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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 3, 2010 16:21:11 GMT -5
His reaction is beyond sick. Tragic. Self centered. Is that photo of the maniacal man at the top of the post a picture of him or is it used as a joke?? The picture is taken from their Facebook fan page: www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2281294&id=98287219406 The caption reads: Did you know Mike holds world records in knife and Tomahawk throwing? Here's gearing up for another competition - and here is an interesting view of what his competitors will see :-D
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roo
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Post by roo on Mar 3, 2010 16:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 3, 2010 16:41:17 GMT -5
Ugh ~ I cannot get the "socialize" buttons to appear on the blog ~ please don't let that stop you from posting this article on Facebook, Twitter, etc.
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Post by gardenkatz on Mar 3, 2010 16:55:33 GMT -5
I must say that I am at a complete loss for words. I've been out of the fundie/qf life for a dozen years now...and their casual cruelty in the name of Jesus never ceases to amaze me.
Jesus said: " Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not. For such is the kingdom of Heaven." Is this verse missing from Mr. Pearl's bible???
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 17:30:19 GMT -5
So, we could start out by getting people to file complaints en masse to the IRS: www.nonprofitexpert.com/faq/q24.htmFiling a Complaint Members of the public may send information that raises questions about an exempt organization's compliance with the Internal Revenue Code by submitting Form 13909, Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint (Referral) Form. Form 13909 and any supporting documentation may be submitted in a variety of ways. They can be sent via: Mail to IRS EO Classification, Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce St., Dallas, TX 75242-1198, Fax to 214-413-5415, or Email to eoclass@irs.gov. Submission of Form 13909 is voluntary.
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Post by Sierra on Mar 3, 2010 17:31:23 GMT -5
Jesus said: " Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not. For such is the kingdom of Heaven." Is this verse missing from Mr. Pearl's bible??? I'm sure Pearl would say that the 'rod' brings children to Jesus. I'm glad you made this blog post, Vyckie, and are helping to get this out in the open.
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Volly
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Post by Volly on Mar 3, 2010 21:01:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads-up, Mikey-o. I will now make sure I give every new mechanic and homebuilder a length of plumbing line and ask "What do you do with this at home?" If they admit to using it on their kids, or mime beating someone, I will say thank you, smile, leave, and report them for child abuse ASAP.
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em
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Post by em on Mar 3, 2010 21:29:10 GMT -5
Oh my god. Who the hell behaves like this? When you are in any way, shape or form responsible, no matter how much or how little, for such a terrible thing as causing the death of a poor little child, the proper reaction is sorrow, grief, guilt, etc. You should feel bad about it. But to express no regret whatsoever? What the hell? I am dumbfounded. I just ... ugh, there are no words.
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Post by tapati on Mar 3, 2010 22:08:25 GMT -5
Oh my god. Who the hell behaves like this? When you are in any way, shape or form responsible, no matter how much or how little, for such a terrible thing as causing the death of a poor little child, the proper reaction is sorrow, grief, guilt, etc. You should feel bad about it. But to express no regret whatsoever? What the hell? I am dumbfounded. I just ... ugh, there are no words. Yes the human response would be, "I was saddened to learn that a misunderstanding of my child-rearing methods led to the abuse and death of a child. I fully condemn such abuse and never intended for my words to be used to excuse such behavior. Children should never be disciplined to the point of injury." (Putting myself in his shoes for a moment and imagining that he never intended such extreme applications of spanking.)
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Post by tapati on Mar 3, 2010 22:11:23 GMT -5
An interesting defense of the Pearls' material: www.squidoo.com/Pearls_2Train_Up_A_ChildExcerpt: Let's suppose that a family DID closely follow the teachings on the Pearls' web site www.nogreaterjoy.org. If that's the case, the parents would have read this excerpt from an article written by Michael Pearl - IN DEFENSE OF BIBLICAL CHASTISEMENT? When is it abuse? You are abusing the child when it starts doing harm to the child. Listen to your friends-especially to those friends that share your philosophy. Ask the opinion of people you respect. If they think you are abusive, get counsel in a hurry. Ask the opinion of your older children. If your child is broken in spirit, cowed and subdued, you have a problem. Children should be happy and cheerful, full of enthusiasm and creativity. If your children are fearful or anxious, you should get some counsel.
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jtn
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Post by jtn on Mar 3, 2010 22:17:13 GMT -5
I think this post really bothered me more than others in part because of how I spent a chunk of my afternoon. I'm a university professor and one of the few women in my department. I had a female student come in today to drop because she is at the end of her rope and planning on dropping out of school. She had been told by her parents she had to come to this school, do this major, and have this plan for her life. In reality, she wanted to go to a small program and major in biology with an eye to becoming a vet. Her parents rejected that plan and forced her onto what they wanted. Now, she's painfully unhappy and failing. I wound up spending much more time than anticipated trying to work out a way to keep her enrolled and explaining to her that her dreams have value and its never too late to follow them. I'm not sure she had ever been told by someone that while its not the path I'm on, it sounds like a good idea if that's what gets you excited. The older I get, the less tolerant I am of people who think its not only acceptable, but their perjogative, to mold others by destroying bits and pieces of their soul.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 3, 2010 23:55:57 GMT -5
I'm not laughing, I'm sickened by this. If there was any doubt in my mind before, I'm now convinced Michael Pearl is about as evil as they come. No one with a shred of compassion could have written that message.
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jo
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Post by jo on Mar 4, 2010 0:31:33 GMT -5
According to Salon, and Tulipgirl actually pulled the 990s and paid for access to them when I pointed it out in Salon and confirmed its true, NGJ brought in 1.8 million in 2009. Its a rapidly growing ministry.
Kirk Cameron AND his sister staunchly espouse Pearl. Last I checked, both of their websites used to have links to NGJ.
NGJ is Gothard approved. Its also MOMYS approved.
Here are a couple little annuals about NGJ that aren't so widely known. All of the published works are actually written by Debi, afaik. Used to be well known. It was confirmed to me personally a long time ago by Elizabeth of Raising Godly Tomatoes (Pearl-lite and with a skirt on).
And, none of the Pearl children are LEGALLY married. Pearl objects to engaging in the same legal institution as the Sodommites. You can probably find it buried still on the site. It was in the article about his youngest daughter getting married several years ago when he bragged about that fact.
And, that post, its CLASSIC Pearl crap. He said similiar things when Sean Paddock died. He said a whole lot worse when he was BANNED from going to England and holding conferences on parenting techniques there. That time, he said he was being attacked by a contingent of Liberal Lesbians online and got him banned from England unfairly.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 4, 2010 10:16:11 GMT -5
An interesting defense of the Pearls' material: www.squidoo.com/Pearls_2Train_Up_A_Child Children should be happy and cheerful, full of enthusiasm and creativity. If your children are fearful or anxious, you should get some counsel. I'm sorry, I'm a little slow. But how are children supposed to be happy and cheerful if their parents are repeatedly beating them with a plumber's line. And if there is one thing I've seen, is that the children of uber-fundies are rarely creative. They become very rigid, tow-the-line, color inside the line types. It's very sad when you see it happen to what would normally be a free spirited type of child.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 4, 2010 10:27:40 GMT -5
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 4, 2010 11:05:15 GMT -5
And if there is one thing I've seen, is that the children of uber-fundies are rarely creative. They become very rigid, tow-the-line, color inside the line types. It's very sad when you see it happen to what would normally be a free spirited type of child. IME, fundy kids tend to become either robots or rebels. Those that don't have their spirits and souls beaten out of them (and sadly, I've seen a number of those in my life) tend to go the opposite direction and can get pretty extreme. I did the "wear a lot of black and listen to bad rock" thing in my 20s. We become desperate to find an identity that doesn't include God, sin and repression.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 4, 2010 11:27:27 GMT -5
Yep, I was thinking robotic automitons. I forgot about the rebels. Yep, there are plenty of those too. Thank goodness. I can't stand the holier than thou robots.
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Post by mothersson on Mar 4, 2010 11:36:58 GMT -5
It is vital for the sakes of Michael Pearls grandchildren;the ones that are laughing about hitting their dolls, that their parents be investigated for child abuse. Now, I realize that violennt/controlling methods of treatment along with the "laughter" ois all that they know. However, till someone steps in to break the cycle,it will be all they continue to know. Have you huys seen the pictures of the grandchildren. I saw some forced smiles or a sadness behind the smile. I have started a petition to ban corporal punishment of children. Every voice counts to end the barbaric treatment of God's youngest children: www.thepetitionsite.com/1/america39s-behind--ban-the-physical-assault-of-childrenI also have a moderated Yahoo group with the goal of helping to stop the physical and mental assault of children.: groups.yahoo.com/group/bancorporalpunishmentofchildren/?yguid=328760158☺
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Post by debrand on Mar 4, 2010 12:01:29 GMT -5
So, we could start out by getting people to file complaints en masse to the IRS: www.nonprofitexpert.com/faq/q24.htmFiling a Complaint Members of the public may send information that raises questions about an exempt organization's compliance with the Internal Revenue Code by submitting Form 13909, Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint (Referral) Form. Form 13909 and any supporting documentation may be submitted in a variety of ways. They can be sent via: Mail to IRS EO Classification, Mail Code 4910DAL, 1100 Commerce St., Dallas, TX 75242-1198, Fax to 214-413-5415, or Email to eoclass@irs.gov. Submission of Form 13909 is voluntary. I think that this is a good idea. It would hit the Pearls in their pocket books. I will look over that link later tonight.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 12:15:59 GMT -5
oh, p.s., on the government whistleblowing form (provided at the link I gave), you have to check which violation you believe the non-profit has committed. If anyone knows anything about financial misconduct, I encourage them to include it on the form.
But I don't, and I plan to check the following box under the "nature of complaint" heading: "Income/assets are being used to support illegal or terrorist activities."
Income/assets for their books and materials encourage people to use methods of child "training" that are, frankly, illegal. There are quotes all over the internet in which the Pearls encourage parents not to use the techniques outside the home (The implication is that this is because they *know* they are teaching illegal behavior. They cloak it in paranoid language about "overzealous relatives and church members," but it's easy to interpret another way as well...).
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Post by mothersson on Mar 4, 2010 12:17:22 GMT -5
As far as Kirk and Candace Cameron supporting the Pearls methods of treating children, they also support a very similar method taught by Ted Tripp in "Shepherding a Child's Heart". He teaches parents to hit a child for anything in which the child disobeys. The following quote is taken from Kirk Cameron's website: "Tedd shows us how to look behind our children's behavior and get to the heart that drives the behavior. Forget the "time-outs" and counting to three. Get these tools and finally get to the heart of your children. Be careful-we've nicknamed this study "Shepherding a Parent's Heart" because it will transform you as much as it does your children. Chelsea teaches this class at our kids' school." Presumably it is a Christian school where corporal punishment of children is legal and therefore promotion would be acceptable.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 12:19:17 GMT -5
According to Salon, and Tulipgirl actually pulled the 990s and paid for access to them when I pointed it out in Salon and confirmed its true, NGJ brought in 1.8 million in 2009. Its a rapidly growing ministry. Kirk Cameron AND his sister staunchly espouse Pearl. Last I checked, both of their websites used to have links to NGJ. NGJ is Gothard approved. Its also MOMYS approved. Here are a couple little annuals about NGJ that aren't so widely known. All of the published works are actually written by Debi, afaik. Used to be well known. It was confirmed to me personally a long time ago by Elizabeth of Raising Godly Tomatoes (Pearl-lite and with a skirt on). And, none of the Pearl children are LEGALLY married. Pearl objects to engaging in the same legal institution as the Sodommites. You can probably find it buried still on the site. It was in the article about his youngest daughter getting married several years ago when he bragged about that fact. And, that post, its CLASSIC Pearl crap. He said similiar things when Sean Paddock died. He said a whole lot worse when he was BANNED from going to England and holding conferences on parenting techniques there. That time, he said he was being attacked by a contingent of Liberal Lesbians online and got him banned from England unfairly. So, Pearl's kids are "shacking up"/"living in sin"?? Hah... That kind of does make me laugh. Anyway, so, Jo... Do you have any idea how to figure out how those huge funds are being used? The *easiest* way to take down a non-profit is to prove financial mismanagement. How can we get the IRS to start looking into them? Does anyone reading have *any* information/documentation about how their funds are used? Is it possible to use public transparency mechanisms to demand access to financial info? ETA: Not that I have a problem with unmarried people living together. I just think it's kinda amusing in this case.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 12:21:17 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying this! I got really confused for a moment!
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 12:25:07 GMT -5
IME, fundy kids tend to become either robots or rebels. Those that don't have their spirits and souls beaten out of them (and sadly, I've seen a number of those in my life) tend to go the opposite direction and can get pretty extreme. I did the "wear a lot of black and listen to bad rock" thing in my 20s. We become desperate to find an identity that doesn't include God, sin and repression. phatchick: What you did doesn't sound extreme to me at all. When I think "extreme" behavior in response to QF teachings, I think of drug addiction and violence. I think about stuff like the Matthew Murray murder/suicide: www.alternet.org/story/142605/the_nightmare_of_christianity:_how_religious_indoctrination_led_to_murder
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Post by mothersson on Mar 4, 2010 12:39:13 GMT -5
What is a number of calls were put in the social services on behalf on the Pearl grandchildren? Now, this would help two fold. It could serve to protect those innocent child as well as countless others in the long run because surely Pearl could no longer publicly advocate those barbaric methods anymore and may even come to see that his methods have direct negative consequences.
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