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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Oct 26, 2009 5:56:48 GMT -5
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Post by grandmalou on Oct 26, 2009 6:55:21 GMT -5
Oh, my stars, Erika! How awful for you! Yes, dresses and skirts are cold! And I too, am convinced of a "not-so-hidden" agenda of making women dress in the accessible duds...I'm remembering Laura's post at one time about her husband saying he "couldn't love me in the way he wanted" if she was in pants...what a load of crap! And for those of us who loved to climb trees, etc., where did that leave us? I worked in casinos for many years, in Nevada. The 'standard' uniform for all of us (they used to call us penquins) was black on the bottom, white on the top. Pants for the men, skirts for the women. With high heels! Ouch! In 1978 I had some serious knee problems that required me to wear braces on them...I didn't want anybody seeing them, so requested that I be allowed to wear slacks...besides, the cold of winter made my already sore knees even more painful. I was turned down in my request...BUT was allowed to ditch the damn high heels. WHEW! So I went and bought myself a floor length black skirt, and by jinkies, when the bosses 'confronted me' over that skirt, I told them that they never said what length the skirt had to be. They couldn't argue that point with me, so decided to let it slide. Big of them, huh? I was such a rebel!
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Post by arietty on Oct 26, 2009 7:41:07 GMT -5
I was going to say I don't know who to feel more sorry for in that photo Erika, you or your brother, but I think it is definitely your brother. OUCH. Reading this made me reflect back on my own QF dressing days. I dressed very conservatively but with an eye to the feminine, though this was a very standardized feminine. I put aside my natural preferences in patterns (William Morris style, or "ethnic") and made sure my patterns were the acceptably sappy florals which I knew were not in any way my natural tastes. Now here's the thing.. when I dressed in my long skirts and conservative blouses (a matching set was a great find) with my hair pinned neatly back I felt.. safe. Protected. I felt like I was actually playing the role I wanted to play, that of a wife and mother who was making righteous choices for her family, a wife and mother who had God's approval and didn't need anybody else's. That was the role I wanted to play and those clothes were my costume. When I put them on they were very reassuring, an outward sign of being right with God. When I walked out of that conservative mindset I threw EVERYTHING away. I literally had almost no clothes left. I couldn't bear to save anything that was part of that costume because it all reminded that I'd been playing a role for years that was based on fears rather than any kind of reality.. about either God or my marriage. I couldn't hide behind those costumes any more. Discovering what I liked and loved in clothes, while not as powerful to me as music or reading, was still cathartic in the beginning. And fun! Even if I didn't have any money and everything was bought in thrift stores. I bought a pair of Doc Martens and wore them for years, they seemed to epitomize the old me that I had tried to obliterate for God and also were a real kick in the crotch to the godly-womanhood trip I'd swallowed. Yes yes woman are so delicate and need to be protected.. raises boot.. (I had secretly admired Doc Martens during my godly-womanhood years though I had never verbalized this to anyone.) My QF friend's daughters all wear pants with skirts or dresses over them, a total mishmash of unmatched, often ancient and weirdly shiny clothes. They are truly bizarre looking. I'm talking about a bridesmaid dress from the thrift store over baggy jeans and a white sweater over that. I know for a fact that this has affected them socially though of course this wouldn't bother the parents. Now enough about me (I always feel bad when I reply to these posts all about ME rather than responding directly to what was said in the post, like I'm being disrespectful to the person's story ).. Erika I cannot even imagine how HORRIBLE this would have been for a 14 year old. Okay well maybe I can imagine.. because I have teenage daughters and let me tell you "you can't wear that" would be the shot that started WWIII. And I don't actually say it, they can wear whatever they want but I know just HOW sensitive they are to the topic of clothes. How much wailing and gnashing of teeth there is over something not looking just right (my god it's boring to listen to for hours when they get obsessive, LOL). The lengths they will go to, the hours they will work to buy some (to my eyes totally overpriced) item.. well it's all about identity isn't it. Which is why I only roll my eyes waaaaaay out of sight of them. Identity. Clothes are one of the first things you start making big choices about in your interaction with the world, clothes tell the world who you are! That is why they are so vitally important to the teenager who is not really sure yet who she is and has to try on these expressions of her identity to see how they suit her and how her friends and boys and people she doesn't like and everyone else in the universe responds. Identity. And you had that taken from you, the identity you'd already formed and the chance to make choices about your identity. Instead you were told "this is who you are." Terrible. And of course the set up is you can't just wail against your Mom not letting you wear something because it's not your Mom it's GOD who picked out these clothes in the end. Terrible and I'm sure it only got worse.
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Post by aussiemama on Oct 26, 2009 10:12:29 GMT -5
Arietty, I love what you said about clothing and identity. For me it's also important that *I* think I look beautiful. If I don't feel beautiful myself, it doesn't matter who tells me I am, including my husband.
I choose to wear only skirts and dresses, but that's just it, it was my CHOICE. And I don't think it's wrong for women and girls to wear pants, it's just not something I choose to do. My husband wouldn't care if I wore pants, but he's very happy with the skirts and dresses.
I still change certain items of clothing every so often as I still am trying to figure out exactly who I am.
Erika I can relate to how you feel, when I was growing up my father told me I looked ridiculous in certain items of clothing and was therefore told I could only wear certain things, mostly jeans. I still don't care for jeans to this day lol. He told me that I'd never get a boyfriend because I had chosen to grow out my bangs and he said it was "ugly".
We have decided on a few basic rules for clothing in our family and then that our children ought to be allowed freedom of expression within those rules, even if we don't like that expression of trying to figure out who they are.
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Post by anatheist on Oct 26, 2009 12:27:51 GMT -5
Erika, your picture reminded me of the way I dressed when I was growing up.
I only recently thought about the motives behind it, but I was also the kid who was wearing ill-fitted piles of mis-matched clothes while my Christian school friends were wearing their Little House on the Prairie skirts. The few other girls who were "rebellious" were more sexualized- they would try to roll up their skirts or wear tight fitting things- and were frequently sent home to change. But besides the fact that my mother would never have sent me out of the house in something that was even slightly tight, that just wasn't me.
I collected my father's old shirts and ties and started wearing them to school on top of my skirts- sometimes as many as I could put on. I've never identified as wholly feminine- I'm not transsexual... but more gender neutral. Wearing those mens clothes when the whole point of the dress code was to turn the girls into completely feminine was my way of holding onto a gender identity that I didn't even know I had.
I have an aversion now to long skirts and to overly-large clothes. Because my mother was so afraid that my clothes would be too tight or revealing, she always made me wear things that were 1-2 sizes too large. Even when I wasn't wearing my father's clothes, I looked stupid. I had a pair of pants (which I was allowed to wear at home, just not to school or church) that I could pull straight down over my hips without unbuttoning or unzipping, because she was so paranoid that if they weren't that big, they would be snug around my butt. I am a very small, thin person and was then too, so I always looked like I was lost in my clothes.
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Post by hopewell on Oct 26, 2009 12:30:54 GMT -5
arietty, you took the words right out of my mouth! I pity you AND your brother in that picture.
It's the feelings you express that I remember so well when ever I was made to "dress up' as a tween & early teen in the 70s. And, those are the feelings I keep in mind if I absolutely have to veto a clothing choice from my own kids.
My sister made the biggest attempt to look like every other girl in the “church” and pretty soon, her wardrobe was filled with denim and calico jumpers and blouses with big collars. My mom’s wardrobe was quickly filling up with the same.
Someone tell me when/how this became the defacto "Uniform" of "true" Christian womanhood? These WERE fashionable in the late 80s/early 90s, but how did they become the epitome of all that is righteous? I cannot imagine, having been myself a tom boy who loved to ride bikes and play basketball, having to wear such awful clothing!!! I remember hiding at work and CRYING the first day I wore my then stylish, brand new Eddie Bauer denim jumper. I caught a look at my backside and realized not only did the thing look truly awful on me, but it gave me the appearance of a centaur! Not what I'd ever want a teenage girl to have to wear!!!
I always thought it was such a shame that their [mother/sisters] amazing talents went to waste on such frumpy and doudy clothing. Their work was always well done, but the patterns and fabric left much to be desired.
Maybe sewing and creating something helped keep them sane? I just visualize the horrible panda print jumpers, flowered jumpers and other awful bargain fabric creations the Duggar girls wore in their first few specials. Again, those fashions were in style for a brief period....but not by the time those specials aired!! I imagine some of the FLDS women also stay sane by focusing on producing a well maid dress rather than dwelling on the true appeal of the finished garmet.
I was looked at like the outcase and rebellious one by everyone in the church, as I would show up with mis-matched patterns, funky designs and my high-top sneakers with the bright red laces. Everyone pretended to humor me on the outside, but I heard the whispers and saw the sneers. Families would never let their girls get very close to me, as if I had some sort of rebellious inducing disease. Any time I was let close, there was always a parent around to make sure I wasn’t heathenizing their daughters
Another thing that has always bugged me about uber Conservative groups--why does all individuality have to be squashed? If a child is "trained up in the way he should go" and accepts the Lord as Saviour, why does it matter if she prefers to play basketball instead of rocking babies? For some reason, it really, really does though! Meek child-minding, slave-daughters [robot daughters?] are always preferred. It's as though the men KNOW the women are smarter and more capable and have to hide it so they can keep "face" and not have the other guys realize the wife and daughters are more intelligent.
Why must men and women be so rigidly separated in ways that may not be best for the family? If a wife is better able to support the family, or the husband is more laid back and nurturing why shouldn't they go that route? Brings me to the next in your "little shop of horors"
I remember Mr. Thompson feeding my father the line, “Take away everything that is important to your children and eventually, you’ll be the only thing left that’s important to them and they’ll cling to you.”
If I were trying to win my kids to my belief [instead I encourage, but don't force it!!] I'd not be trying to "win" them, not alienate them!! Pull the rug out from under teenagers and think they're going to meely submit? What planet were these parents of yours on? As for the idiot quoted above--when you've totally alienated your kids by taking all that they live for away, why, why, why would they LOVE you in return? Who ever thanked the Gestapo or KGB for making their lives a total hell? Seriously, people felt this would get you to obey them? Too much control always leads to sneaking around and trying to get "over".....
Totally bizarre, but as we all know, yours are not, were not, will not be the only parents who buy into it hook, line and sinker!
Great post--you pain is palpable!
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Post by xara on Oct 26, 2009 13:36:06 GMT -5
Yikes. It is scary that so many parents try to limit the choices of their teenagers. The teenage years are the time when we are learning how to become adults and what kind of adults we want to be. And that does take some experimentation with clothing and such. But if a kid can't be trusted to make a clothing choice, how on earth are they going to be prepared to make larger life decisions? It is by practicing in making these small decisions when we are young that we are prepared to make larger more life affecting decisions.
It seems to me that when parents do this sort of thing they are trying to prevent their kids from growing up. In which case why have kids at all? The whole point is to raise healthy responsible adults. If you keep them childlike, then they cannot possibly function as adults.
It is so backward, yet it totally fits with the Christian mindset, going back to the Garden of Eden stories. The way I read them, the tree of knowledge represents growing up and no longer being a child. And that is a good thing. But Christianity views this as a tragedy and the source of all evil in the world. I would rather be an adult who makes my own choices and the occasional mistake but learns from them and grows into a stronger healthier person than be a perpetual child who is not prepared to face any challenge.
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Post by margybargy on Oct 26, 2009 13:59:49 GMT -5
Oh Erika, your story is so sad. I know it has a happy ending though. I'm very curious as to why your parents were so influenced by this Mr. Thompson. Why did they think he was such an expert? It sounds like they had some very good kids. Why fix what's not broken? Why couldn't they just appreciate their wonderful kids as they are? Surely there were other kids in town who were skipping school, getting in fights and getting bad grades. Here you were with lots of friends, good grades, involved in sports and they want to put you in a potato sack and lock you in the house. Didn't it break their hearts to see you so sad and miserable? I don't get it.
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Post by Sierra on Oct 26, 2009 14:13:55 GMT -5
Oh, Erika... I don't know that I've ever imagined what it's like to be hit with all of these restrictions at that, probably the worst time in your life. Your post really is a window into how horrible these beliefs treat young women. Since I was only 7 when it started in my family, I had no secular memories to fall back on. Restrictions crept gradually into my life, so I could only dimly see in other people's lives what I was missing. How horrible to know and then be deprived of it all...
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lectio
Full Member
growing...
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Post by lectio on Oct 26, 2009 14:24:36 GMT -5
Erika, Your story is so powerful and you are such a good story-teller... Thank you for sharing it with all of us... Arrietty: When I walked out of that conservative mindset I threw EVERYTHING away. I literally had almost no clothes left. I couldn't bear to save anything that was part of that costume because it all reminded that I'd been playing a role for years that was based on fears rather than any kind of reality.. about either God or my marriage. I couldn't hide behind those costumes any more.
Discovering what I liked and loved in clothes, while not as powerful to me as music or reading, was still cathartic in the beginning. And fun! Even if I didn't have any money and everything was bought in thrift stores. I bought a pair of Doc Martens and wore them for years, they seemed to epitomize the old me that I had tried to obliterate for God and also were a real kick in the crotch to the godly-womanhood trip I'd swallowed. Yes yes woman are so delicate and need to be protected.. raises boot.. (I had secretly admired Doc Martens during my godly-womanhood years though I had never verbalized this to anyone.) love this.
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Post by mandajanie on Oct 26, 2009 17:56:21 GMT -5
Hahaha!! Brad looks like such a dork in that picture!! I love it. Would he die if he knew you posted it here? You look like you are wearing big frumpy clothes, but somehow your face and personality pull it off. I think controlling clothes is an attempt to control someone's identity. like, I know my mom was crazy and would make horribly snide comments when I wore something she disapproved of. It's a manipulation technique: if I can control what she wears, I can control who she is. Sadly (?!) for my mom it didn't work. All I did was look at her, and decide if it's something she'd never wear than I had to be lookin' good 'cause she was NOT! My parents never said to wear only skirts and dresses, but my mom in particular did like it when I wore loose baggy clothing. She seemed to feel bad when I looked good. Maybe this is because she's old, fat and doesn't take care of herself (like, not even brushing her hair!), and the more I took care of myself and the more it showed how badly she was in comparison? Oddly enough, I wear skirts and dresses almost exclusively now, although I didn't while I was living with my parents. It's like now that I'm away from my parents I can wear the skirts and dresses *I* like... which are not the least bit huge and frumpy. They are cute and attractive and the A-line makes me look less pear shaped. My mom, like your dad, tried to take away anything important to me, or at least have a hand it in so that I could no longer call my own shots on anything. The last few years I lived at home, I was working either as a lab assistant or at the library. I could shop, and spend my own money, but heaven forbid I did! My mom had to know where I was every minute of every day. I was in college and a had a job, but she wanted my entire schedule printed out, so she could check and see where I was every hour of every day. I remember once, when I was in my 20s, I got permission to go to a friends house after work. I told my mom it'd be about an hour or so. Exactly one hour after work I began getting cell phone calls. She called me like 6 times and left 2 voice mails in HALF AN HOUR. I had my phone on silent thank God. What would my friend had thought?!? Hello! I was 23 years old and got 6 calls and two voice mails from my mom for being half an hour 'late' (late, being up to interpretation because I said 'an hour OR SO' when I told my mom I'd be gone). Anyhow... because her restraints kept me from having friends the entire time I was in college. I had to be in class, or at work, and then come straight home. The time I went with a friend (actually, she was a co-worker) that I just wrote about was the one and only time I ever tried to do something with a friend in college. And I was so embarrassed and mortified over my mother's actions -and the subsequent temper tantrum (complete with stomping upstairs and slamming doors!!) that she threw when I returned home that I never asked to see a friend again. Isn't that sad?!? I'm a nice person, I could've had friends in college. But I never did. I basically wasn't allowed to.
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Post by arietty on Oct 26, 2009 19:08:18 GMT -5
I have an aversion now to long skirts and to overly-large clothes. Because my mother was so afraid that my clothes would be too tight or revealing, she always made me wear things that were 1-2 sizes too large. Even when I wasn't wearing my father's clothes, I looked stupid. I had a pair of pants (which I was allowed to wear at home, just not to school or church) that I could pull straight down over my hips without unbuttoning or unzipping, because she was so paranoid that if they weren't that big, they would be snug around my butt. I am a very small, thin person and was then too, so I always looked like I was lost in my clothes. I've known families whose daughters are dressed like that, in massive sweatshirts and hugely blown out skirts that brushed the floor. The boys by contrast are dressed in relatively normal looking clothes, conservative pants and a shirt buttoned up to the top. They are not made to hide the very shape of their bodies. There is something weird going on when the natural shape of a girl's body is something to erase. This is a different sort of attitude than just the neat prairie dresses or white blouse and denim skirt fashions. When you see a whole string of girls dressed in what amounts to sacks trailing after mom it's very alarming. What I don't get about my QF friend is that though she dresses conservatively, always a skirt etc.. she does not stand out or dress weirdly in any way. Her kids are TOTAL weirdos and are reknown for their terrible clothes. Yet their mom doesn't make choices like this for herself. Their mom would NOT go out in a bridesmaid dress with baggy jeans under it.
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Post by arietty on Oct 26, 2009 19:22:56 GMT -5
I only did the dresses thing for about 6 months...my husband LOVED it...but when he started bragging to his friends about literally wearing the pants in the family, I stopped. It just really bothered me (I was still under the impression, then, that he was holy and godly and amazing, so to see something so "fleshly" in him concerned me, and I didn't want to be the source for his pride...and, besides, I hated the dresses...the ones he loved best were the most shapeless prairie style ones, of course, too.....I am just now getting to the poitn where I can put on a skirt every now and then). His big thing was anything that looked attractive. I was to look nice, clean cut, but not attractive, if that makes any sense. Anything that he felt was sexual, or too form-fitting, or too revealing, was out. Shirts had to come to the neck. Pants couldn't be too tight. So my main wardrobe was loose jeans and t-shirt style tops with high necks... My ex-husband would only comment positively if I was dressed very unattractively. I was very naive (wanted to always believe the best about him) for much too long a time and I never could understand this. If I asked him how I looked and I was dressed nicely he had a standard reply: "it looks better than a pile of shit". Yes this is what I heard and why I kept asking I have no idea. If it was the plainest ugliest thing in the world he might say it looked good. I remember getting given a bunch of maternity dresses once for summer, some were very pretty hippy style ones. He hated all of them. There was one "dress" which was quite likely a failed sewing project. It was a lurid plaid and was like a huge square sheet. I had tried it on as a joke, it was completely shapeless. That was the only one he liked. I remember arguing with him--I couldn't believe he didn't see that this wasn't actually a dress in any sense of the word but he stuck to his guns, that was the only one that was any good. Eventually I came across the word to describe him--misogynist. He really hated anything to do with women and anything traditionally associated with female-ness. He hated women who dyed their hair, hated stockings, hated shaving your legs, LOATHED makeup of any kind, hated jewelery especially pierced ears. He also hated short hair on women but I think he saw that as uppity in some way. He was deeply sarcastic of my QF friend behind her back because she loved lipstick. He even hated bras and thought it was "vain" to wear them (I ignored this of course). It was something of a revelation to see that this was not about religion or personal taste or God's "plan" for women, it was about his personal deeply rooted misogyny. He had hated all those things before he became a christian. His depth of female hatred was so great that he also hated commercials on tv for breast cancer research or any woman on television talking about having breast cancer. He would literally begin spewing obscenities at the television if he saw this, calling these women whores and leeches on society. Nowadays I almost always wear skirts because I don't have a good body shape for pants. I like skirts, I like the colours and patterns they come in. I do NOT own or wear nor will I ever again own or wear a denim skirt!! I like to wear skirts with my Doc Martens Just like with music it took me a while to rediscover what I truly loved. What did you wear pre-fundy days Molly? Or pre-Christian days? Remember the V-neck flatters your face (not just your boobs).
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Post by whatkindofwoman on Oct 26, 2009 20:47:09 GMT -5
The last few years I lived at home, I was working either as a lab assistant or at the library. I could shop, and spend my own money, but heaven forbid I did! My mom had to know where I was every minute of every day. I was in college and a had a job, but she wanted my entire schedule printed out, so she could check and see where I was every hour of every day. I remember once, when I was in my 20s, I got permission to go to a friends house after work. I told my mom it'd be about an hour or so. Exactly one hour after work I began getting cell phone calls. She called me like 6 times and left 2 voice mails in HALF AN HOUR. I had my phone on silent thank God. What would my friend had thought?!? Hello! I was 23 years old and got 6 calls and two voice mails from my mom for being half an hour 'late' (late, being up to interpretation because I said 'an hour OR SO' when I told my mom I'd be gone). oh, WOW. WOW! My mother did that to me, too!!! Here's an understanding and supportive ((((Hug)))) from my past self to your past self. Wish I could send it back in time to when your mom was making you crazy during college years. (Wow!)
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Post by sargassosea on Oct 27, 2009 8:48:55 GMT -5
Mandajanie - In high school I had a very good friend whose mother sounds very much like yours - physically unkempt, very preoccupied with her kids' comings and goings. My friend and I ran into each other after being out of contact for awhile and when I asked about her mom she just lit up! Turns out that her mom had had a brain tumor that started when she was a teenager and had been slowly growing, unnoticed, for all those years. Her mom had recently had it removed and was, viola', totally "normal". ****** Erika - I'm ashamed to say that I haven't yet taken the time to read your installment - bad Sea! I will though, soon
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Post by amyrose on Oct 27, 2009 9:07:41 GMT -5
I tend to flip radio stations incessantly on my 35 minute commute (must get an iPod adaptor before I drive myself crazy!). This morning, I stopped for a bit on "Focus on the Family". My friends, husband and parents are constantly telling me to stay away from listening to that crap since it makes me angry...but it's like a train wreck and I can't step away.
So this week, "Focus on the Family" radio is having "great families" week. They featured this morning a father and a very young sounding girl (tween or very early teens). Apparently, the family has five daughters and lives in some isolated place, home schools and possibly home churches in some way (didn't catch enough to know for sure, but it sounded as if they have completely isolated these kids from outside influences). The father was explaining why they did this, because apparently there was some point where they went to a regular church and their older daugthers went to school.
Basically, he gave the standard deteriorating culture, families under attack lines, but one thing stood out to me and made my blood boil. And it relates perfectly to Erica's story...he said that as a father, he realized that he needed to "have control" and sending his girls to school and out into the world causes him to "lose that control". He also said that "control" is more important because he has girls not boys.
I think "control" is the bottom line of the patriarchy movement. And it sickens me that these men believe that their wives and children are theirs to control. There is no basic human dignity in that.
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 27, 2009 9:25:25 GMT -5
he said that as a father, he realized that he needed to "have control" and sending his girls to school and out into the world causes him to "lose that control". He also said that "control" is more important because he has girls not boys. I think "control" is the bottom line of the patriarchy movement. And it sickens me that these men believe that their wives and children are theirs to control. There is no basic human dignity in that. That man's words hit the nail on the head for what patriarchy is all about. Control. You are so right! This movement is spear headed by insecure men on a power trip that feel the only way they can get their fix is to control and manipulate the only people that will put up with it. Their wives and children, especially the girls. And in turn, they raise their sons to be the same way. Insecure cowards and bullies. So sickening!
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Post by stampinmama on Oct 27, 2009 9:33:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry I was MIA yesterday. I had a big workload and a lot of deadlines to meet. I'll be catching up on comments today.
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Post by hopewell on Oct 27, 2009 10:34:27 GMT -5
mandajanie I can't imagine! All of these stories make me so grateful for the parents I had and make me loosen up more with my own kids!
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anne2
New Member
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Post by anne2 on Oct 27, 2009 13:09:13 GMT -5
This same nonsense happened to our boys but was pushed by the nutty church we were in which by all appearances is actually quite mainline - a presbyterian group from the southern U.S.A now in Canada. In particular an elder and his wife constantly harassed our kids, telling them that how they dressed said what they thought about God. But never did they say anything to us, the parents, which is odd since our kids had no control over what was purchased for them to wear. Our kids were told they should wear ties because it was pleasing to God and their top buttons had to be done up. It never let up and every meeting the kids were always being harassed, accused of wrongdoing, actually physically hit, verbally abused and manipulated - all without our knowledge. I watched this particular pair being equally mean to other kids. My husband overheard this elder telling the pastor that our "kids were very bad."
The situation got so bad that my 10 year old threatened suicide and my 12 year old became disturbingly withdrawn and then violent. That's when we left. Of course the elders and provisional session ignored why we left when we told them on paper exactly why. We were bad, because we left. Period. We were the bad ones and we to this day are supposed to go back and "make it right."
We were given a letter telling us that because we had left we had "committed spiritual suicide." The pastor held a congregational meeting and told them we were "in the abyss." A member there ran into my husband at the mall 6 mos. after we'd left and asked if we still go to church.
Two other families came to us and asked if we would start a petition to have something done about it. We refused. Their proper channels didn't work - session and then presbytery - how on earth would a petition do anything? That's not our job either. My kids are my job. And we got them out, alive.
Today, my sons are healthy, happy, productive, all serving and living in some way involving their faith. Normal. Nothing over the top, bizarre. One son still is holding back in an area he is gifted, but at least can talk about it now.
All because of how someone else wanted to control every aspect of my kid's lives starting with their clothes. :/
Just writing this makes me want to go throw up.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Oct 27, 2009 13:58:27 GMT -5
... All because of how someone else wanted to control every aspect of my kid's lives starting with their clothes. :/ Just writing this makes me want to go throw up. anne2 ~ thank you for sharing. So glad you were able to see clearly enough to get your kids out of that horrible abusive church situation.
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Post by whatkindofwoman on Oct 27, 2009 16:03:06 GMT -5
That's not our job either. My kids are my job. And we got them out, alive. Preach it, sister!!!
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Post by verklempt on Oct 27, 2009 16:43:21 GMT -5
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Post by mandajanie on Oct 27, 2009 23:37:47 GMT -5
Whatawoman, wow, you're mom was insane too?! I'm sorry! My mom still is insane. She didn't even come to my wedding in May (in which Erika was a bridesmaid! . But that's okay, I don't need that kind of destructive person in my life. And, as you can tell, I have awesome gal pals to support me. Sargassosea, yikes, how freaky. I'm pretty sure my mom doesn't have a brain tumor as she can behave nicely, such as when around strangers or something. She has one personality she puts on for strangers and another that she 'wears' at home. So, I'm pretty sure she's physically fine. Hopewell, yes! Be nice to your kids, LOL! I'm sure you'd never do anything like my mom, though. I tell my husband that I don't want kids until I'm mature enough to handle them, 'cause I don't want to turn into my mom!
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Post by tapati on Oct 28, 2009 0:33:06 GMT -5
You know how magazines will take a particular quote and separate it from the text in larger size for emphasis? This is one of those quotes. Anyone who really thinks about it can see how diabolical it is. We as parents are supposed to raise our children to become independent, capable adults able to think for themselves and function in the world. They are not here for us, to fulfill our needs or our personal agenda.
It's obvious also that he treated the adults exactly like this. Take everything away from them with all the rules and restrictions and they'll be like little children, depending on him.
UGH.
I'm so sorry you all fell into his trap. And it was a trap!
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