jo
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by jo on Feb 26, 2010 17:40:08 GMT -5
Lynn Paddock was abusive before she subscribed to Pearl. The deense tried to implicate Pearl and the prosecutors used it to nail Lynn Paddock to the wall. She actually had veered off of Pearl's prescribed teaching. He doesn't recommend binding a child *that age*. So, he and the prosecutors argued it was ALL her.
What no one talked about is that even trying to use his method took a known abuser to that edge. She still jumped off that ledge on her own. He just held her hand to get her there.
This case is different. Sean Paddock was killed in a fit of rage. Lydia Schitz died from a slow, methodically series of training sessions. She died of kidney failure because her kidneys could not process the severe, long-term break down of tissue from those training sessions.
Her parents were likely following Pearl to the absolute letter of the law. And, Lydia was probably dying before that last training session even started. In fact, that training session was probably because she was not physically capable of reading that last work correctly because the toxins of her kidney failure was building up. That training sessions set her mother into a situation where she didn't recognize the delirrium, the confusion and the coming death because she was too focused and busy on training her.
For Lydia, that last beating wasn't the one that killed her. It was the 3 years of systematic Pearl training that finally killed her from the inside out. And, I honestly don't know how Pearl is going to get out of culpability this time. I know why the Christian community was able to ignore Sean's death. Lynn was an abuser without Pearl's materials. I don't see ANY evidence that the Schartz were abusive until they implemented Pearl in their home. And, I'm not seeing anything to say they did anything but follow the letter of the system 100%...to the death of their child.
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Post by coleslaw on Feb 26, 2010 18:14:18 GMT -5
I am fairly certain that the saying, "whoever defines the terms wins the debate" has been around before Doug Phillips. He seems to have given it his own special stamp by losing a few of the words that make it make sense.
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nimue
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by nimue on Feb 26, 2010 21:26:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think he can be held criminally responsible. He didn't hit those children. And he carefully covers himself by saying parents shouldn't abuse their children. Writing books advocating something is not the same as doing it yourself. There are lots of books that advocate and instruct on the use and production of various drugs, some of which (meth) are quite dangerous. However, I do think he could be held financially liable in a civil court. www.answers.com/topic/ku-klux-klan
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Post by corardens on Feb 27, 2010 7:04:41 GMT -5
And when they use extreme cases to justify this form of chastisement, it sounds quite common-sensical. To paraphrase one of their points crudely: If a young child insists upon playing on the freeway in direct disobedience to the parent, is it better to let him become road-pizza, or to spank him and save his life? Most people, when reading it framed in this manner would think, "Of course it's better to spank him than to let him get killed." Auuuugh, false analogy! Dastardly, commonly employed logical fallacy. Good thing I never found these books while shelving at my library job, I'd have begun slipping in bookmarks with websites like www.logicalfallacies.info printed on them. But I guess I'd end up doing that for sooo many books...
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Post by janedoe on Mar 1, 2010 11:54:01 GMT -5
To demystify some more...for those who may have triggers with this God and Rod thing [lol, God and Rod, sorry just sounded funny]
OK well this issue like I said, is just one that I can't even Use the word discipline and the 'rod' thing in any similar tone that is used by the Pearls and like, even some of the other Christian discussions on this just make me jump out of my skin, I can't 'detach' from it, you know how some people can sit and have tea and scones and talk about these things as if it were the daily events or town gossip and be detached or as if they are observing them,
can't do that here--but you know you get to the point where it's like OK God you know if I'm ever going to get Beyond this to where I can not fall down that whole Vertigo spiral of the dark abyss there has to be Something to help heal, or deconstruct,
so I am not always in this state of the binges of feeling as if my mind and heart are in a straight-jacket.
And though I did not search to deconstruct This issue like I did where women are concerned, I found something, then like this quilt of beliefs I had--had for so long in the recesses of my thoughts, this God of Abuse, Child Abuse [again, I am posting this here to maybe help those who are struggling and NOT to be pushing 'religion' here], this whole wheel thing I would get on and I would scream at God at His sick twisted power ego need to crush, crush, and crush...
how much more do I have to loath myself before you are full God I would say so much in my heart and why didn't you Put a 'thou shall not abuse thy children' and only a 'honor thy father [mine I have maybe two memories brief of] and thy mother'? Oh, so YOU'RE a child abuser too huh God...oh yea, this was one of the Roots that would Always come up and I would curse it all--him, the gods, the dominion,
anyway, without going into all the gory details here [maybe I'll write about it one day on my blog, maybe not] lets just say, this was probably the huge trigger for me, where faith was concerned and it was really intertwined with the other abusive relationships I would through life, be drawn to on a deeper psychological level even After knowing how to set boundaries, those threads were still there.
After reading again about this issue here, the other day was reading in Exodus, and it jumped out at me, and again, and again, and like a light goes off, you know how you will see something in a whole different light, well,
that whole Rod thing, spare the rod spoil the child, I had Tried to deconstruct this by telling myself that the rod was just a staff used to steer sheep, etc., and that these nut-jobs were just confusing what Rod meant--it didn't go Deep enough though to deconstruct and to reveal to me, personally that God wasn't in support/condoning the child abuse I grew up with,
but then I saw it--so to Demystify here, to help maybe someone going through this...
in Exodus, when God took the Hebrew people out of Egypt, Moses of course was given a Rod. Several times God told Moses to use that rod for something,
further on, the are delivered and in the wilderness and they come to a place where there is no Water. The people start complaining to Moses that God has brought them there to kill them in the desert with their children, etc., Moses goes to God and says, you know they about to lynch my ass [well don't say that but it's the gist of it] and what do I do, and God says,
take the Rod, and strike the rock and so Moses did and Water gushed out.
So, I'm reading this [and this happened more than once, through out Exodus and in other places in OT] and I remember, near the end where Moses [similar situ] God said strike the rock and he did but he was angry and told the people you're stupid rebellious people and then a bit later, God told Him due to his unbelief he wouldn't go to the 'physical' promise land, [not the spiritual, Moses is mentioned several times in NT], and I thought--
I thought that had to be because Moses must of done it wrong or something...I knew it had something to do with his anger but I didn't quite know what.
Then it just dawned on me, of all the times God told Moses [or others] to use the Rod it was NEVER AT THE PEOPLE,
God didn't say, hey, Moses, go smack those people across the back with that Rod there and Whip them into line, how dare they complain and murmur, I'll show them who's boss.
Not once--it was the ROCK, that was what God hit with the Rod.
not even with the Pharaoh, who rebelled against God, did God hit with the Rod--He hit the ground, He hit the water, and That was the Pharaoh who had ordered the deaths of every single Hebrew infant son, who had ordered the brutal slavery more so even on children, who wanted to keep the girls/women [for sex slavery if you know the history of that era] and still,
God didn't use the Rod on him--
so I kept seeing examples like this. So, I thought, ok God so was the Rock representative of 'hard heart' and 'water'?
Well, it couldn't be because IF that were the case, then God would have hit the People, not the Rock--so Why the Rock? Why not the people? The Rock wasn't complaining or being rebellious, so why the Rock?
Maybe, the Rock represents the hardness that is caused by the years of harsh slavery that has caused people to lose hope, to NOT believe, to think that God is just like the other gods and like the other gods will beat them into submission with the rods and whips and force them to make brick without straw and any time they attempt at Any human freedom or dignity or rights out the Rod goes--slam, slam, slam...
and that Rock represents the heart that has been hardened due to the ABUSE OF OTHERS, WHO HAVE CLAIMED
'GOD'.
And God is showing them--I am NOT that 'god', I don't Beat my kids, I don't Beat even my enemies unless it is Only as last resort [the Pharaoh who through time after time after time would NOT let the people, who they enslaved over 400 years...even committing gendercide, having their sons killed and that the Midwives saved them, through Lying--and God blessed those Midwives--those WOMEN WHO DID WHAT?
DISOBEYED THE 'AUTHORITY' OF THE 'gods' and PHARAOH and then Lied to Save those babies lives, putting their OWN lives at risk.
Did God beat them? No, He blessed them, each one, it says, with families of their own,
that Rock, that gushed out water, water representing Tears, tears of all the years and years of stuffed rage and fear because they had been BEATING BY THE ROD OF HATE, BY THE 'gods' to submit, to be broken, to not even DARE have a Human Spirit.
God hit that Rock--with HIS ROD, to show HIS HATE
of ABUSE.
To heal---and water, water that represents healing and cleansing and Restoration, came gushing out. Water that represents FREEDOM and LIFE--Living Water.
Funny how the ROD in every case, is the Rod that goes Against, Abuse, Cruelty, Hate, Dominion Abuse and Oppression, to Set those broken, beaten, crushed in Spirit
FREE.
The ROD God uses not against or on people--but on the Rock, the Ground,
it's the 'gods' and the 'abusers' and the 'war dogs' and the 'patriarchs' and the 'rulers' who use the Rod of Abuse--of Hate, to crush and demand not just loyalty but sacrifice, of blood, so they can feast and live--they live on Blood--blood of innocents,
I did not know the Amount of $$$ the Pearls made off their Bathory book sales, [Bathory the Queen who had virgins and women killed so she could bath in their blood to stay 'young'], the Misery Profit Industry,
but it's get this, 1.8 Million dollars,
now that ain't chump change, that is a Blood Feasting Industry off the backs of women and children..innocents,
typical of Vampires.
Vampires [spiritual] who have to have the 'blood' to live on because the Life is in the Blood and what better way to do this than to do it with twisting and declaring a Rod be a Rod of Abuse....
and so for HOW many Centuries has the Rod been acquainted with Abuse, with beatings, with the justifications of torture and abuse to Crush the Human Spirit? How much blood, how many Bathories have been kept alive and young and flourishing...off the blood libations?
Is this Why it took the Blood of Christ to redeem us, because the vampires [demons] would only be content with Blood to let us go? [something to ponder on], same with OT sacrifices,
interesting? Don't you think?
When I saw this--I knew, it's like the glass of all the memories and that Stronghold, that God ordained and sanctified the abuse in my childhood as a Right of Parent, a somehow twisted right of passage I had to go through for Whatever reason,
came smashing down into a million pieces...
but it still left me with Why God? Why didn't you intervene? One, free will, but then I saw too, no matter how abusive or cruel the 'vampires' can be and are to us--no matter how much of our blood they consume, Eventually resurrection, LIFE, is going to come,
through the ROD of God--not Him smashing us, but HIS smashing the Bathory's and the Vampires and the Liars and the Blood marketeers...and that tree of life, in the ground of desolation in us, in the broken and crushed spirit--begins to Sprout and all the demons of hell can't stop it--because it was paid for by the Blood of God Himself---
for years I tried to force this life within my self but there was nothing there but desolate dead ground with the dried up residue of blood and tears from years of abuse, hate, believing God Almighty had done this to me, even With all the trying to Submit to that, to the 'god', the 'god' who demanded my being passed through the fire in my toddler years even,
I simply could not bring about that life if I had tried a million years, I could in no way, reconcile this belief that there was LIFE in Embracing that Abuse, as some sick twisted Love. For years in Religion this is Exactly what I tried to do,
self-abnegate, crucify myself, crucify myself...bow to the 'gods' and take the beatings and look for more to hate within myself--to see that God was 'purifying me' through the very ones I should have TRUSTED,
yet no life ever came. Just this spiral vertigo of darkness, death, and wanting to jump into a frozen lake or sea and just let it overtake me, cover me with blackness, oh that cold blackness that I would NEVER feel again--oh I so longed for that, so longed for death...just Make it go away God I cried, Make it go away, please God Make it go away...this pain,
this death.
Christians would tell me that God makes the bad into good but I couldn't see it, I would think you're crazy, I would literally see God smiling at my mother in my mind--see God telling me you devil and you whore and this is for your own good.
I would look at the beauty that so many women could create from Within themselves because they had lived in homes where they were allowed to Flourish, to be Free, and I would hate them, I would envy them, I would think What is wrong with me, I can't even create much beauty in my mind that isn't wrapped up in wanting to KILL, wanting to Lash Out, always the black and gray and death, the vine would choke...there was no pinks or pastels or blues, just black barbed vine like a barb wire fence. I could embrace that--I understood it. I knew it,
tasted it so much with my own blood and tears.
and I HATED GOD, oh I hated Him, no matter how much I prayed or read the Bible or tried to 'renew my mind with the Word of God' I hated Him...it wasn't until I finally came to Embrace that Hatred of Him, to get to that place,
where, some miracle, He began to show me, it was never Him...who He is. But I would keep seeing things like the Pearls and their counter parts and think, really God? Really?
And then God hit the Rock---and the water gushed out,
months ago [this kind of para normal here so yea, you will think I'm crazy but I'll risk it, IF it helps any here, it's Worth the risk], I had prayed about the ritual abuse and other garbage in my past and asked Jesus, what the hell is iniquity anyway? I had also been praying about water--living water, what it was, why no matter HOW much I submitted to my asshole of a husband or thanked God for my past [you know how religion tells you to] or to repent a million times for all the curse words that would flow from inside or bitterness, you know can't be angry and can't be bitter must be sweet and loving and all syrupy honey All the time and all I could do is birth thorns and knives, any sweetness was FAKE as the plastic masks of Hallow's Eve. So I had been wrestling on ok what the hell is this living water and where's all this JOY I'm supposed to be having here God? More and more I was thinking Suicide..not JOY, more and more I thought you know some Mary Jane would be just about right about now,
and I grew to Hate those Christians more and more too--no matter what they spewed I would think, though in repentance of course, this is all b.s. So I put on the humidifier [this was like 7 months ago] and I had this thought, you might want to move it away a bit from the wardrobe [it's this big ugly wooden thing I have/antique that needed stripping anyway] and I thought yea later, I put some salt in the humidifier something I never do...you see it gets dry where I am at and I get migraines from hell,
anyway, the next day, I awake and on the wardrobe it's like all faded white, this dull smokey white in areas where the vapor hit, but now here's the Weird part [and I am NOT lying here because my husband, NOT a believer, my Teen daughter not anywhere near Christian saw it too and freaked out and they are Still there--though I painted over them],
there were these faces, one this little child face, with all these demon like faces all over it...in the middle there was a demon figure and near the top, a man's face, but an evil one...and they were ALL over the wood door. Like engrained, like the water vapor brought them out--many of them look like those African masks if you've ever seen those--
so like I'm freaking here thinking ok that's it, I'm like demonic, just like my mother said, have this big line of iniquity in my family and God hates me and --or, I'm going totally bat shit crazy here, but when the kid's saw it too, and my husband, he wanted me to burn the thing but it's the ONLY thing I have from my father, I never knew him/remember him and so, I have these like demon faces, all staring at me, in my bedroom and not knowing what the hell they mean. It was something like out of a frickin ghost busters movie or show, you know those ones on the History Channel, etc., Logically I told myself that maybe whoever carved this thing back in the old days [20s] may have deliberately put those faces there, but that didn't add up either, so I sanded the thing--faces still there.
So at this time I am trying to put these memories together that I do have, in bits from my early childhood [and I do remember Venus, long story, Venus de Milo, this was back in D.C. btw, where I was born] and then my family, staunch Catholic-Italian-Irish--mother Italian side Father Irish, though there is some Jewish and Slav and who knows what else but the strongest is Italian/Irish], one side of family [father's] all work in Government, the other, well, the Italian side, no need to go there, my granddad was a bookie--need I say more,
but I have these bits of memory--and the abuse, and of course, GOD, Honor thy Father and Mother and Especially for us, my Mother [my brother it wasn't just me, he's really messed up, has not healed from a lot] and more the whole you don't talk, you don't even THINK any thing bad or you got it, you really got it, she could read my mind I am NOT kidding--I grew up with that Fear, and this didn't end with teen years this went into adulthood--until I finally broke all ties [not without the guilt though that would take much, much longer to be free from]
God was Always tied in with all of it--even when I wasn't living the Christian life, was away from it, any certain remark or story would bring it all back--deep inside--
the Rod, God hit the Rock with the Rod and water gushed out--and it did, tears and tears and anger and bitter tears until one day I thought I would drown in them--and the more I cried the more after I would get this coldness inside that made ice feel warm. And I would feel Nothing, literally nothing, didn't want to breathe much less do anything, not even the simple of things, Life, what Life? I was DEAD,
after all the years of submission [even in rebellion I was still submitting to other's abuses esp verbal] and the like I was not living I was dying...a slow, rotting death and More so when in Religion. I looked at that top face on the wardrobe and thought, is that my father, a Priest, GOD himself, for a long time I thought it was God, telling me, you're the devil's child see, here's proof. One day I said screw this, screw you God and I painted over the entire thing with what little white paint I had, took two coats, to cover those faces...
over time, little here, little there, I would begin to see what God really was telling me, that the demons inside me, the demons of my life, had twisted Any concept of Love or Forgiveness or of my Self, I had, and most of all, especially Him, I could not have any Water from the well inside because until I was free from that,
the only thing that would rise up, no matter HOW much I applied and claimed scriptures, would be death, because THAT is what I really believed, the Rod,
and then little by little God too His Rod and He began to Smash all the lies I was told about myself, He began to Smash all the garbage that others' had told me and that I believed and He began to Smash all the curses I had embraced thinking they were due to all the years I rebelled and Hurt myself, doing exactly what those Bathory demons had so desired of me--to take all those things that broke through the spirit and soul and to do to myself, He began to Smash them all--bit by bit, and those faces one by one began to blow apart and I then knew---
and slowly, I began to see pastels and greens and blues and yellows INSIDE me, but not all at first, the black barbed vine was still there but then I saw, it was losing it's hold, it's grip, and this other vine, began to grow, this beautiful green vine that broke through the ice, this sun, and these little sprouts began to grow and I saw this little girl and God smashing this rock in front of her saying,
no one will enslave you ever again....because no matter What happens in your life, you now Know, I am not the ONE who is beating you, with the Rod, crushing you, hating you, that is not who I am...no matter how many vampires spew that lie--you know,
now go tell others, I want them free...free to dance, free to laugh, free to love and be loved, without fear. Without Fear,
I don't know if I really want to hit the post button below or not, I know this may get me some bad karma--but funny thing is, maybe all good marks from everyone not really so good--I grew up with that fear of always having to please and to not disagree or be me, I was never allowed to be 'me', and I am just now, little by little finding out who 'me' is, I walk through this every day--God has freed me from Religion, Churchianity, [and I will NEVER go back, I love your post today about the Refugees, and yea, you never go back, you can't, you're not the same ever again, how does one walk back into chains and bondage and death?],
I wish I could tell you that I'm all fine now I'm not, but I'm getting there--the demons are becoming less and less and though I know they are around me and like the serpents they are you can't rid them out of the world, you'll always have the Bathory's and 'gods' who beat with the rods and throw God's name on it--
but I will say, in the end, they don't win, they don't win. It might look that way, but they don't win...no matter how many times they Beat with the Rod to kill the life of the soul and spirit through tyranny, fear, abuse, hate, terror,
no matter how many physically yes do die, no matter how many things are stolen , no matter how much they may succeed at feasting on the blood of innocents,
in the end, a little sprout of life--if one Chooses to not Become, the Bathory [the real war inside of us and allow the demons to make us into one of them] --
a little sprout of life, comes up, and I think, this is what resurrection from the dead really means...
and it started, with the Rod of God, used, not on me, but on that Rock--and the water gushed out.
Deconstruct the lies--if we need to do Anything to set so many free from the abuses and harms of Religious and Spiritual abuse-its to Deconstruct those lies.
I hope, and I'll risk the bad marks [not to convert you---not the God ain't this, that, just to share MY experience, in maybe you might gain something from it, to help you...to deconstruct the soul assassin's weapon's]
I still believe strongly though--there needs to be legislation, holding those who create environments including hate speech books teaching others to abuse children [or women for that fact], to be held accountable, as Accessories to Child Abuse, etc., no immunity, under separation of church and state or Religion and state--
and I will continue, fighting, to rid of that immunity, religions hide behind, to abuse and kill and destroy.
Love,
Jane
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Post by janedoe on Mar 1, 2010 12:52:50 GMT -5
OH, that wardrobe, I still have it, still painted that ugly white--I won't get rid of it, because it's a part of my life and so I never had a father--I bought this wardrobe from this antique auction place, anyway,
thought of burning it but no burning it or trying to 'pretend' all these things didn't happen will make them go away or bring healing--besides, I'm tired of them winning, 47 years of life blood they sucked out of me,
no more. So, this spring that wardrobe, will be painted, a light pink, maybe eggshell, haven't decided and decoupaged on the doors, with greenery, flowers, [got the idea from Martha Stewart] and am going to redo the entire thing---with a mix of Gothic type of vine [the scrolls, on the sides of the door] and a botanical garden type of greenery-flowers,
and taking it Back. Not just deconstruct but taking my Soul back, for ME, this is what God is doing for me, in so many ways, in a very Feminist way, Goddess way, Oh yea I'll dare say it and if it flies in the face of Religion,
my heart bleeds, not. LOL
It really is like rising up from the Grave. I can't talk about the Pearls and their books and like in this well discipline isn't this and that and like detach myself--from it,
you see the abuse in my childhood, the harm didn't END once I ran away from home at 16 [or the year in the children's home at 14--she tried to rid of me but they couldnt' deal with my outbursts, the damage had been really done by then], it didn't END through the horrible relationships and pregnancies and the streets or the periods I would be back in religion trying to 'clean myself up' and be a 'good girl' if you know what I mean,
it didn't END when I would find I couldn't discipline my own children and would be a 'friend' rather than a parent and any time I would get onto them I would feel the guilt and my oldest, would become very entitled and well, teen years there were hell--that other extreme of too liberal parenting, which is actually a type of disconnect that is, yes, abusive in a neglectful way so we ALL are having to heal from that,
when I read about the Pearls and similar cases I don't just see the childhood I see the generational and what it does--even If you don't physically abuse the disconnect and emotional detachment does it's own type of hurt-harm to those around you, the ones you love,
it's not just a conversation topic, real souls and spirits and generations will be harmed--on a deep psychological level and it does increase until yes,
the mothers will eat their young.
It really angers me when I see a Christian forum [not here, other's I've seen] that will talk about the deaths of these children [esp this recent case of the small child] as if it's just a matter of applied discipline gone out of hand--no, it's not about discipline,
it has nothing to do with discipline, this is about Abuse of POWER, the desire to Possess souls of children, like the magistrates in the Golden Compass, to rip their souls from them, lest they might, question or be capable OF DECISION,
render them incapable of decision, that is what the soul assassins do, whether it's through theocracy or religion or polemic or dogma--it's always the end result,
make them incapable of decision.
It's not discipline, its TERRORISM, that is All it is, using terror, creating fear, to create obedient broken robots who will comply and worship the despots, be they parents, men, governments, for their lust for power, their lust to be 'god' and they need the blood to do this,
it's blood thirst, is all it is, whether it's physical blood or soul blood, it's blood all the same.
While yes, there can be resurrection, there still needs to be work to end this tyranny of abuse in the name of gods, religious or secular, it doesn't not matter, cultural or private it does not matter, and though Pragmatically this may not feasible to rid the world of all such abuses,
we must do what we can, we have too, or the Bathory's will increase and the immunity will increase and more will bleed out and die,
and worst of all, any concept of good, LOVE, even God as Love, will be nill to none, no one will believe or see or heal, or live, really Live,
and that, really, is what I think, the Bathory's and the Vampires want--whether or not one chooses to believe or not, is up to them, maybe free will truly is the 'what we Want to hope for, to Believe in, be it good or evil', what we want to Cling and Cleave too,
only each can choose that, for themselves, like birth and death, it's a solitary journey, we all go it alone there.
For me, this is why I believe [have struggled with this, came to my own conclusions to] there is a place of being, called hell and heaven, to me it's the energy you are when you die, pass on to the other side, you're either Love and your place will be love or you're hate and you're place will be Hate,
if God is Love, then that would explain Heaven...if death is Hatred, that would explain hell, funny thing is, in the universe, it seems there are two forces, negative, positive, who knows, haven't concluded that one yet, won't know till I die, you know,
ask them then,LOL. But I do know, having tasted of both, hell is inside--it really is, it's a being, that may know good but it can't produce LIFE, same with being 'good' and repressing evil, it can't produce LIFE no matter HOW religious one is,
or how much they beat themselves or whip themselves etc.,
it's about Love, knowing what Love is and well, I don't know, Love overlooks both good-evil and isn't afraid of neither because life always resurrects, good-evil can't hold it down, something like that, it's a force, you don't find it, it finds you, or maybe, you meet in the middle somewhere but one has to Want, Hope for it, what Faith is,
how, who knows, I can only say how for me...and I'm really just beginning to slightly understand,
this is why though, I believe, it's not enough to just slam the belief systems, but to get in them and deconstruct, not to prove beliefs, but to get the ax to the root and deconstruct the damages, done, so that we may, possibly, Prevent, them sprouting up, again.
The problem with this however, is that, those who ARE deconstructing, within religion [this includes women working within Islam] our voices are so small and we don't have the Power-Money [that whole 1.8 million] and political punch you know, to really be heard, and to those who are IN those matrix's, they need to hear the most, it's not good enough to just pull them out, because even if, lets say, we pull out fifty,
there are one hundred more, children, being indoctrinated through terror, and a generation of far more in numbers [and not just in Christianity mind you] will increase,
this is why, I think, it's not enough to just hate religion, we got to work, on the deconstructs, WITHIN the religions--or else, they'll just sprout and take up root somewhere else, maybe even more dangerously so.
Question is though--how to do this, I have not been able to do so within the religious circles, the strongholds are just too strong, the Colonization of misogyny and abuse and power and how I don't know,
maybe, funny, there is a similar Exile going on, but rather it being the Hebrews being lead out of Egypt,
it's women and children, being lead out of Egypt...the 'gods' and Pharaohs,
huh, lol, never thought of it that way before,
Love,
Jane
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Post by protectchildren on Mar 1, 2010 23:43:55 GMT -5
nogreaterjoychildren.wordpress.com/My small attempt at providing options and alternative perspectives. Please contribute with your thoughts and expertise.. If nothing else, eventually, the search engines will bring up this blog in the same results list as it returns the links to this particular ministry (and those like it), and hopefully some children will be protected and spared.
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Post by janedoe on Mar 2, 2010 2:09:55 GMT -5
I went out to look at the site, shaking head here, I have not read That much in detail of the Banality of Evil methods of Pearl and their 'how to beat ya baby classes material' but after I read the quotes on the plastic rod, the hitting a 17 month old, uh, yea, I'm sending a letter to CPS, to Barbara Boxer, to Hilary Clinton, to every single political group I can think of-- 17 months old, I got one thing to say, it ain't Christian, I hope to God, one of those child abusing jerks is reading this, just let me, once, just once, catch Anyone, see Anyone, using a rod plumbing bar on a child, let me see Anyone hit a toddler like that, oh Especially let me see Anyone beat a child till that child can't breath, rest assured, my ass will be going to jail Gladly, because I promise, I won't bother with the law...I'll take matters into my own hands, and I promise you, you will Never, use a rod or hit a child like that again. I don't CARE what you think about God or what you THINK the Bible tells you, just let me see it once, I don't CARE if the Nut jobs police [what are they, KKK?] in Tennessee think it's all great and you should --oh my gosh--train Foster Care, I mean are We SERIOUS here? We can't be serious, Surely they are NOT serious? What's next, canings? Stoning of rape victims? Hell, we don't need to worry about Islam, we got the Taliban right here at home--- alternative methods, I don't know if people who would even Think about embracing these methods would be rational, seriously enough to even Consider alternative methods, ?? no, NO, you know, this is grounds for Child Protective Services, there IS no room for discussing 'alternative discipline' methods, this ain't discipline folks, this is flat out no holds barred CHILD ABUSE. I believe in Grace, I really do, but I believe that there is a line between Grace and Stupidity, these Children cannot defend themselves, and if these folks are so blatant about showing the world how they abuse children with NO REMORSE, we're talking a level of evil here that I would say is comparable to the methods used by the Nazi's in the camps, NO, I have no sympathy for them, I say, it's time for Laws, and if the Church don't like it, TOO DAMN BAD, the Church in this nation has for Too long thought ONLY of their own damn 'rights' while knowing there are many who tout the name of Christ and who are abusing children and then to TEACH THIS, oh HELL NO, you know, I don't like the nanny police state either, but I would Rather see, more protections than hear, of adults who really need their sorry asses kicked, beating little children... these aren't parents, these are MONSTERS, I could See someone stressed and maybe snapping and spanking a child too hard then being sorry, or understanding money problems or a lot of things that could be improved upon, but THIS isn't just about 'bad parenting' THESE PEOPLE, ARE PUSHING A CHILD ABUSE INDOCTRINATION--AND THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND THEY ARE GETTING OFF ON IT, OBVIOUSLY, Pearl, I swear, if I ever see you, I will I promise, oh my gosh, oh Hell no, I hope, I really hope, they slam them both, in PRISON, WHERE THEY BELONG, AND TO THE PEARLS YOUR SORRY ASSES, BELONG IN PRISON, FOR LIFE, YOU HELPED KILL THAT CHILD, I HOPE THEY FRY YOUR SORRY ASS. Sorry Vickie for venting here but This just pisses me off to no end...and I am, I will be, doing all I can, to see that there is Legislation passed, to hold Anyone, who puts [and esp makes profit] Advice out there, that encourages CHILD ABUSE, liable to the Law, for Accessory to Assault on a Minor Child. This garbage, HAS TO STOP, all there is too it. Forget talking to these folks, NO ONE GAVE THOSE CHILDREN A CHANCE TO TALK, these child abusers, who are beating these children and are it appears in Glee about it--maybe we should deport them to Indonesia and let them have some caning done on them... arrrrgh protect children you're a LOT kinder than me, I wish you luck...but I've just, no, these people, need to be in Prison, no two ways about it. They through their books, have no doubt, created a climate, where CHILD ABUSE WILL BE NORMALIZED, and HOW many children are at risk now? Oh hell no, we need Legal Action for these children, and WE NEED IT NOW. Jane
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Post by janedoe on Mar 2, 2010 3:07:06 GMT -5
Petition will be going up, Any one here who wants to help, let me know, see homesewersneedleworkersunion-hsnwu.blogspot.com/2010/03/urgent-action-alert-petition-being.htmlI'm taking this to the Political, Remove Immunity Protections from Religious 'groups', Ministries, Publishing [re-introduce Hate Speech laws if need be/Hate Crimes if need be] Materials, under ANY RELIGION, Particularly when there is Profit made from, Any materials, that is Promoting in any form, Child Abuse, Child Sexual Abuse. Remove the protections and guarantee the Accessory to Murder, Accessory to Child Abuse and Accessory to Child Sexual Abuse can be Charged and the Criminals Held Liable to be Tried to the Full Extent of the Law, We need signatures, to get a Bill passed. Jane
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Post by sigaliris on Mar 2, 2010 10:58:47 GMT -5
I'm a big-time lurker here. Often I don't say anything, not because I don't find the topics of interest, but because my heart feels like bursting and I just can't calm down enough to be coherent. But I just had to finally jump in here to say, Jane, I LOVE you for this and if you make a petition I'll sign it. I'd like to sign it TEN TIMES but I guess that would be counterproductive.
I love your uncompromising defense of human rights and your going straight to the point that this is ABUSE and there's no compromising or making it okay by waffling on about how little children do need "discipline" and it's okay as long as we don't "go too far." "Discipline" is a word I wish I could set on fire, then give it concrete galoshes and dump it in the bay wrapped in chains. That word has been so abused and caused so much abuse that I feel sick when I even hear it.
Any time you hit your own child, you have gone too far. I know that's going to upset some people to hear. And I say that as one who did start out thinking I couldn't parent without spanking . . . because that's how I'd been taught . . . but I just knew that I wouldn't beat up my kids and terrify them the way I'd been terrified. I would not "go too far." I'd hit my kids just the right amount. How crazy does that even sound?? Then one day I looked into the eyes of my toddler and I saw there what it was like to watch your mother, who you depended on for everything in life, the one person who was always supposed to love and help you, suddenly turn into this angry giant who was going to hit you as many times as she saw fit and there was NOTHING you could do to stop her . . . the fear, the betrayal in his beautiful innocent eyes . . . that day I knew. And yet, to my shame, I still hit my kids on the behind or on the hands a few times after that . . . because I was under so much pressure and I didn't know a better way to cope. Because I'd been abused when I was little. And so we pass on Hell from generation to generation when we should be giving our children the Heaven of our love.
I've talked with them and told them how sorry I am for those times, even though there weren't very many. I raised four children without a spanking system, even though I did scare them a few times by hitting them and getting mad. They're all wonderful people and productive citizens. Yes, I had the kid who would try to sit down in the road to avoid holding my hand. I didn't waste my time hitting her. I picked her up and dragged her to safety. And then gave her a talk on how we would not be able to go to the park if she couldn't hold my hand and be safe. Surprisingly to some, perhaps, none of my children ever got hit by a car or burned themselves on the stove. Because I watched over them until they were old enough to watch for themselves, and most important, I think, I ALLOWED THEM TO TRUST THEMSELVES instead of teaching them that they were incompetent and bad people who couldn't survive without me there to punish their mistakes. Now that same child who sat down in the street is raising two boys who are hell on wheels. And she does not spank them. They are seven and five now, and they've never been hit by a truck. Somehow they've survived without a beating.
Some of the best books on this subject are by Alice Miller. "For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence" is one of her best. She is talking EXACTLY about the kind of child abuse and indoctrination the Pearls recommend. No one should ever read one of those child-abuse manuals without reading Alice Miller along with it, to see what the results are likely to be in adult life.
Well, now you see why I don't comment too much . . .
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Post by janedoe on Mar 2, 2010 17:34:03 GMT -5
Thank you Sigaliris,
well I thought of this pretty much all night, last night, went and checked some other sites that have been furiously complaining about this same issue, though many tend to focus more on anti-Christianity and I thought about that too, I am left wing to a huge extent myself but not into that whole 'let's jump on the prejudicial anti-God train' there, for me I don't care WHAT RELIGION, or CULTURE
if there is Abuse, I am AGAINST IT...and like you, I believe a lot of that is due to the abuse and the long term [still dealing with] harms because of, not just to myself but to so many whom I've connected with, the harm, is a thread, and it Does continue.
However, I will say, I am not 'anti-spanking' IF really, really necessary and I mean, after All other efforts have failed, and I am talking OLDER children here, not Toddlers, I never could understand why hit a toddler, because they simply to not understand what they are doing--an infant, like the Pearls are teaching, like these withhold affection and the switch, makes me see blood red, it just defies all logic,
but like you, I for years did not spank..for one of my children this worked, for my second oldest it Backfired in a really bad way, reason did not work with her, nor did rewards, in fact, she used those rewards as a bribery-emotional blackmail and when she got older [around ten] She became violent, not just to me, to the other children, as a teen, I had to call the police on her, and I wish now, I WOULD have used some discipline on her when younger, I didn't though, BECAUSE of the damage to my own radar and guilt, like you I didn't want to be like my abuser in her eyes, but there ARE two extremes,
I AM a very liberal parent, but now that my children are older, I see where some of that wasn't the best way to go, BUT I do think, it Really depends on the child AND their 'level of consciousness' of what they are doing/right and wrong, and I believe Education really is key AND more communal support-living, I believe nuclear families has been the WORST THING for children,
for all of us, because it creates a type of 'entitlement me me me' factor [communalism however with patriarchy is just as detrimental, so really I think it's about Power and power dynamics],
of all the abuse, and I've said this before, the ONE thing that does not bother me, what so ever, was the 'spankings' I got for when I did do wrong, they weren't beatings, nor harsh, and they were rare--those never bothered me,
it was the Other things, the being closed into a room [empty and dark] for days, the being left unfed, I had my stomach pumped [before the age of 6] and forced vomiting due to my drinking poisons because I was HUNGRY, THIRSTY, and I remember that, I remember waking up in the hospital with 20 nurses and doctors with a tube down my throat and the pain...I drank finger nail polish, climbed up a shelf because I was THIRSTY and one time fed my brother and me nose drops, we were hungry, I remember having to throw up in these big bowls with him, in the hospital and oh my God the pain....horrible and I still remember,
I remember being kicked in the ribs in our yard when I was 16 and being slapped in the face and shoved and That, That I remember, but more than anything, the words, the psychological abuse, whore, bitch, thief, devil...and being told I wanted to screw any man who came to our house [all prior to 14], her seeing witches to curse me, her locking me out of house till I pissed in my pants on the porch, always knowing it was HER house, she controlled Every aspect of my dress, [forced me to wear mechanics pants to school], my hair [cut it off extremely short as small child/and not in good way OR ripping it out of my skull when brushing cursing me every breath], locking me up in a room when I was 4-5 and I remember falling to the floor, screaming [she had taken Everything out of the room] and it was dark, I still smell that carpet and see dark and feel it and to this day, for some odd reason, when I'm upset the safest place for me is in my bathroom, in the dark--maybe because it was The place where I being abandoned and crushed on the floor drowning in my tears that I rolled up into a ball, into myself, and fell asleep and I don't know HOW long or how many days...but at 47 I still, when triggered, will go to that place],
that's not including the Sexual abuse or her telling me my second marriage that she prayed that my first child would be born Stillborn, [she was Christian then] or how the abuse lasted all through my adult hood, and even AFTER she died, [and this isn't even a fourth of it...it was like she primed me to be the perfect submissive girl who would lay down and take any abuse/rape/rejection and violence from any man and still believe it was because I was the 'devil's child' and through out my life though I rebelled more with each abusive relationship ,
but with each time I would rebel more and the seed of violence [though always wrapped up in fear/guilt] would grow in me...it is like there are Two of me [there was ritual abuse too and I know that's a big part of it though I wouldn't go as far to say I have DID because I have some gaps but not like you see with DID, I think it's more due to the having hated her as a child but being so fearful that anger would turn inward],
anyway, even after she Died, and I had long forgiven her, somewhat, you know, when my brother [she horribly abused him too] and I had to go through her house--I looked into her top drawer, every Single childhood picture, had me cut out of it...except one, I have it, it's in my Bible, she had marked a big X across my face, I was 5, maybe 4, my eyes you could see were absolutely terrified and filled with hate, fear, and on the back she had wrote my brother's name, and under, it says, 'the other....a devil?'
The psychological was forcing me to watch Rosemary's Baby when I was 5-6, Sybil {I have wondered IF she did this to see What I remembered when I was toddler, because I have some fragments of some really weird things that run similar to ritual abuse] and at 9 I went to see Hiding Place with her, it would have Everything to do, with why I am obsessed, with Human Rights...seeing where Corrie Ten Booms sister was beaten in that bed, by the Nazi officer, I was only 8 or 9, and there were 100s more of things like this, the FEAR, I can't explain it all here because just writing it, it sounds like, ok This can't be true, she's just wanting attention and I got that Any time I tried to get help as a kid, the schools, oh your mother is single and having a hard time, the church, you're just rebellious and you need to submit and I didnt' even tell them half of it,
she would tell me Horrible shit Right in front of people, she walked into a school party for choir, when I was 13, I had skipped school one day with this girl [only time I ever done that too] and she found out, she walked into this party and she grabbed me in front of the ENTIRE SCHOOL, INCLUDING MY CHOIR TEACHER, and beat the living hell out of me calling me whore, whore in front of my entire class,
nobody did a damn thing.
The few times I was spanked, like for stealing chocolate, me and my brother, didn't bother me...or when we acted up one time in a restaurant and got it when we got home, that didn't bother me either...
but because any time my kid's would cry [and they learned how to manipulate me really good] if I tried to discipline them I would buckle, it would all come back to me, how I felt, all those times, the way she would look at me, the hate, and I do mean hate, not anger, not frustration, COLD BLOODED HATE,
so, yea, I see some of these books on God healed me of child abuse I'm fine and honky dorey now and I think, you're so full of it...how much Money did this book make you, because YOU'RE NEVER HEALED, OK., never...you are walking fragments, you Do the best you can...my children know a little about my childhood/growing up, they needed to know why mommy disconnected, a lot, I was very affectionate but once they hit seven I something in side me switched off, I would distance myself,
I know now, due to counseling that is due to the sexual abuse [it's common in woman to woman/mother to daughter] and so, at least now I understand, and my daughter [who was the hell on wheels so to speak] is now almost 18, is fine now, SHE says, you know Mom you let us get by with Way too much, you Should have spanked us, she knows though Why, I didn't though there were a few times I would swat her on behind when she got really violent/throwing fits, but by that time she was hitting me [at 10-11] and I didn't know what else to do...That just compounded Every thing, every Word I heard AND had internalized, I can't begin to describe how deep that goes--it caused me so much problems in my faith,
any time I would hear you're selfish nature I'd hear her, any time I would hear die to self/cross I would hear her, I had this really love-hate relationship with God for years...until two years ago [and well this began After she died...and I saw the photos, that kicked it off big time for my brother AND me, but in different ways, he has a drinking problem, never married, is terrified of the anger inside him, never had kids...] I went the opposite, turned in myself, self destruction on bdsm level, so,
Anyway, in a really strange way it was the Human Rights work that Saved me I think--I think, my helping in that was a way to heal, the best I could, my inner child/self, but I wouldn't until years later while in the radical political and dealing with the 'compromises to pedophilia, child marriage [and this a lot due to the alliances with Hamas and some of them, long story] by many in the socialist-communist parties] and a book by Firestone, that would BLOW THE VOLCANO off and I then, wanted blood--all the prison doors to the rage, came a busting loose and I was lashing out at Everyone,
at times--like I could be so detached and shit together then like, one party, in CA, had this big pro-prostitution [and I know a bit about that without going into a lot of detail here] and this let's get rid of the child-sex taboo with adults, of course it's always MEN who want to push this crap and I went off and one woman had the Gall to tell me, some children Like being molested
oh, it was WAR then on and so things like that, this violence would just rise up and it really is by the Grace of God that I am NOT in prison, anyway this got worse after my mother died...so, I don't know, I read that trash the Pearl's write, I can't even get half way through and I am thinking how much I would love to just break every bone in her body Then I feel horribly guilty, hating myself for that, having to pray and work through that anger and get back into Grace/Peace again--though I am Very honest with God about all of this and it really was Him who saved me from complete self destruction,
I don't get as well, in that place now but I still go there--and that really dark place where I think, a lot of death thoughts, not just because of the child abuse but the years of abuse that followed, no matter HOW much I knew mentally, there was a pull inside me, many here may not understand this but it is very normal in children-adults who have been abused/controlled on That intimate of level, that is Why you have many of them that yes, get into prostitution, the whole sex positive bondage take back [been there done that just not on the whole public level/mine was more private] stuff and so, yea, I know that darkness,
and I can assure you the Pearls are setting this up, in my book it's Ritual abuse, it isn't just private this is a Cultic type of abuse that yes could turn into a whole System [esp being that the dominion movement is Political, scary],
so anyway [sorry to tell all here] I thought of this last night and I'm thinking, Human Rights, this petition really needs to center on Human Rights and Removing the Immunities that Religions have, be they Christian, Islam, of Human Right Abuses especially those of Children,
because, one, it will also Include Human Right abuses of Women, two, to include all Religions it will include all Abuses to Children and Women,
it will Avoid the it just being a Manipulative Tool by those with the 'oh lets crush this religion or that agenda while blatantly 'tolerating the same or worse abuses in others/including cultural relativism] AND it will make it harder, for those who Do commit and Promote such abuses, to declare some God right to do so, or some Cultural Right to do so--
it will Also prevent 'power abuses' by those in government with prejudices, those Do happen, ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that we have FAR more theocratic groups on All sides, in Religion/dominion that are working IN government, to assure their 'entitlement' to abuse, rape, beat, torture, force, demean, the weak, women, and Children especially--
this petition is going to focus on Removing the 'Protections' under Religion, for Child Abuse--so that charges CAN be filed, for Accessories and for promoting/encouraging climates of hate, abuse, sex abuse, against Children and against Women. NOT by the Removing of Religion, but by the
Human Right abuses will NOT be Tolerated under Any Religion OR the teaching/indoctrination especially for Profit, of such tolerance. This will apply to preachers, teachers, book ministries, clerics, rabbis, priests, you name it...I am going for the whole shabang,
there IS an International Child's Rights that is being pushed through the UN but I don't support that, for some reasons, one, the Board, believe it's 18 panel are all countries Notorious for Sharia law and Protecting and even Sanctioning horrid abuses to Children and Women, it's an oxymoron really, Sudan is one of those countries, two it's biased, so it's really just going to be a political tool to use against 'groups',
where, what is needed is legislation that removes All immunities no matter if one spews their right and entitlement under God or Allah or the Bullfrog Princess Goddess or what have you, it will include Any religion, including occults.
I also want Civil Damages, Reparations and that I don't know if will be included in same petition or a different one, I believe those churches, mosques, temples, etc., book publishers that Knowingly allow such Teachings, and Protections of abusers, should yes, be forced to Pay reparations to the victims for counseling, all of it....
you betcha, I say it's time, to go for it, to Go for the Jugular, and that is Exactly what I intend to do---I know for a FACT, that a lot of the abuse we went through [my brother and I] were directly related to many teachings they [my mother/her brother] and probably their parents got in Religion AND in the Occult, I know it, and so, I don't care, really WHO or WHAT God or Goddess [ours was Venus, yea I hate her, I grew up with that Venus Statute and I hate that thing like no other],
they both went to religious schools, very strict, [Catholic] and so I know--I've been intimate with both Islam and Judaism [nearly married a Muslim--saw enough and have seen enough there that I don't buy into the Taqiyya] and to me, they are all the same...it's about Power, the Lust for Power, the Desire for Power, and Power that is mingled with blood and sex, Especially over Children.
And I'm scared to death, actually, this is NOT easy for me, confronting abuses to women, has not been as hard for me, trigger wise--when it comes to child abuse, something snaps inside...because that little girl is alive and well and well,
it's hard, but that little girl, is sick and tired, of fear, of pain, of seeing these Monsters, get by with this shit...
and she's coming up for air and by golly, she's got a sword in her hand...[sword meaning symbolic].
Love,
Jane
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Post by janedoe on Mar 2, 2010 17:54:28 GMT -5
Sorry for the curse words, not doing so hot today, and if I vent too much or expose too much, sorry, I have often thought, there is a Reason this issue keeps coming up for me, in a weird way women's human rights was sort of a safer place for me to advocate, it touched upon children but not as direct,
but more and more, with trafficking and normalizing of sex abuse [esp of children] and relativism that has a lot to do also with racism/and Especially classism [like who cares about the poor trash you know, I believe, no, I know that had a LOT to do with why the church town I lived in, didn't do anything, that and well, it was wife swapping central and KKK town, won't go all into that, it was the South, TX, but yea, Class has a LOT to do with it too],
it's that whole fricking pyramid...even the 'communals' within that pyramid, but the most horrid thing is,
for children, it's really luck--if they are lucky to have parents who are not abusive--if they are unlucky and are born to parents/communities that are and there is NO hope/or they are like Invisible, it's the being invisible and the Authority having ALL THE POWER OVER YOUR BODY AND SOUL and then other Authorities, especially Religious ones, protecting that, [and political, same thing goes for children forced into combat and sex slavery in combat],
to me it's a form of Spiritual Genocide of Children and the Next Generation--
and it really is, Human Right abuses, in the worst way, because children are deemed as THE property, with no rights. Especially over their bodies, why I loath the whole force marriage, which is Rape, if there is NOT consent--it is RAPE,
don't matter if they put on a veil and a certificate, it is still RAPE, we Don't give contracts to children to sign--to buy a car at 6 years old or 9 or 12,
so why in the hell in 2010 do we have religions/societies forcing children into marriage, sex, prostitution/trafficking, and then not calling it Rape, there can be no Consent, if there is no Consciousness, of the outcome...
there can be no Consent, if that child, is taught from toddler/even infant, that to THINK, to QUESTION, TO HAVE FREE WILL, is Evil and therefore should be Beaten, terrorized, out of them, until they are in a complete Zombie Vegetable 'lobotomy' state,
what the Pearls are doing, is Lobotomies of Children, through the use of TERRORISM,
that is All it is.
It is Evil, Banality of Evil to the CORE, and in My opinion, it's from the father of evil himself, Satan. [just my opinion]
It's sacrificing children, through the Fire--we have a Duty, to stop it, to try and stop it, to condemn it, to do all in our power, to intervene, for these children...for All of us.
Jane
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Post by janedoe on Mar 2, 2010 18:17:02 GMT -5
I should add, the hunger torture when I was young was NOT due to poverty, after 7, it was the reverse, shoving food down my throat [meats esp] so, it was a control thing...and yea, I have some strange issues with food to this day, an area God has been doing a lot of work, last winter, I had a break through and I realized that God always provided food, it is due to nurturing and love, I never saw food like that [except to my children, why I had a strong maternal bond with them, until I started to disconnect after they hit 7, not all the way but I would go through these periods where I would shut off] but why I really do NOT know, I think because through loving them I was loving myself, so yea, I kind of Spoiled them, a lot, I did a lot of the I suppose they call it attachment parenting, the breastfeeding and family bed thing until they were five-six but that too was because I was low income and in a one room studio so really had no choice there, but yea, there is a lot I really Don't understand, about the dynamics, my surfacing anger never came out to them,
but to adults, that Reminded me of my mother, especially , and reading Pearl is like oh my gosh, reading my Mother,
I just snap, crumble, snap, it's horrible, these parents have NO idea, what they are raising, the ONLY reason I think, I didn't go completely over into horrid violence was two things,
my alcoholic Nana who when my mother worked raised me [though she was horrid to my brother] and the children's home I lived in at 14 for a year...and two women, whom I want to mention,
both Christian, one, who knew my mother, who went to church with us [my mother started going back to church when I was about 11, 12, she had been in sorcery prior too for a while] and well, we went to a luncheon and my mother always made it this thing to Demonize me in front of everyone, I would just sit there and crawl in myself, anyway this woman gave me a ride home, and she said,
'your mother is a controller, an abuser' and I just like, was floored, Finally, Finally somebody saw it, somebody Believed me...and I just cried. But she didn't know the full extent of it but she helped me some, and then years later, after my divorce and I was really acting out and had walked away from the church-religion, a woman, met at work, very spiritual Christian, had grown up in some what of a similar situ and she knew right off, she was the first one who told me, do you know what Grace is? I didn't,
it would take Years for me to come back to God and I still have trouble, in this area, I do, some days I see Him as this big God who is this you bow before me or else and I do still struggle with that, in fact, just writing here about my mother,
I get this fear and guilt, that honor thy mother and father is STILL huge, on me, I have forgiven her, I do understand more now that she obviously was very broken inside and sick,
but when reading/hearing of these cases where it's really about Power and Control - abuse and then the 'teaching and normalizing that under God',
sets me off, and I feel sometimes that all the work/healing has been for nothing, I'm right back, to being that girl, so I will have to press through this, I always do...have to fight, to not sink, in that abyss,
maybe that is why I do, I DO understand, why so many here, have issues with God, I have them, so I do know, I really do, I just have them in a different way.
Love,
Jane
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Post by mothersson on Mar 4, 2010 19:48:56 GMT -5
I really want to make a point about sinless living. Many fundamentalist Christians oppose this idea that ironically Michael Pearl believes in in his own twisted way anyways.
In New thought Christianity people in reality are perfect. This is very very different form Michael Pearls philosophy. Though he says he believes in sinless living, his teachings are polar opposite from that If children are made perfect then they certainly don't have to be physically assaulted. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48
The spirit of God is within you Luke 17:21
and Jesus said "All I have done and more you will do. John 14 12?
Genesis 1:27:That man was made in God's image, and after his likeness
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Post by doggie on Mar 5, 2010 0:30:44 GMT -5
if there is a devil he/she is patting the pearls on the back saying what a good job they are doing.
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Post by mothersson on Mar 5, 2010 10:39:45 GMT -5
Its interesting that Ive yet to see any media stories point out that the person who write the Old Testament's statement that if "you beat them with a rod, they will not die. Proverbs 23:13 is wrong. Jesus went against many of the Old Testament teachings. However, it is prevavent for fundamentalist Christians to focus on Jesus's death rather than his life or interpret his teachings in a different way. For example in one of Michael Pearl's bible teaching video clips, he says that he doesn't believe that people need to be forgiven in all cases. Jesus , in his interpretation said that people should only be forgiven if they ask for forgiveness.
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Post by janedoe on Mar 5, 2010 16:05:26 GMT -5
Hi, I will keep this short, wanted to post this, the Full reply is on the Topic of Serpent Seed on this board [so to not have to repost the entire thing], but this one part, [if you're read some of my story above]
I've also been getting free from the 'hold of Venus' [some things abusive, in my childhood--and the thing about psyche is that it's two fold, depending, it can be the tool to control unto death or it can be used as manipulation, a counterfeit, to promise healing yet is still connected to Venus and that keeps women especially in bondage, in chains...this is very true in cases of sexual abuse where women have been abused by other women, i.e. parent, older sibling, caretaker, etc OR by women who support/assist in the abuse of other women, done by men OR ministries---the pleasure-pain sword yes, IS very true....very true, the source of Life, elevates us using both, the Resurrection,
[glow=red,2,300][/glow]
I am seeing a lot of things though it's not the season to share them all here, right now [there is still a lot to sort through] but it has a Lot to do with what is going on, and why with the Pearls [and similar people/systems] of abuse, child abuse, and it really Is yes, a form of lobotomy--it can be a Spiritual Lobotomy too,
the more a woman who has been abused spiritually tries to get free from the chains the more the psyche [it's like a double sword, one promises help but it is another tentacle/chain] keeps us in bondage--the goal is eternal bondage. Galatians talks of this, it's more than just some trying to get the free back into Law, it goes way deeper than this, especially to women/and those who have suffered child abuse.
All I feel at peace to say right now is that the Rod, is NOT the rod that the Pearls [and those like them] is, in no way is even close--there are Two rods in the Bible,
one, the enemy 'gods' use, to horribly beat into submission, Tyre, etc., read Isaiah, and Jeremiah,
the Rod of God, has many variables and it Always, brings LIFE....in the tree of good-evil however the Rod has been twisted and it is a form of abuse, applied to by the gods/rulers/abusers/oppressors, etc., it is affliction. It is the work of the Enemy of our souls,
it's purpose is to Only bring DEATH. SOUL DEATH. SPIRITUAL DEATH.
More than anything it's main purpose, is to KILL LOVE AND OUR ABILITY TO LOVE, to LOVE GOD, THEN OURSELVES, THEN OUR NEIGHBORS-EACH OTHER,
one has to know God's love, for them, before they can truly love each other...the purpose of the enemy's rod is to kill the soul so that it cannot love NOR know love including God's love. This would be yes, Religion,
there is death, horribly so, life will never be kept down by death however, the source of Life, not the counterfeits, that is God, God is Love.
Dominion and spiritual abuse and authoritarian abuse is NOT the Rod of God, it is an assassination of the soul, a yes, lobotomy, that will create a psyche that will be forever in bondage if left that way. That's the whole purpose and the thing is they look very close, almost identical, the Rods, but they are not. This assassination doesn't have to come through a physical matter rod either, the rod of death can be words, sexual abuse, religious spiritual abuse, it's Always about suffocation, control, to take out breathe,
breath, breath is life, breathed into us by God Himself, any 'rod' that works to take that breath out is the rod of death, by the enemy,
death is the last enemy to be put down, Jesus said...but that's where the truth lies, in this world we will have death, we will taste death, in different ways, some more than others, there are many counterfeits that can claim God, who are workers of death, i.e. iniquity, they look very much like God, of course, they were once from that Kingdom, they KNOW the laws, the tools, how to pervert them, how to use them, they Know, we though have the Choice, to remain in that, or to choose life, tree of life,
the tree of life does not remove the tree of death--it survives it, Resurrection. Life abundant--Love, that Love, true Love, will then, see death around them and lay down their life, to save and give Life to others,
not Death. IF one is giving death--it is NOT of God, if they are sowing seeds of soul death, it is NOT of God,
the life is in the blood, the life is in the breath, to beat a child to where they lose their breath,
is the Work of SATAN.
the son of perdition will be revealed, sitting IN the TEMPLE,
to those who have ears, let them hear.
As for them laughing, about the abuse/at their critics, have one thing to close with...
when Saul spared King of Amalekite Agag's Life, and Agag LAUGHED ABOUT THE MAKING WOMEN CHILDLESS [ABUSE] THROUGH THE SWORD [same could be done with a Rod, there are examples of both in Bible, of how Oppressors use rod/sword to maim, rape, abuse, kill, destroyer], here is what God said and done,
THE PEARLS SHOULD TAKE HEED
"Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of Amalekites. And Agag came unto him 'delicately'. And Agag said, [pay attention]
Surely, the bitterness of death is past. [death here is soul death, of women, people]
And Samuel said, As thy SWORD [or could be rod used] hath made women Childless [meaning, raped/beaten by a Sword, dead women cannot bear children, so this is about rape/abuse and Agag made light of it, laughed at it--notice it's Women, not just some women of Judah or Israel, but Women period], so shall thy mother be childless among women. [God's justice, God is justice] And Samuel hewed [cut apart with sword] Agag in Pieces BEFORE THE LORD in Gilgal."
1 Samuel 15:32-33
Abuse to God is no laughing matter to God...not at all. And like Agag, those who scoff and make light of their 'abuse of others' through rod or sword,
they too, will be dealt with accordingly, by God. Strong warning, NOT to be taken lightly, may Every child abuser, who beats the breath out of a child,
take heed....goes for rapists, wife beaters, all oppressors, THAT, IS A WORD, FROM THE LORD.
Love,
Jane
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