|
Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Jul 27, 2010 11:12:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hopewell on Jul 27, 2010 11:53:45 GMT -5
17 years and still not finished--I guess this is why most people get a mortgage!! lol.. I can just imagine. We had subflooring for two years after a doggie-illness ruined the carpet. That alone was bad enough! Interesting beginning to your story. I hope there will be more.
|
|
|
Post by andromeda on Jul 27, 2010 14:06:01 GMT -5
The unfinished house--my father did this. We lived in an old house that was already finished (had been finished for sixty years), but he got a burr up his @$$ that he needed to remodel it.
The kitchen was torn up, including the sink. Mom had to wash dishes in the bathroom sink. The walls were bare planks. He tore the kitchen up when I was six and it wasn't really an operational workspace until a few years ago, long after my parents' divorce. I'm 32.
The bathroom was also gutted. Drywall on the walls, which rotted in the moisture and crumbled down moldily all over the place. The aforementioned sink was installed in a vanity that he specially rigged up to accommodate his height. He's 6'2", but my mom is 5'6" and all of us kids were little then. Nobody could easily use the vanity but him.
He messed up something when doing the bath/shower, so the pipes didn't actually work in that spot. If we wanted to bathe, we had to hook up a length of rubber tubing from the sink to the tub.
In retrospect, leaving these things unfixed was a huge control move.
Thanks for sharing, cherylannhannah, and I sympathize.
|
|
|
Post by grandmalou on Jul 27, 2010 15:17:31 GMT -5
What a sad way to have to live! For all who have had to endure this kind of disastrous "home-wrecking/remodeling" lunacy, (((HUGS))) For husbands who imposed this kind of BS on families, what in the hell were you thinking???
|
|
|
Post by krwordgazer on Jul 27, 2010 19:09:32 GMT -5
I think patriarchalist men a lot of times have hero complexes. They have to accomplish something big. It's not enough to have a home-- they have to have a big, grand, beautiful home. So, with great ideological enthusiasm, they start remodeling projects that they are completely unqualified to complete. When they realize that they really don't know how to properly rebuild what they've torn down, they can't ask for help or hire someone. This would shame them. It is they, as the husband, who are supposed to be the great leader, the family hero.
So they just let it sit-- and they compartmentalize the mess away so they don't think about it. After all, as patriarchalists, they aren't the ones who have to cook in the torn-up kitchen or bathe the kids in the torn-up bathroom!
Sometimes it probably is as Andromeda says-- it's a control issue. Other times it's simply that they've bitten off more than they can chew, and their pride as patriarchal men won't let them admit it or be helped.
|
|
|
Post by andromeda on Jul 27, 2010 21:53:09 GMT -5
I think patriarchalist men a lot of times have hero complexes. They have to accomplish something big. It's not enough to have a home-- they have to have a big, grand, beautiful home. So, with great ideological enthusiasm, they start remodeling projects that they are completely unqualified to complete. When they realize that they really don't know how to properly rebuild what they've torn down, they can't ask for help or hire someone. This would shame them. It is they, as the husband, who are supposed to be the great leader, the family hero. So they just let it sit-- and they compartmentalize the mess away so they don't think about it. After all, as patriarchalists, they aren't the ones who have to cook in the torn-up kitchen or bathe the kids in the torn-up bathroom! Yup. That and money. We were always overextended financially, and Dad would get these great plans and then belatedly realize it costs more to build than to tear up.
|
|
|
Post by nikita on Jul 27, 2010 22:21:52 GMT -5
I think patriarchalist men a lot of times have hero complexes. They have to accomplish something big. It's not enough to have a home-- they have to have a big, grand, beautiful home. So, with great ideological enthusiasm, they start remodeling projects that they are completely unqualified to complete. When they realize that they really don't know how to properly rebuild what they've torn down, they can't ask for help or hire someone. This would shame them. It is they, as the husband, who are supposed to be the great leader, the family hero. This is what I always referred to as 'The Ponderosa Syndrome'. All these guys I knew wanted to be Ben Cartwright. So we had all these undereducated young hippie guys who suddenly needed to figure out a life's work in an geographical area with a booming new housing and remodeling market, and Jesus was a carpenter, soooo.... We had way far more than our per capita share of carpenters and contractors in my cult. Way more. And they were forever tearing their houses apart to remodel them and then just...fizzling out....even though the second story wasn't quite added on yet or the kitchen was unusable, and on and on... Their wives were very patient but aggravated women and I did not envy them. I thought I too had married one of these guys but as soon as the ink was dry on the marriage certificate he quit and never did any carpentry again. Dodged that bullet.
|
|
|
Post by cherylannhannah on Jul 27, 2010 23:28:21 GMT -5
I think part of my ex's problem was that he was a perfectionist. If he couldn't do it perfectly, he wouldn't do it at all. But the control aspect was definitely the biggest thing with him. People who are controlling, especially to an extreme, are usually people who are frightened by life and cope with it by trying to keep everything around them under their domination.
Heheh... I own my own town house now. What really sold me on the place was the fact that the kitchen cabinets all had doors! lol.
|
|
|
Post by journey on Jul 28, 2010 0:52:25 GMT -5
This is so good. I can't wait to hear the rest. Different details, but same story as mine and so many others. What a crazy crazy belief system. It was interesting to hear how many of the other patriarch's wives had the same eventual experience and discovered that they had to change. It's just not a sustainable existance...
|
|
clogs
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by clogs on Jul 28, 2010 4:13:51 GMT -5
More, more! Can hardly wait for the rest!
Meanwhile, I feel such crushing agony for you at that stage with so many kids and so few resources. It was almost like camping!
My ex did the big home remodelling deal at the same time our first baby was born. I used to think he did it so he'd have an excuse not to help with the baby. He sure took his time at re-building too: he spent hours away from the house just to pick up a small bag of nails at the hardware store and have to go back the next day to get more. It took months to drywall the livingroom.
And, the renovation craze was catchy: a lot of the guys in my town did the same thing when their wives had babies. They didn't help with the kids either. The men were always too tired but, unlike the women, they got to work when they felt good, and rested when they wanted rest.
The women, on the other hand, were walking zombies from lack of sleep. And yes, some renovation projects were never completed and the wives had to cope. The guys would think nothing of leaving a kitchen or bathroom unfinished, and leaving dangerous tools and messes around, making life risky, unpredictable and miserable for their families.
One of my neighbours, in the same boat as I, planned a trip to the beach together with our kids. It was a logistical nightmare, but we did it. When we got there, it turned out that in all the years they lived there, not once had her husband brought her there. Never. And there we were with two babies each. Going to the beach on an afternoon would have brought so much joy to our lives. That is what other families around us did. But, our husbands did not care how we felt. It was like they wanted to wipe out everything that would make us feel good or bring us moments of happiness, their own selfishness was so complete.
It is amazing that you could get through this without collapsing. Ah, yes, the story continues... I'm anxious for the next installment.
|
|
|
Post by andromeda on Jul 28, 2010 8:39:35 GMT -5
Heheh... I own my own town house now. What really sold me on the place was the fact that the kitchen cabinets all had doors! lol. Heehee! I put up with a crumbling dump of an apartment for way too long in my twenties, reasoning (accurately) that I'd lived with worse before! I did finally get a nicer place and some days I still fill up with gratitude that I have a normal bathroom now where everything works.
|
|
|
Post by hopewell on Jul 28, 2010 9:52:21 GMT -5
to andromeda:
My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. My brother, too. It is closely tied to depression--cannot make a decision due to depression, and severely threatened and angered if someone tries to remedy it. Then they have to "defend" it so they aren't hearing themselves called "stupid" or "lazy" [even if the words aren't used, even if the spirit is a nice, gentle one.] They then "defend" with an Oppositional Defiant reaction. Example: "Honey, please finish one project before you start another--I'll even help." that statement might get, say, an outside wall removed because you've questioned him.... Therapy, if/when they will go, and anxiety meds, can take of this. Sad that you spent your whole life like that. CPS would have helped with this--not necessarily by removing you, but by forcing some order for sanitary/health reasons and would have monitored. So sad for you and your family.
|
|
|
Post by km on Jul 28, 2010 11:46:57 GMT -5
to andromeda: My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. Um... Do you mean this literally?
|
|
|
Post by Sierra on Jul 28, 2010 12:30:17 GMT -5
to andromeda: My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. Um... Do you mean this literally? I highly doubt it, given her use of quotation marks. "Sat on" seems to indicate "closely supervised" to me.
|
|
|
Post by hopewell on Jul 28, 2010 12:35:13 GMT -5
"Today at 8:52am, hopewell wrote: to andromeda: My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. Um... Do you mean this literally? I highly doubt it, given her use of quotation marks. "Sat on" seems to indicate "closely supervised" to me."
Right--closely supervised. He's a mixed martial arts guy way physically stronger than I am--I couldn't sit on him to control him anymore than I could do that with a Clydesdale!! lol
|
|
|
Post by km on Jul 28, 2010 12:54:32 GMT -5
Ah, okay. Never heard it used that way.
|
|
|
Post by whatkindofwoman on Jul 28, 2010 18:52:48 GMT -5
" If you think that this is because I was too lazy to toilet train, all I can say is that you don’t know how hard some boys can be to train!!!"You're still scarred by the performance-driven years! Who the h*** would have even thought "lazy" at this point in your narrative? You feel self-conscious about your boys having been in DIAPERS?--about not toilet-training them early enough? ((((((((hug)))))))))) My son was ridiculously hard to toilet train. I don't think ANYBODY was thinking "lazy" while reading about your boys in diapers. Also, your whole story reminded me of this famous Depression "Migrant Mother" photo (the caption says she had 7 children and was 32 years old): www.shorpy.com/migrant-mother?size=_original
|
|
|
Post by dangermom on Jul 28, 2010 22:53:40 GMT -5
I don't think ANYBODY was thinking "lazy" while reading about your boys in diapers. No, certainly not. I was more wondering how you survived. Of course I'm familiar with this picture, but thanks for this particular link--did you see there was an interview with her from when she was much older? That was really interesting to me--she talks about the various places she lived, and I've lived in or near most of them. Many of my family were Okies and similar, and a photo of one of my great-grandmothers might not have looked much different.
|
|
|
Post by debrabaker on Jul 29, 2010 6:30:36 GMT -5
I cannot believe how many of you have gone through the same thing.
Dh is such a perfectionist is isn't funny.There are still, to this day, things that are begging to be done.
To his credit, he is growing out of the patriarchal mindset too. When we first moved into our fixxerupper (all we could afford,) my oldest started to paint her room. She started with the ceiling (old house with water damaged ceiling,) dh took a pencil and made circles around all her mistakes.
She gave up on the project.
Recently, the younger kids painted my kitchen walls (yay I'm in the process of painting the trim,) and the job is good but not perfect. It took all that was in that man to keep his mouth shut unless he was thanking the kids for the help.
|
|
|
Post by grandmalou on Jul 29, 2010 10:22:42 GMT -5
This comment at the site where the photo of the migrant worker mother ( she looked so tired, haggard, sad) really burned me: "Why didn't she get some training and become a member of the wealthy elite class as the CEO of a BIG corporation. Or, become a sports or entertainment star? You commoners deserve your fates." What a jerk! I can still remember some of my mother's horror stories of the Depression Era...she (and I) grew up in California. Farmers who grew oranges, for example, were so bummed over not being able to get the prices they wanted for the oranges, hauled them by the dump trucks full to a local landfill and dumped them, then poured gas on them and burned them...while hungry children watched and longed for some of them. She and my Uncle Jim used to take their little wagon to the dumps and try to salvage some of them to take to neighbor children.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Jul 29, 2010 11:14:54 GMT -5
This comment at the site where the photo of the migrant worker mother ( she looked so tired, haggard, sad) really burned me: "Why didn't she get some training and become a member of the wealthy elite class as the CEO of a BIG corporation. Or, become a sports or entertainment star? You commoners deserve your fates." What a jerk! I can still remember some of my mother's horror stories of the Depression Era...she (and I) grew up in California. Farmers who grew oranges, for example, were so bummed over not being able to get the prices they wanted for the oranges, hauled them by the dump trucks full to a local landfill and dumped them, then poured gas on them and burned them...while hungry children watched and longed for some of them. She and my Uncle Jim used to take their little wagon to the dumps and try to salvage some of them to take to neighbor children. I'm pretty certain that is what in internet circles is known as a "POE." People say something outrageous as sarcasm because nobody would be so cruel to actually say that in real life but there are socially accepted other comments that imply the full blown attitude the commenter takes. Then, because it's the internet and *because* people really do have terrible views, somebody thinks the sarcasm is serious. There are also reverse-poe's, where somebody says something they honestly believe and it is SOO offensive everyone thinks they are using sarcasm to point out troublesome assumptions. I am 90% sure that the commenter is using the depression era photo and their comment as a sarcastic dig at people today who say stuff like, well, why aren't welfare moms just working already and why don't those unemployed people just get jobs? There are jobs people are just spoiled and lazy! I think the comment was meant to show how ridiculous such thinking is by a reductio ad absurdum, but that doesn't always come across correctly online.
|
|
|
Post by grandmalou on Jul 29, 2010 16:09:19 GMT -5
Jemand; Thanks for this, where I quote: "I am 90% sure that the commenter is using the depression era photo and their comment as a sarcastic dig at people today who say stuff like, well, why aren't welfare moms just working already and why don't those unemployed people just get jobs? There are jobs people are just spoiled and lazy! I think the comment was meant to show how ridiculous such thinking is by a reductio ad absurdum, but that doesn't always come across correctly online." YIKES! Can you tell I am really not exactly "hip" to this stuff? lol Whodathunkit? Seriously, though, there are entirely too many people with this snobbish kind of mindset...pretty pathetic, isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by usotsuki on Jul 29, 2010 17:13:51 GMT -5
Up here in Niagara Falls, NY there ain't jobs. Which seems ironic for such a tourist trap, but people only come here to go to Canada anymore.
|
|
|
Post by whatkindofwoman on Jul 29, 2010 18:56:24 GMT -5
Okay, I wasn't thinking anything real deep when I referenced the Migrant Mother photo.
As I read the "Biblewives" post, I imagined myself in her shoes (the children, the cross-country driving, the unfinished home, etc.) and the mental image that came to mind was exhaustion, and to me "Migrant Mother" is exhaustion and fatigue. That's all. Just an image...
...nothing to do with welfare or poverty or the Depression...
just a worn-out mother.
|
|
|
Post by kisekileia on Jul 29, 2010 19:48:04 GMT -5
I'm shocked at how old the Migrant Mother looks at age 32. Her face is more lined than that of my mother, who's nearly 57. The only thing that suggests how young she is is her lack of grey hair. Do women in QF prematurely age physically as well?
|
|