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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 30, 2009 21:39:58 GMT -5
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Post by ambrosia on Sept 30, 2009 23:02:43 GMT -5
Oh for pity's sake!!!!!! I could cry for all the children who had their lives mangled for the sake of parents' dreams/lunacy/lack of thought. I can only hope I didn't encumber my own children with baggage. It's been a long time, but I remember basically being allowed to run wild as a child - bicycle or horseback day trips that went from after breakfast until dinner time, my choice of available activities through school, my choice of friends (even if my parents had reservations). When I think about all the whining and moaning I did as a teenager, I want to apologize to my parents retroactively.
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Post by tapati on Oct 1, 2009 0:57:46 GMT -5
Oh Erika, it breaks my heart to think of you taking down your posters and crying at basketball as you were forced to leave. This man was evil, just evil, and all in the name of God.
I so empathize with your trapped feeling and countdown to age 18!
There ought to be a straightforward and easy way for teens to petition for foster care or emancipation, and legal representation for free to do so.
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Post by gloriamarilyn on Oct 1, 2009 1:52:29 GMT -5
<i>There ought to be a straightforward and easy way for teens to petition for foster care or emancipation, and legal representation for free to do so.</i> Even if there were, I don't know how many teens would use that method. I was raised by very abusive parents in a very abusive church from the time I was 10 till I was 18. I thought of calling Child & Family Services SO many times, but I was so deathly afraid of being tossed into this big, evil world, and, besides....my parents DID love me- they just had some pretty awful ways of showing it. I also had my younger siblings to keep in mind- if I called CFS, not only would I be removed from the home, but so would my siblings, and that wouldn't be fair to them. (yes, I'm an expert at the self denial-being-quiet-for-everyone-else's-sake....it's only been lately that I've stood up to my family and said that Enough is Enough- I'm sick of the years of emotional abuse!) I threatened my father that I'd call CFS when he was beating me, and he mockingly told me to go ahead- I would reap the miserable results of my subversion. So....I never did. (I also just recently finally called my father on one of his bluffing threats- I don't think he expected that to happen. Since then (we cut him out of our lives completely for a few months), he's been much more respectful- why didn't I do that before? But...yeah. The Me of today looks at the Me of my growing up years, and I just cry. I wish I could go back in time, and tear the conflicted me out of that abusive situation, and just run far, far away. My heart absolutely breaks when I look at the abuse that I had to put up with in my tender teenaged years, and it makes me so angry when I look at the long lasting results it has had on me. I'm methodically working through every aspect of this abuse, and I have constant waves of pain and anger that hit me. I really doubt that many of these young teens would actually run if given a chance- sure, some would- but really, how many more are brooding and hiding their pain, but wouldn't dare think of escaping. Erika was lucky- she managed to keep her "rebellious self" fully intact, and never internally bowed to the abuse. I, wanting so desperately to please everyone, and God in particular, nearly gave up everything of myself. By the time I left when I was 18, my spirit and independence was nearly completely broken- they had almost succeeded in creating a mindless automaton. My leaving was also not voluntary- I was kicked out forcefully, and I stood at the gate for a long time, wanting back in. Thankfully, circumstances were such as to keep me out- the kind hand of God/providence/fate.... I get livid when I look in on these evil groups- even if a child SEEMS happy and perfectly content to stay where they are, I think back to the child that was me, and re-live the pain all over again, and I know that there IS a portion of this child/young person that wants out, whether or not they'd admit it. It's just....SO helpless. I want to tell those children that it's ok- you'll survive if you leave- but...I know that for the most part, that's not really true. Surviving the aftermath of a mind control cult takes incredibly strong willpower and character, and I've seen too many just bow under pressure, and completely destroy their lives. If only there was a way to stop this particular brand of evil......
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Post by hopewell on Oct 1, 2009 9:53:14 GMT -5
I don't understand asking a pastor if you can leave a Church. Walk out. Don't go back. If you are friends or long time members, then of course courtesy would dictate saying "Thank you for all you've done, but we're heading in a new direction."
Your post makes me glad I let my daughter go back to public school. She wanted to do homeschool so I let her, then wanted to go back so I let her go back. I can see plus/minus of both, but I felt at 13 it was her life and her choice.
I felt for you as I read your post! I was just like you as a 14 year old my life was basketball [although I never had courage enough to try out for the team], my bike my music [band and the classical and jazz and Beatles albums I loved]. Although I hated most of high school for the stupid classes and enforced boredom, I loved being with my friends, being in band, being on the debate team. My daughter went back for friends and to try to be a cheerleader--her dream. I can't imagine what you went thru having your whole life negated.
So much of what you wrote about is why I watch "18 kids and Counting" and look at the four eldest Duggar girls as indentured servants. Your story should be required reading for parents.
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Post by anatheist on Oct 1, 2009 11:54:38 GMT -5
I'm so sorry you had to have all that taken away from you.
I remember how surprised I was when I heard that my ex-sister-in-law was not going play basketball in college. She had played all through high school, was going to a Christian college, and was encouraged by her family to try out for the team. But she had gotten into some patriarchal ideas- she seemed to be the kind of person who just loved having all these rules for her life- and she decided that being involved in "men's sports" turned women into lesbians! What ignorance! And she also didn't want to have to risk having any lesbians as teammates, although I can't imagine a lesbian wanting to go to that Christian school at all- I'm not even sure that someone who was out of the closet would have been admitted.
Being a college athlete myself, I took offense to the allegation that I was going to turn into a lesbian, but my ex-SIL assured me that I was ok because I was doing a "sport that's appropriate for women because there's not much physical contact". Oh thanks. I feel now like I should have known to run far away from that whole family, but I'd known her for a long time, back when we actually played sports together, and I just didn't realize how deep this QF/patriarchal thing could go when it was taken to an extreme, nor how these ideas would influence her family, including her brother, my ex-husband.
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Post by tapati on Oct 1, 2009 13:28:58 GMT -5
Gloriamarilyn, you are admirable for staying for the sake of your siblings. I can see what a tough spot you were in.
For those of us who didn't have that constraint, foster care or emancipation looked mighty tempting!
I just think it should be more available as an option, even if not every teen feels able to utilize it.
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Post by kisekileia on Oct 1, 2009 20:09:15 GMT -5
I knew quite a few teens who would likely have been too scared to go for foster care or emancipation, especially foster care, even though their families were abusive, but I also think the option should be there. And emancipation especially should be an option--the idea of going into foster care is very scary for many kids.
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Post by rosa on Oct 1, 2009 23:10:01 GMT -5
It should also be easier for older teens to petition to have their custody switched to another relative (grandparents, adult siblings, etc.). You would think that would be easier on everyone involved, especially the court - I do see the trepidation in granting a 16 year old complete freedom, even though I personally believe kids wouldn't ask for it if they weren't better off almost anywhere but at home.
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Post by krwordgazer on Oct 1, 2009 23:45:58 GMT -5
Erika, your story here just made me want to cry. My own daughter is turning 15 in just two weeks. The thought of her happy freedom being suddenly stripped from her-- the confusion and pain she'd be feeling-- it just breaks my heart, thinking that this happened to you. That it would be done by her own parents-- her father and I-- horrifies me no end. I can hardly imagine what your parents must feel like, looking back on it all, now they have come to their senses.
15 is an age when a kid is learning who she is, learning to take responsibility for herself, learning the consequences of her own choices. It's the age when she ought to be trusted with more and more independence as she demonstrates that she can handle it. The awfulness of being clamped down on at that age, just when you should have been spreading your wings-- so terrible. It just makes me want to take the teenage you into my house and become your guardian, so I could let you go back to school with your friends. . . Gloriamarilyn too. Stuff like you're describing should never, ever have happened to you.
Hugs to you both.
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Post by kisekileia on Oct 2, 2009 8:49:52 GMT -5
I agree with you, Rosa. I think that would be a really good idea--a lot of teens with abusive parents have some relative who would treat them decently, and it'd be a more palatable idea than foster care for teens.
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Post by rosa on Oct 2, 2009 11:14:55 GMT -5
It's possible, but the process is really complicated and involves stuff like the parents formally relinquishing their rights, or having their rights stripped in court. I have a friend who got married at 20 just to be able to qualify as foster parents for her little sister. That was in the '80s, and the requirements are different now, but it's still a wrenching process.
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Post by barbaraw on Oct 2, 2009 11:21:28 GMT -5
I have a friend who got married at 20 just to be able to qualify as foster parents for her little sister. That was in the '80s, and the requirements are different now, but it's still a wrenching process. How'd the marriage work out?
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Post by rosa on Oct 2, 2009 11:35:46 GMT -5
About as well as most people who marry at 20 with no parental support and no money, I think. Her second marriage is great, though, and her sister is doing well.
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Post by mandajanie on Oct 2, 2009 22:15:47 GMT -5
Erika, I know this has been hard for you, but I'm glad you are writing your story. There must be freedom in all of this soul-bearing. Like Gloria, I am continually amazed at how YOU where never crushed. What a testimony that is to your self-perseverance!! You amaze me, girl; I love how strong spirited you are.
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Post by grandmalou on Oct 3, 2009 8:03:49 GMT -5
Erika, bless you for your continuing story. I think I can relate to how you felt when you had to take down those posters, drop the basketball team, and all the things that made you who you were at that time. How it hurts! Rips your heart out, and makes you SO feel like a non-entity. And NOW you are such a strong lady! {{{HUGS}}}
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 3, 2009 12:07:38 GMT -5
Like Gloria, I stayed for my siblings. I had the number to the Child Welfare office and I kept it hidden in my room, just in case I needed to use it, but I also feared for my siblings. None of them wanted to leave. They were all more than happy to have the rules put on them and I didn't want to jeopardize their well-being (though years down the road, I see how much damage it did to them, regardless of them wanting this lifestyle at first) simply because I couldn't take it.
My family had always been close, so it was heartbreaking for me to even think about tearing my family apart like that.
I had a couple friends that couldn't stand how strict their parents were and they made up a lie about their father sexually abusing them just to get out of the house and into foster homes. It ruined their parents' life and reputation in town. It was awful. And they thought they were going to get freedom in a foster home, but they ended up being in homes just as strict and situations that actually WERE abusive. One of them got sent to the Job Corps because she wanted out and ended up being raped there. By the time these girls realized how bad it was out in the system, they tried to retract their accusation against their father and get sent back home. By then, the court wouldn't believe them and the father had lost his job and his reputation was ruined. He was also put in the registry as a child molesterer and forever tarnished wherever he went.
I was also afraid for myself to be in that horrible system in our area.
I know there were family members that would have gladly taken me in, but my parents would never have given up their rights. Maybe if a court had gotten involved, but that would have also meant that my siblings would have been put at risk and I didn't want to do that to them.
So, while the system was in place, in our area, it was a horrible system of people fostering just to get the money from the state and not having a true heart for helping kids in need. That scared the crap out of me.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 3, 2009 12:08:34 GMT -5
Erika, I know this has been hard for you, but I'm glad you are writing your story. There must be freedom in all of this soul-bearing. Like Gloria, I am continually amazed at how YOU where never crushed. What a testimony that is to your self-perseverance!! You amaze me, girl; I love how strong spirited you are. Hey you! So glad to see you here! And YOU amaze ME!!! I'm so proud of how far you've come considering everything that YOU have been through.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 3, 2009 12:11:01 GMT -5
It's been a long time, but I remember basically being allowed to run wild as a child - bicycle or horseback day trips that went from after breakfast until dinner time, my choice of available activities through school, my choice of friends (even if my parents had reservations). This was one of the hardest things of all for me. Up until the age of 14, I WAS able to be with friends, walk all over town, go to the library or the playground or swimming pool, ride my bike everywhere, etc. Having all of that ripped away in a very short time was maddening!
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 3, 2009 12:13:15 GMT -5
So much of what you wrote about is why I watch "18 kids and Counting" and look at the four eldest Duggar girls as indentured servants. Your story should be required reading for parents. I've only seen clips of the show, since we don't have that channel on our programming, but what I've seen makes me so angry. I've seen this happen in so many families....these kids just perpetuate the cycle by raising another family of mindless clones and the cycle goes on and on. So sad.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 3, 2009 12:16:36 GMT -5
15 is an age when a kid is learning who she is, learning to take responsibility for herself, learning the consequences of her own choices. It's the age when she ought to be trusted with more and more independence as she demonstrates that she can handle it. The awfulness of being clamped down on at that age, just when you should have been spreading your wings-- so terrible. It just makes me want to take the teenage you into my house and become your guardian, so I could let you go back to school with your friends. . . Gloriamarilyn too. Stuff like you're describing should never, ever have happened to you. It was so suffocating, but I felt at a loss of what to do at that age. I thought it might just be a phase my parents were going through that would end soon enough, but it got worse. Much worse. Up until that point, I had been a kid with good grades, good friends and well behaved. I was a confident kid that knew what I wanted to do with my life. To have it all ripped from me in one fell swoop was enough to bury me, but inside, I told myself to wait it out and that one day, I'd be able to break free. It's astounding at how long it took to get to that point but I eventually made it.
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Post by xara on Oct 3, 2009 12:18:21 GMT -5
Erika, Thanks for sharing your story. It is awful that they made you give up the things you loved. *Hugs*.
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Post by Sierra on Oct 3, 2009 15:04:28 GMT -5
15 is an age when a kid is learning who she is, learning to take responsibility for herself, learning the consequences of her own choices. It's the age when she ought to be trusted with more and more independence as she demonstrates that she can handle it. The awfulness of being clamped down on at that age, just when you should have been spreading your wings-- so terrible. It just makes me want to take the teenage you into my house and become your guardian, so I could let you go back to school with your friends. . . Gloriamarilyn too. Stuff like you're describing should never, ever have happened to you. It was so suffocating, but I felt at a loss of what to do at that age. I thought it might just be a phase my parents were going through that would end soon enough, but it got worse. Much worse. Up until that point, I had been a kid with good grades, good friends and well behaved. I was a confident kid that knew what I wanted to do with my life. To have it all ripped from me in one fell swoop was enough to bury me, but inside, I told myself to wait it out and that one day, I'd be able to break free. It's astounding at how long it took to get to that point but I eventually made it. Erika, I am so impressed with your resilience. I was only 7 when my mother joined a fundamentalist church, so I grew up having only a hazy notion of my options in life. Fortunately, though, my parents both supported education - I'd have been completely trapped if I hadn't gone to college, just like many girls I saw. I very much understand telling yourself to wait things out: people constantly complimented my "patience" as my world crumbled around the age of 14 (we got kicked out of our house when my father left us). I just remember thinking that it was all a challenge to which I had to rise. I told myself I had nothing to miss and looked forward since there was nothing really to look back on. Then, once I got away, I experienced levels of anxiety most undergraduates have no clue about, since I felt like all that hell was hot on my heels and if I didn't make something of my life and throw absolutely all of my energy into getting somewhere, I'd inevitably fall back and become what everyone at church wanted me to become: a drone.
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Post by kisekileia on Oct 3, 2009 17:30:20 GMT -5
Oh my gosh, that is heartbreaking. If you knew about what the girls did, could you go to the police or the court and tell them what you know?
I hope the girls are financially supporting their father now, since he probably still can't get work.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 5, 2009 12:37:26 GMT -5
There were quite a few people that went to the police and into the courts to testify for the father (including people from church) but the system didn't want to believe it.
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