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Post by cereselle on Sept 27, 2010 16:13:34 GMT -5
I want terrible, terrible things to happen to this man. I want him to suffer. Yes, it's vengeful and vindictive. Oh well. I really, really hope that, somewhere, he got schooled in how very unimportant he is, and that that lesson crushed him.
IRT sheltering: yes. I too was sheltered as a child. My parents were loving, but very controlling. When I went away to (religious) college, I felt scared at the freedom I had. I could GO PLACES on my own! I could choose whether to go to church! I didn't have someone always watching me to approve of what I did! So, of course, I fell in love with the first boy who provided that control. It felt safe.
He came from his own dysfunctional background, and sought to control me so he'd have someone to love him who wouldn't leave. We hurt each other, over and over again. He tried to control me, my parents (who hated him) tried to control me, and I was torn between them and miserable.
Had I been brought up to think critically, to trust my own judgment, I would not have put up with nearly as much as I did. But children who are praised for questioning and reasoning might come to unbiblical conclusions, so good Christian parents and teachers must make sure they know there are right and wrong answers, and that their eternal fate hangs on getting it right.
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Post by cereselle on Sept 8, 2010 18:43:42 GMT -5
We listened to Psalty the Singing Songbook records and tapes. Anyone else around here remember one Charity Churchmouse? Oh no you did NOT bring that up! Dear Lord, the hours we spent listening to those. I can't hear the words Provolone or Mozzarella without mentally adding "We're the cheeses for Jesus!" *bangs head*
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Post by cereselle on Aug 30, 2010 12:26:26 GMT -5
Perhaps you are right, km, and we are misreading each other. She compared my loving statement of truth to a bomb though, a weapon of mass destruction, and questioned the integrity of my friendship in plain words. If I misjudged her, it should be plain where I would get the idea that she thinks evil of me, my heart and my church. [...] Even so, we are still not called or equipped to carry the financial burden for QF families who keep having children even though they have no steady source of adequate income. If you look back at what you wrote, humbletigger, you were the one who used the bomb analogy. Madame only quoted you. I agree with your last point. There is a huge difference between falling on hard times versus expecting others to finance your choice of lifestyle. If God is calling someone to have this many children, then God should be calling them to a job where they can make enough money to support them. (And by support, I mean provide them with enough nutritious food, adequate clothing, proper health care, and safe shelter.) If the two don't match up... they may want to figure out where God's falling down on the job. Society is composed of giving and taking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking when you need it. But there is something wrong when taking is all you're doing.
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Post by cereselle on Aug 30, 2010 10:41:19 GMT -5
Wow. You know, I do regret some of the things I lost by growing up Adventist, but that is definitely not one of them. Adventists are all about modern medicine-- most of the Adventists I know are in the medical field one way or another. Adventism began in the 1840s as one of the Millerite cults, with roots in the temperance movement. Health became one of the driving missions, and though there was a bunch of wackadoodle stuff (Road to Wellville), they were open to scientific advances. I guess if you have to be born into a weird religion, it's better than some.
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Post by cereselle on Aug 15, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
I still want to fit in..but I do not see it as a "fit in" type of thing any longer. I want Community. Real, genuine community..that is not cultish. The 1950's type of community that we see on those old black and white TV shows. Ladies having coffee and catching up together at the kitchen table, you run out of sugar, and rest assure, your friend Bette next store has some to borrow.... Friday night BBQ's in the back yard with the neighbors. Know what I mean? Has this all ceased in this crazy world? I totally understand. I want that too! I've read a lot about intentional communities, where a group of like-minded people create their own emotional and supportive community, either by buying a plot of land, buying houses near each other, or renting apartments in the same building. I think that modern society's view of the nuclear family as THE societal building block does us all a disservice. We need family ties, of course, but we need greater community and tribal ties as well. We evolved as social beings, interdependent on many people. When those community ties are broken, or are never created, our existence is much more precarious. Look at what happens when QF families isolate themselves. See how horrified we all are at Nancy Campbell's daughter's problems, and our feelings that those in her community (her parents, siblings, etc) should be doing something to help her. We need a web of community connection, not single chains of hierarchy. One link is too easy to snap.
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Post by cereselle on Jul 9, 2010 15:04:58 GMT -5
Cindy, that's great! I'm glad you got a more reasonable voice speaking on the topic.
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Post by cereselle on Jun 6, 2010 12:53:04 GMT -5
[quote author=tapati board=cradle thread=1126 post=15407 time=1275484110I'm sorry to remind you of it, though it was the perfect song to use for this. It started out as a poem by Sandy Chapin that Harry turned into a song with her permission. [/quote] Oh goodness, Tapati, don't take that as a condemnation of your post! I am fascinated, as always, by your story. I am just sensitive, and was even worse as a child. I've built up some defenses since then.
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Post by cereselle on Jun 3, 2010 11:24:24 GMT -5
Medical interventions (especially epidurals) were frowned upon because they enabled women to avoid the curse, which was somehow against God's will. God wanted women to suffer in childbirth, and they were defying him by trying to make it less painful! And I'm sure these men all worked out in the fields to grow the food they ate, without benefit of tools, right? Cause that was Adam's curse, and... Eh, you know the rest.
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Post by cereselle on Jun 1, 2010 15:37:21 GMT -5
As far as the Cat Steven's song, I wince when I hear it. It reminds me of my husband's missionary father, who "hated...even his own children...for (Jesus) sake" and is surprised to find that his children don't really have time for him now that he would like a relationship. One minor nitpick-- it was Harry Chapin who sang that, not Cat Stevens. Cat sang "Father and Son," which also dealt with parent/child issues. (Also "Cat's In The Cradle" used to make me sob when I was a kid. So I don't like it.)
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Post by cereselle on May 10, 2010 9:29:41 GMT -5
ZOMG yay! I've been wondering what was next! But ugh, what a trap. I can totally understand escaping in books. Where else could you go to experience anything that wasn't so rigidly controlled? Even though I know the story ends happily, I can't help feeling depressed and trapped along with your teenage self.
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Post by cereselle on May 10, 2010 9:23:44 GMT -5
Wow, that is so great. Canada is so far ahead of the US on social safety net issues.
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Post by cereselle on Mar 16, 2010 12:33:00 GMT -5
Lisa Whelchel is apparently a Christian parenting guru now (hey, she was on Facts of Life, so she must know what she's talking about, right?) She also "plays" these obedience games with her kids. “As we walk along together shopping, I will suddenly give them silly commands that they must obey without arguing, such as ‘Walk backward,’ or ‘Stop and touch your toes,’ or ‘Give me a kiss.’ Occasionally I’ll throw in a real command, like ‘Don’t touch that,’ or ‘No, you may not have an Icee.’ My favorite curve, however, is to say no to some reasonable request, like ‘May I go to the bathroom?’” Creative Correction, p. 138. Let me ramble for a bit here... I am not a mom. I will never be a mom. The closest I'll come to that is watching my nieces and nephews when their parents go out. But the first time I took my eight-year-old niece shopping, I told her to hold my hand crossing the street. And she did. And it hit me-- this child will do what I tell her. And immediately afterward-- this is an awesome and terrifying responsibility. I'm still not used to the idea that I'm a grownup. The fact that I'm seen as an authority figure to be obeyed is sobering. Knowing that I'm so implicitly trusted by small human beings, and knowing how easily trust can be taken advantage of, abused and broken, makes me absolutely determined NEVER to do anything that could cause them harm. When I was engaged to Rob, we visited his family and went Christmas shopping with one of his sisters and her kids. Her oldest was three. I told her I was going to be her aunt, and her eyes opened wide. "You're my aunt? Oh!" And an hour later, in the car, she stopped singing a little song to tell me, "I love you." I almost cried. Just-- kids are so fragile, they are so vulnerable. How can anyone hurt them like this? How can they not feel that tremendous and weighty responsibility to protect and care for them?
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Post by cereselle on Feb 16, 2010 16:12:35 GMT -5
Rather than having mandatory interventions, what about a whole bunch of optional community services which families can partake in as they choose?
Given the QF/P terror of involving their children with anything of "the world," I can't imagine that they'd join in with the community for any of these. Not that it's not a great idea-- I'm all for community-building activities. It just seems like it'd be one more thing for QF/P families to fear.
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Post by cereselle on Jan 26, 2010 13:42:38 GMT -5
I'd say "Many will remain Christian" rather than "most."
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Post by cereselle on Jan 26, 2010 11:44:25 GMT -5
Good call, KR.
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Post by cereselle on Jan 14, 2010 16:32:33 GMT -5
I like "Act, Love, Give," because it plays off the Eat Pray Love or Laugh Love Live lines that are everywhere right now. OTOH, "Welcome Out" is perfect, I think. It conveys that we're here for them, welcoming them into the world and out of their narrow boxes. I really like it.
As for mission statement, Becky makes some good points. How's this for a rewrite?
"The Take Heart Project has a two-fold purpose: to provide support to women and children who are escaping abusive religious movements, and to provide the public with accurate, compassionate information on the unique challenges faced by the spiritually abused."
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Post by cereselle on Jan 11, 2010 17:02:20 GMT -5
I'm glad to see people like it! My sister is the web designer, and she's providing her services for us free of charge, as her contribution toward fighting the good fight. And now, NLQers, I could use your help. I'm writing the mission statement for the THP, and I am trying to get it concise, powerful, and accurate. Right now, it is accurate, at least. One out of three isn't bad. "The Take Heart Project has three purposes: to connect women and children who are escaping abusive religious movements with groups who provide safe haven and assistance, to advise aid organizations on the special needs of these [women? families? refugees?], and to educate the public on the plight of the spiritually abused." In addition, I'm looking for a tagline that succinctly expresses our philosophy. See nonprofit.about.com/od/nonprofitbranding/a/taglinesmissions.htm for examples. Here are some ideas: God should not hurt. Your power is within. Worship is not pain. Love is gentle. I'm sure those of you who have more experience with this area than I do will have some better ideas. Let's hear them!
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Post by cereselle on Nov 30, 2009 10:31:20 GMT -5
Journey. Just... wow. You put it so clearly.
I haven't publically stated this, but I was in a relationship for two years that was very similar to yours. Like Mark, my boyfriend carefully explained to me why all our problems were my fault for not trusting him enough. Like you, I accepted the blame and hated myself for being such a bad person.
You put this exactly right. It's not like there was blame and anger going on 24/7. There were wonderful times, times when I felt that everything was going to work out just great, and I was so happy to have this person in my life.
The more I read of your story, the more I identify with you and your choices. I was lucky, though-- we weren't married, and it only took me two years to come to the end of my rope. If we had been married... well, it would have been a lot longer than two years.
I totally understand why you didn't leave. In your position, I wouldn't have either. (Not that that's a good thing, understand...)
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Post by cereselle on Nov 6, 2009 12:48:09 GMT -5
I miss it dreadfully! I liked having it open during the day as just a place to hang out and get to know people more easily than on the forums. I mean, when you type up a forum post, you need something to say. On chat, you can just jabber away.
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Post by cereselle on Nov 5, 2009 16:12:20 GMT -5
Hey GrandmaLou! Honestly, it's not at all exciting. I a) walked too much b) on non-supportive shoes c) while being fat. Result was a stress fracture of the heel. I will be so glad to be back on my feet again! This sucks!
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Post by cereselle on Nov 5, 2009 11:56:08 GMT -5
Hee, sack dresses. I actually have a bunch of vintage flour sacks that I'm going to turn into dresses someday! I love vintage style, and I thought it'd be neat to have a flour sack dress made with actual flour sacks.
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Post by cereselle on Nov 5, 2009 11:48:17 GMT -5
I? Have never seen E.T. My mom saw an interview with Steven Spielberg, who (she says) said "I believe that there are aliens out there. And what better way to spread that message than through the minds of children?" So no way were we allowed to see it. Neither could we see Dirty Dancing ("it's DIRTY dancing!"), and we were allowed to watch Pretty Woman only if my mother was available to put a pillow over the screen during the sex scenes.
We also had Hell's Bells in grade school AND high school! That stuff screwed me up like you wouldn't believe. I had hysterics in the car one time because my parents were listening to Olivia Newton-John, and IT WAS ROCK AND ROLL.
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Post by cereselle on Nov 3, 2009 21:34:39 GMT -5
What Thompson is advocating here is Stockholm Syndrome. The fact that he thinks parents should treat their kids like hostages speaks volumes.
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Post by cereselle on Nov 2, 2009 13:45:04 GMT -5
I'm hanging out in chat this afternoon, if anyone wants to stop by! (Sorry I've been so long absent. I broke my foot. Percocet is my new best friend. )
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Post by cereselle on Sept 28, 2009 23:41:41 GMT -5
What struck me most was your mother's desperation to fix your relationship, and your need to come to terms with it in your own way. I so feel for you, being dragged back to that when you weren't ready yet.
I'm betting nothing actually changed-- unless having Mike around made your mom be on her best behavior. People don't just magically fix what's wrong with them. Unfortunately.
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