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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Jul 16, 2010 10:48:38 GMT -5
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Post by arietty on Jul 16, 2010 19:32:02 GMT -5
Good for them.
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jwr
Full Member
Posts: 218
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Post by jwr on Jul 17, 2010 0:34:31 GMT -5
That's hilarious that one of the speakers has the name "Doug Phillips!"
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Post by km on Jul 17, 2010 9:31:21 GMT -5
But one of the speakers wrote the book Woman, Submit! Are these people just calling for a slightly less "legalistic" version of Christian patriarchy?
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Jul 17, 2010 10:18:03 GMT -5
But one of the speakers wrote the book Woman, Submit! Are these people just calling for a slightly less "legalistic" version of Christian patriarchy? KM ~ the full title of the book is: Woman Submit! Christians & Domestic Violence. Personally, I see the conference as a step in the right direction for evangelical Christianity which is why I am supporting the effort by publicizing it on NLQ. It's obviously not going to be perfect from a purely egalitarian approach, but it will at least draw attention to the issue and challenge the prevailing complimentarian ideas of male authority and women's subjugation. And our own Cindy will be there ~ which gives me confidence that good things are going to be happening on behalf of women's freedom from spiritual abuse.
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Post by km on Jul 17, 2010 11:25:47 GMT -5
Oh, I see, thanks for explaining, Vyckie. Obviously, I'm not familiar with the book. That's cool that Cindy will be there!
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Post by littleblueheathen on Jul 18, 2010 12:36:27 GMT -5
I just can't quite get my brain around this one. On the one hand I understand that it IS good that women are fighting for equality in the Church. On the other, however, it boggles my mind that women would even want to be involved with, let alone active in any institution that demands the subjugation of women. Just sayin'.
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Post by xara on Jul 18, 2010 13:36:57 GMT -5
I just can't quite get my brain around this one. On the one hand I understand that it IS good that women are fighting for equality in the Church. On the other, however, it boggles my mind that women would even want to be involved with, let alone active in any institution that demands the subjugation of women. Just sayin'. That has been an ongoing debate in feminist circles for decades. Especially where religion is concerned. Some choose the reform route and some choose the reject and start something else route. Years ago when I was struggling with that question one of the books I read was Sexism and God-Talk by Rosemary Radford Reuther www.amazon.com/Sexism-God-Talk-Rosemary-R-Ruether/dp/080701205XPersonally, I tend to think both routes are important but most people have to choose one or the other depending on their own experiences and beliefs.
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Post by cindy on Jul 19, 2010 7:11:30 GMT -5
Hey everybody, I'm not even sure that I really belong in the group with these women and whether my beliefs match theirs. There are all kinds of people from different denominations coming to the group. I may, in fact, end up being the most conservative there. I have no problems with women preachers and such. The Bible does not prohibit women from this office specifically in my study of the subject (which in many ways seems ridiculous to me because I don't see prohibition at all). I think, basically for the sake of order, that the Bible just mentions men in the role of governing a local church, so this is probably better for men in terms of being polite. My personal feelings about the subject are not that strong, IMO. I don't care who preaches the Gospel and serves as Gods hands and voice in the world, so long as it is done according to what is written, and we all work on getting that right as long as we live. My contribution involves teaching people about manipulation within the church, and I draw examples from compementarianism, but the core focus of my talk will be how thugs and playground bullies force their agendas. The people there are smart enough and the info is relevant enough that I'm not even going to have to say much specifically about how people who use the Bible to slam women. I didn't even know that the term "complementarian" existed until three years ago, and I can hardly believe that people can accept so much of the core doctrine because I never heard this stuff before. I grew up attending the Assemblies of God, and my primary role models were all strong women who taught at the Bible College. The denomination in Pennsylvania was founded and pioneered by a woman in the early 1900s. She was no liberal and no lesbian as complementarians claim (anyone rejecting their view can only be from these groups). I do know that we will be focusing on major things wrong with primary complementarian assumptions (like marriage is a war or that women want nothing to usurp a man's authority as opposed to having a natural inclination towards nurture and care for men). It isn't under a banner or label of either complementarian or egalitarian. And it will echo and follow from the ideals promoted in the first Seneca Falls Convention in 1848. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Falls_ConventionAs for the rest of what goes on, I'm waiting to see what happens. ;D But my contribution will be as well suited for them as it would be for a conference on how to not fall for manipulative sales techniques. I think that people will get much out of it on many levels, as it is all about becoming a thinker and a harder target for manipulative exploitation in general on any level. And that's exciting! I'm happy to give my basic message to anyone who wants to listen, be it a civic group or a religious one. Manipulation is manipulation to some extent, no mater what the context. I'm happy, however, to be a part of addressing this business in the context of my own religious conviction and camp. It is a good step in the right direction. A little background on Jocelyn -- she was married to an assistant pastor who beat her within an inch of her life. "Woman Submit" is her book about how too many people in the church (ministers and such and even Focus on the Family's Jim Dobson) wink at and diminish the tragedy, danger, and occurrence of domestic abuse within Christianity. Here is a very quickie video showing some of her wounds: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQSLma46gWk&feature=player_embeddedAnd you can read the first chapter of "Woman Submit" here (the term voiced in protest and to draw attention to the problem, not in support of its use!): hungryheart100.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/wspdfsamplechapter1.pdfHope that helps!
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