl off, hit them. When they start staying there, tempt them with toys. When they go after they toy, hit them. Repeat until they give up trying to get off the blanket.
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Post by singingbird on Mar 2, 2010 19:53:56 GMT -5
Put a newly mobile baby on a blanket. When they crawl off, hit them. When they start staying there, tempt them with toys. When they go after they toy, hit them. Repeat until they give up trying to get off the blanket. That's horrible! How could someone do that to a baby? Let alone their own baby? Why would they do that? My best friend was visiting with her six month old last week and I'm now picturing someone doing that to Eva and I can't imagine it. I mean, yes, she did get in to everything and scared my cat witless, and required near constant supervision, but she's not evil or wrong. She's just helpless and hapless and doesn't know any better. She scared the cat because she is still learning how her voice works and she got in to everything because she wants to see everything and she moved stuff around because she is still figuring out that she can impact the world around her. Dislike! (as we say on facebook.)
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Post by musicmom on Mar 2, 2010 23:25:05 GMT -5
What does it mean to "blanket train" a child? Put a newly mobile baby on a blanket. When they crawl off, hit them. When they start staying there, tempt them with toys. When they go after they toy, hit them. Repeat until they give up trying to get off the blanket. What is really disturbing about this is what it does to the child psychologically. Obviously, the pain caused by the discipline is not good either. But even worse to me is what it says: "Do not explore. Do not be curious. Do not take any initiative. Do not think for yourself". The child will, it seems to me, grow up with a nameless dread and fear of discovering the world. Hmmm.....wondering if my parents blanket trained me......
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Post by km on Mar 2, 2010 23:34:42 GMT -5
What is really disturbing about this is what it does to the child psychologically. Obviously, the pain caused by the discipline is not good either. But even worse to me is what it says: "Do not explore. Do not be curious. Do not take any initiative. Do not think for yourself". The child will, it seems to me, grow up with a nameless dread and fear of discovering the world. Yes, THIS. It's awful from this perspective.
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Post by asteli on Mar 3, 2010 1:35:36 GMT -5
Put a newly mobile baby on a blanket. When they crawl off, hit them. When they start staying there, tempt them with toys. When they go after they toy, hit them. Repeat until they give up trying to get off the blanket. What is really disturbing about this is what it does to the child psychologically. Obviously, the pain caused by the discipline is not good either. But even worse to me is what it says:"Do not explore. Do not be curious. Do not take any initiative. Do not think for yourself". The child will, it seems to me, grow up with a nameless dread and fear of discovering the world. Hmmm.....wondering if my parents blanket trained me...... Plus the damage from completely not understanding why this person you are utterly dependent on keeps hurting you. I've got a 1 year old (in exactly 6 hours, eek!) & I can see the confusion & hurt in his eyes when we stop him from doing "fun" things like hanging over the side of the couch (he's fallen twice and still doesn't get it). I can't imagine how devastated he'd be if we hit him to stop him. Or how many times I'd have to hit him before he could even begin to connect the 2 enough to stop doing something completely natural. (He's leaning against me "talking" & I'm nearly in tears even thinking in the abstract about doing that to him)
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