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Post by rosa on Nov 11, 2009 15:35:46 GMT -5
sorry about all the question marks - i pieced that together from googled sources, I don't get to watch all these tv shows.
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juju
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Post by juju on Nov 11, 2009 15:38:34 GMT -5
Yes, Alicia Jeub was estranged from her family for several years, at her stepfather's insistence. She also had a child out of wedlock. And I have to tell you that if I'd been Wendy Jeub and my husband told me I could not talk to my own child when she obviously needed my help, I'd have told him to perform a biologically impossible act of self-reproduction.
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Post by lamissgirl on Nov 11, 2009 16:28:13 GMT -5
I watched the show last night and am SOOOO glad I did. I've been a lurker on this site for quite some time. I also saw the Joy Behar segment. Vyckie, you did an excellent job, and I was so proud of you. After lurking here for so long, I feel I almost know you.. so that made it all the more exciting. You represented your position with such poise & grace. But the real **star** of the show was Angel. Oh my gosh- for such a young person, I was just amazed at how well she articulated her thoughts and feelings and experiences. Angel, you should be so proud of yourself as I know you Mom and rest of your family is. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all that you, Vyckie, and your family are doing to get your message out there to hopefully "save" some others from this trap of patriarchy.
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Post by arietty on Nov 11, 2009 23:23:45 GMT -5
The Jeubs are estranged from another daughter as well, she is overseas and has little to do with them. I think she might be just Wendy's child.
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Post by jadehawk on Nov 12, 2009 2:29:05 GMT -5
from the jeub's twitter-feed:
that made me literally laugh out loud; I couldn't help it.
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Post by whatkindofwoman on Nov 12, 2009 11:02:41 GMT -5
(has anyone noticed that there are very few African-Americans in the Christian patriarchy movement , except for a few puppets like Voddie Baucham?) No! Missed that one. Wow. and I pray that God will continue to bless her and her family as she walks in the liberty where Christ has set her free! Exactly!
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calulu
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Post by calulu on Nov 12, 2009 14:27:27 GMT -5
Finally downloaded this and watched it on Itunes. Still sorting out what I think but here are a few impressions. Holy crap! What a load of nonsense!
The Jeubs just rub me the wrong way and Rachel Scott completely contradicted just about everything she said on the Joy Behar show. Amazing.
I wish they would have addressed the Jeub daughters that have been cut off, if nothing else to show how rigid, unforgiving and judgemental that type of life can be.
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juju
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Post by juju on Nov 12, 2009 15:22:57 GMT -5
On the subject of how rigid and unforgiving that lifestyle can be, I know this is OT but I just happened to think of a TV show I saw about the "Purity Ball" movement and the families that participate in all that. I think it's a big QF/Vision Forum thing, isn't it?
Anyway they interviewed a woman who went through the whole purity pledge as a teenager and then she ended up getting pregnant by her "chosen" boyfriend. Her family totally flipped out and decreed that she HAD to marry him IMMEDIATELY and basically treated her like crap. Then she miscarried, before she had a chance to marry the guy, and she decided she did not want to marry him after all.
The upshot is that her family doesn't speak to her anymore. She married someone she found on her own and she's going to college and her family just totally cut her off -- basically for living her own life and not letting her father dictate what she was going to do forever.
That's the kind of thing I think of when I hear these people preaching love. I think of that woman, and I think of Wendy Jeub's oldest daughters and how she let herself get sucked into the patriarchy trap and it became more important to her than her own children.
I felt so sad for Vyckie during the TV show when she said that the realization she came to was that she was putting everyone and everything else ahead of her kids, and it just about killed her when she figured it out. It took a lot of strength for her to say "I am sorry, and things will change" to her children. The fact that they knew her love was real and unconditional I think is what got them through the transition.
Women like Wendy Jeub have bought the whole program, but at what cost to their kids?
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Post by rosa on Nov 12, 2009 17:00:47 GMT -5
Juju, I went to high school in a pretty fundie area (not too far from Grandmalou, actually - and my dad lives not too far from Norfolk, where Vyckie lives) and families don't even have to be *that* religiously conservative to kick out girls for getting pregnant. I could name at least three homeless or self-supporting (or living with a much older man) teen moms for every year I was in high school. All with "religious" parents who kicked them out. And there were only around 200 people in my graduating class. Or, even worse, they think the baby is a punishment for her sinning and make her have it & treat her with that punitive attitude the whole time. Often because that's how they became parents - i've heard *way* too many women say "well, that's what you get when you have fun. You pay the price. It's not like I wanted my kids when they were born."
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juju
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Post by juju on Nov 12, 2009 17:51:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I was raised fundie too but I just don't get it. I mean, yeah, if your teenage daughter comes home pregnant you are going to be sad and disappointed. The thing is, these people focus so much on the loss of purity and the fact that the girl is "damaged goods" and they seem to miss how drastically her life is going to change and how much harder things are going to be for her now.
I think what bothers me so much is that they are more upset about the reflection on THEM than they are on the immediate needs of the pregnant girl and her baby. There is a time to moralize and a time to just say "Well, okay, it's done. Now what are we going to do about this?"
But to throw her out? She's still your child, you still love her with all your heart and soul, and what possible good can come from leaving not just your child, but HER child homeless and struggling?
And they are doing this all while preaching to everyone who will listen about how children are a gift from the lord and should be treasured as such. As long as, you know, they are conceived the right way and everything.
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Post by rosa on Nov 12, 2009 18:12:29 GMT -5
Did you ever see the movie Saved? It has a scene where the actors use dialogue that I hear a lot and it always makes me want to scream. The girl gets pregnant and her mom is all "Oh, honey, I just don't want you to have to do this on your own, it's so hard..." Hey, mom, you know what would make her not be on her own? IF YOU HELP HER. That makes it less hard. There are studies & stuff about that. SO SHUT UP AND HELP.
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Post by margybargy on Nov 13, 2009 6:47:28 GMT -5
Finally got a chance to watch it. Great job Vyckie and Angel.
Observation about Rachel Scott: As y'all have already pointed out what she said in the documentary completely contradicted what she said on Joy's show. The family looks pretty normal, but then there's Rachel's whackaloon book. Cognitive dissonance.
Observation about the Jeub's: They painted a rosier picture in this show, but I saw a special about them before where the mom was saying how people would drop off bags of used clothes on their front porch. That's not god providing, sweetie, that's your neighbors. I hope you're thanking them, too. How can such a lifestyle possibly be feasible on a large scale?
Observation on both: Two QF families, two oldest daughters with kids born out of wedlock. Give credit to the Scotts, they are supporting their daughter. It's interesting that this happened in two high-profile QF families. Very interesting, indeed.
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Post by Guest on Nov 13, 2009 8:31:15 GMT -5
Hi, I've been lurking here a little after watching the Secret Lives of Women show the other day. I just wanted to let you all know you don't have to buy it from the itunes store. WE usually reruns the previous weeks episode before the new episode (or it might be after). They play a few different reruns the the hours before & after the new episode so you'll have to read the description or watch a few of them.
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calulu
Junior Member
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Post by calulu on Nov 13, 2009 9:28:27 GMT -5
My cable provider doesn't offer We. Itunes is the only place to get out outside of We right now.
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Post by humbletigger on Nov 13, 2009 10:04:23 GMT -5
I was only logging on to say how happy I am for Angel and all of the other children!
But now I am bummed reading about the ostracization of Alicia Jeub and wishing she could come live with me. Alicia, if you're out there and you want help escaping, I have room at my house! to_shadowspring@yahoo.com
I stood by my Christian home school daughter, not understanding why she was so angry, bitter and depressed, but determined to love her and stand by her no matter what. I was totally ostracized by the home school community- on the Christian side because I let my daughter dress Goth, listen to secular music and have real pirvacy in her room and her thoughts, plus my son had a mohawk and spiked it with colored hair gel! I thought is was just the extremism of the area I had recently moved to, but now I know it was extremism taking hold in Christian home schooling in general.
We were also ostracized by the secular home school groups on other grounds- that we were religious at all or too structured in our learning, etc. It's been hard.
But now I am so happy that I had the strength to endure all that rejection and judgement and continue to love my daughter! She is thriving now , in college, finding who she wants to be. She made some mistakes along the way, but we never pushed her away for any of them. Loving her is way more important to us than looking good in the eyes of any outsider.
(Like Vickye and Angel it was a sucky marriage that was making life so hard for my daughter; unlike Vickye my husband got a clue and is mending his ways so we are all experiencing healing together! =)
Anyway, best wishes to all! Enjoy the good life God has given you, and if you don't believe in God, enjoy the good life you find yourself living! Peace.
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Post by rosa on Nov 13, 2009 11:23:17 GMT -5
Humbletigger, the free jinger board posted a link to places Alicia Jeub had posted on televisionwithoutpity, and she sounds like she's doing really well now. Her son is ADORABLE, she has his picture up on facebook. (holy crow i'm getting overinvolved, here. It's like Star Magazine but for fundamentalists.)
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Nov 13, 2009 13:18:31 GMT -5
Alicia, if you're out there and you want help escaping, I have room at my house! I second that! In a way, these girls are almost like the equivalent of the "lost boys" of the FLDS. Just tossed aside, collateral damage of the movement. I've had the thought of establishing a college fund to help girls who want to get out QF, and a network of homes that would take them in and help them through that process. Because in that area, they are like the lost boys as well - they probably don't have the skillset necessary to be successful in college. I have no idea how to go about it, though.
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Post by Sierra on Nov 13, 2009 13:34:35 GMT -5
Alicia, if you're out there and you want help escaping, I have room at my house! I second that! In a way, these girls are almost like the equivalent of the "lost boys" of the FLDS. Just tossed aside, collateral damage of the movement. I've had the thought of establishing a college fund to help girls who want to get out QF, and a network of homes that would take them in and help them through that process. Because in that area, they are like the lost boys as well - they probably don't have the skillset necessary to be successful in college. I have no idea how to go about it, though. This is a great idea to incorporate into the NLQ charitable foundation. I would love to be able to house escapees and help them into college (especially as I plan to be a professor) but it will take time until I am settled with an income. Ugh, the Jeub family website is a real trainwreck. I can hardly contain the wave of revulsion at their patronising graciousness in "taking Alicia back" after the "horrible" things she's done. Such condescending BS. It's this comment that a reader posted that's really scary: I understand that you could not have a “bad example” in the home but wonder what you could have done to help out someone who was so faithful to the family for so long. Don’t leave her — unless she forsakes Christ any other problems can be overcome.Because once she quits Christianity, she is no longer a person, right? Then she's not a part of your family anymore. You don't have to love her then, do you? Then she's just one of those lost souls out there trying to drag the rest of your shiny little arrows into the pit of hell. And if they leave Christ, too, when they're old enough to think, you can just keep cutting them off... because you'll just keep replacing them anyway. Because children aren't people, they're collectibles. ... I don't have words for the way I hate this.
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Post by tapati on Nov 13, 2009 16:55:57 GMT -5
Please everyone, don't post email addresses in proper format online, anywhere! Spambots troll the web for them, no humans needed, and next thing you know you'll get tons more spam. use some format like youremail {AT} domain {dot} com or other version. I mix them up a lot in case they start looking for a particular string of characters that get commonly used. I just want to help keep y'all as free from spam as possible.
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Post by km on Nov 13, 2009 20:00:46 GMT -5
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Post by amyrose on Nov 13, 2009 20:22:49 GMT -5
That whole website makes my stomach turn. Check out the politics page...
The post where Chris lays out his well thought out reasons for predicting that McCain was going to win the election a year ago is pretty funny, though.
And the post titled "The Jeub Endorsement for President" is really funny just for the arrogance of it--as if either campaign was holding their breath for some random Fundie to endorse.
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Post by tapati on Nov 13, 2009 20:39:10 GMT -5
OK, so even if she was in truth a danger to her siblings in some way (though I disagree)--there is a solution besides "remove her from the family" and reject her totally. They could have seen her apart from the other children in some neutral place, one at a time if they couldn't get a sitter for their enormous family.
There is nothing that could make me disown one of my children or grandchildren or cut off contact. Nothing.
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Post by margybargy on Nov 14, 2009 5:37:21 GMT -5
This bit got to me: "We tried to set up counseling appointments, but they never seemed to work with our schedules." What?! Shouldn't you make time for something like that? If you're all about kids, kids, kids - shouldn't a counseling session with one of your troubled kids be a top priority? Even one of those "scary feminist career women" with only two kids would typically make time for a counseling appointment. Do these people just not have time to take their kids to...say...the dentist? I just....I...I don't know what to say. Another fundie logic bust. My brain hurts. *sigh*
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Post by Sierra on Nov 14, 2009 7:57:14 GMT -5
I agree, margybargy. The time excuse does not fly when it's the difference between cancelling some other commitment and kicking your daughter out of your life for three years.
I am also a bit troubled about Alicia's return. Surely this means returning to doing things the way her parents want her to, living under their "guidance" (control), and being tacitly manipulated into gratitude for both of the above. We are supposed to think the Jeubs are oh such kind and good Christians for taking her back - but if "forgiveness" it at stake anywhere in this situation it's she who should be forgiving them.
I wonder if it's really so good for Alicia that she's back in contact with her family. Who has been her support system for the past three years? Is it possible she's better off without her parents' interference?
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Post by margybargy on Nov 14, 2009 9:31:53 GMT -5
I agree, margybargy. The time excuse does not fly when it's the difference between cancelling some other commitment and kicking your daughter out of your life for three years.? I know, right? That's just plain outrageous. Getting right with my kid would be top priority. I am also a bit troubled about Alicia's return. Surely this means returning to doing things the way her parents want her to, living under their "guidance" (control), and being tacitly manipulated into gratitude for both of the above. We are supposed to think the Jeubs are oh such kind and good Christians for taking her back - but if "forgiveness" it at stake anywhere in this situation it's she who should be forgiving them. I wonder if it's really so good for Alicia that she's back in contact with her family. Who has been her support system for the past three years? Is it possible she's better off without her parents' interference? Yeah. That post was from January 2007, nothing since then. I wonder what's transpired. On the show, they just sort of briefly mentioned an un-named older daughter and said she was out of the country. (I think I got that right.) Maybe, she just went home to get back on her feet, then ran like heck. Hopefully, she's developed some defenses against her parents' toxic holier-than-thou attitude. (When I'm around my crazy family I just keep thinking, "Remember, you're the sane one" over and over.) Prodigal daughter...bleachh. It sounds like the Jeubs are really tangled up in their underwear when it comes to religion. Their priorities seem way out of whack. Or maybe I'm just not being very charitable. Not enough info to tell really.
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