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Post by livingforeternity on Oct 14, 2010 19:49:22 GMT -5
I have never used an Oxford Study Bible, but my Nelson Study and also McArthur Study Bible indicates that these verses are talking most specifically about circumcision. The Jewish converts were trying to get the Gentile converts to be circumcised. They said that this outward symbol would indicate the Gentiles had accepted the law. However, circumcision was part of the old covenant. Jesus paid a huge price for the new covenant of grace and Paul didn't want people trying to secure divine favor by a ritual. We must understand that there is nothing we can do in and of ourselves to save ourselves. It is a gift of God. In fact he goes on to say in verse 12 he wished those trying to impress legalism on the Gentile converts would castrate themselves. Apparently Paul felt very strongly about legalism. Again these verses indicate wanting to depend on legal works rather than God's grace to obtain salvation. Hope this helps.
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Post by livingforeternity on Oct 12, 2010 8:49:07 GMT -5
Hi whatkindofwoman,
I will be getting into how God began to draw our hearts away from this madness in my next post. I will try to summarize it within the next three. One of the biggest things was a revealing of our self-righteousness. Through certain things that happened God showed us that we were not loving people he loved. We were acting like we were better. Then our son began to rebel so badly and all of the sudden we were like those we used to "pity" and stay away from. Again one of the biggest factors was our hypocrisy. Vision Forum life-styles are so full of hypocrisy and God really put this in our face. Also, my husband had a big change of heart after two things that happened. I will be sharing these in the next few post.
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Post by livingforeternity on Oct 4, 2010 13:54:45 GMT -5
I love, love, love the part about the bread. That is one of my favorite digs at this movement. I say, "I never have been able to bake bread." It's true. I tried and tried, but I could never make anything that was even remotely edible. One thing I have learned since turning my back on all that mess is grace and mercy. There is no grace and absolutely NO mercy. That was the most damaging thing to our family was the total lack of mercy. There couldn't be any mercy, because you would appear to be compromising the rules and above all else the rules must be obeyed. How can you expect to have the perfect family if you broke the rules.
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Post by livingforeternity on Sept 8, 2010 13:23:48 GMT -5
Wow. I have just finished reading your entire story. I have known so many ATI families. At first I thought how wonderful these kids are. Now I know otherwise. A beautiful young woman I know married a leader's son. I like you can't give too many details, but his parents are nationally known speakers and writers that adhere to Gothard's and even more Doug Phillips idealogy. I saw her about a year ago and I was shocked at how bad she looked. She had three kids at that time and is now expecting a fourth any day. My heart just broke for her as she was chasing the three she had around. Her husband had chosen not to come with her as it was an event honoring one of her family members and he was busy. I am just so sickened and guilty about my involvement in this movement as I feel like I have may have influenced people into such a destructive way of life. No more, I will ask hard questions now as I am at this moment anyway still very close to some strict adherents to this idealogy. Whenever they shun me I will let this forum know just how close to some of the main proponents I am. Right now I would like to keep these relationships as long as possible to maybe open some eyes.
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Post by livingforeternity on Aug 23, 2010 13:04:37 GMT -5
The one thing that stood out to me was the part about being drawn into something ugly. I recently got a newsletter from our homsechool group about a family named the Maxwells coming to town. When I saw those awful matching jumpers, green shirts, and khakis I had this overwhelming anger just rise up in me. I was so suprised. Just a few years ago I would have said I wish my kids would be so well mannered and not rebellious. I thank God He has shown me His truth. I only regret I didn't learn sooner as my aquaintance with this lifestyle has cost me my relationship with my son. I am praying that somehow God can redeem this relationship.
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Post by livingforeternity on Aug 13, 2010 16:32:23 GMT -5
I am dealing with a situation with my daughter's choice of clothing. A mom came to me and said they were playing a game and my daughter bent over and cleavage was revealed. She was fine standing up it was just when she bent over. This mom said she wanted to protect her man. My problem is why is it always a women's fault? What about the man who was looking with lust. Shouldn't he be rebuked for looking and lusting?
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