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Post by gratefulwife2brad on May 31, 2010 22:05:35 GMT -5
Hey Vykie-- is all good! I dont mind people's anger-- it is understandable. There is a lot I am still angry about as far as the deth of deception and indoctrination that I was gullible enought to believe--- especially in the beginning, I was strong enought to combat it-- but got so desperate to be accepted.... that became a life-altering and dangerous co-dependency that I spent 9 months in Celebrate Recovery working through! I have recently spoken to some of the leaders at BA and let them know BRad's article was published and that they would probably need to look at it because it may bring trouble to their door step... and I have to tell you-- I was amazed by their humble response! This is how I know the NEW leadership is definitely NOT of the same mindset as the old leadership! One of the asked about possibly posting Brad's article with a link on the BA website as a cautionary word to women about forcing this idea on spouses who are not completely on board! They were more concened with restoring marraiges and harmony in marraiges than defending the "qf" stance! They were more concerned about marriage and family first-- AMAZING group of leaders there now!! I know they havfe been having website server issues lately, but at least one of the leaders had mentioned positing the NLQ article and link on the site... They are even considering re-vamping the application process to avoid marital issues . It has been interesting to see their grace-filled response to this article and their willingness to learn from our experience! Dawn
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Post by humbletigger on Jun 1, 2010 9:04:22 GMT -5
I just want to voice my opinion about reversal "ministries". Understandably it was very important to the people on this thread, but I found the literature extremely offensive and abusive. It claimed that tubal ligations and/or vasectomies were greivous sins, for which there is no Biblical text to cite. All they could cite was a poor simplistic interpretation of the Onan story, and to make that stick they had to paint God as double-minded. What struck me as so tragically and mean-spiritedly misguided is that even IF one could prove that medical procedures to end fertility WERE a "sin", then the blood of Christ would cleanse a penintent soul from guilt and they should be able to accept that with great joy. What I read was a montage of stories of women tormented by guilt, regret and anguish. Reversals did nothing to heal their broken minds and hearts. It rarely worked and they spent years agonizing over things that according to scripture were forgiven. The person who gave me the literature obviously wanted me to join in the mental, emotional torment and spend my days depressed and all of our savings in a probably doomed attempt to undo my tubal ligation. Talk about your works of the flesh! It may hurt to hear my opinion, but I believe that a reversal "ministry" is wicked. It hurts people. It first tells them their value to God lies in their ability to pro-create, and then encourages them to focus on that exclusively and make reversing it their life goal. And what happens to the women whose reversals don't take (the vast majority)? They believe God doesn't love them and that he is punishing them for their earlier decision. Ugly, ugly, ugly. To me, it is just as ugly as the JWs refusing life saving blood transfusions. It's a picture of a nasty opinionated God who will not forgive medical "sins". I totally understand that many posters will disagree with me, but I felt compelled to explain this point of view. Woman attempting to manipluate me to regret my surgery were no friend to God or to me.
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Post by usotsuki on Jun 1, 2010 11:31:21 GMT -5
Urgh. The SAME VERSE that the JWs use to forbid blood transfusions I've used to *support* giving and receiving blood. (I've donated blood a few times to the Red Cross. I can't remember but I'm some sort of O type.)
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Post by hopewell on Jun 1, 2010 13:30:39 GMT -5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you hit an important nail on the head here. Also, Brad's comment on the idea of the men of the movement being like in romance novels. "If only my husband/wife would" is actually a fairly common sign of a marriage that doesn't work, yet if we just follow patriarchy/reversal/whatever it will be totally fixed. Fix yourself first! And last. You can't "fix" your spouse. In spite of the controversy of Brad having the reversal ministry, I'd love to hear from more men. hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/
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Post by spacedcowgirl on Jun 1, 2010 15:17:10 GMT -5
I am mostly a lurker, but km, if you are still reading, I wanted to let you know that I had some of the same reactions to the piece. I don't have the personal experience of dealing with passive parents who "fall into" bad choices and refuse to take responsibility for them, so that specific part may not resonate quite as strongly with me. But I appreciate and agree with much of your original and subsequent comments.
(I feel the need to disclaim that this comment is not meant to imply that I don't appreciate Brad's perspective. What I say is simply meant to affirm what km said, and not to take away from what anyone else said.)
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Post by km on Jun 1, 2010 16:31:59 GMT -5
I am mostly a lurker, but km, if you are still reading, I wanted to let you know that I had some of the same reactions to the piece. I don't have the personal experience of dealing with passive parents who "fall into" bad choices and refuse to take responsibility for them, so that specific part may not resonate quite as strongly with me. But I appreciate and agree with much of your original and subsequent comments. (I feel the need to disclaim that this comment is not meant to imply that I don't appreciate Brad's perspective. What I say is simply meant to affirm what km said, and not to take away from what anyone else said.) I am still reading, but trying not to dominate the discussion anymore. In any case, thanks for what you said.
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Post by glossolalia on Jun 2, 2010 17:26:59 GMT -5
Just wanted to let Brad know I really appreciated hearing what he had to say, and he should quit apologizing for how he writes (something he did a couple of times in the post) because it was really good. I hope other men follow your lead and start sharing their stories as well.
And for Vyckie, the ads don't bother me a bit, especially since you've been so open about why they're needed.
Back to being just an avid reader of the blog now (not a regular poster).
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