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Post by km on Aug 7, 2010 21:14:30 GMT -5
Oh, ick... I just realized that the 21 year old newly married very timid girl (child of family friends) who just had a life-threatening pregnancy and has been told by doctors that she can't become pregnant again for at least another year... Well, last time I saw her, she had this CD by Serene and Pearl playing in her car: www.aboverubies.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=570:soothe-me&catid=114:music-cds&Itemid=400082I just listened to a few of the sound bites, and they kind of make me feel ill. At least the parents who led this girl into all of this have since become...slightly more tempered. When her mother told me what had happened--and what the doctor had said--I asked if that was going to be...okay given her beliefs about birth control and everything (I realize now that this was a bit prying). Her mother said, "Well, it better be, because if it isn't, I'll have to kill her husband." But I see she's in with the Campbells... I hadn't realized who they were at the time, but when I picked up the CD case, she noted that they were a couple of her "friends." This girl... It's hard to think of her as an adult woman. I remember she couldn't come into DC to see parts of the city with me when I was looking for housing there because she was afraid to ride the metro. I had hoped she wasn't as fully entrenched in all of this as she seems to be.
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Post by grandmalou on Aug 7, 2010 21:15:52 GMT -5
Nikita, you said: "Patriarchalism nurtures this kind of blind narcissism in men. Most men need a little prodding to make a house a home and not some hole in the wall because many men don't pay attention to the niceties. That is just the way it usually is. Women tend to care about stuff that men don't even notice. If it wasn't for their wives most men would be living in a steaming crater with excellent television reception. In regular marriages women influence the home front for the better of everyone. But when they are silenced and their opinions count for nothing then you get this kind of crap -- a man who doesn't really notice or care whether they have water or can breathe in their own home, say, and a woman who has been told she must accept his non-caring without complaint or comment. That's not normal!! It's all skewed and unbalanced. And it most certainly is not Christianity. / end rant " And I say, rant on! Because this is really the truth of it! Thank you!
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Post by km on Aug 7, 2010 21:34:02 GMT -5
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 7, 2010 23:06:53 GMT -5
Wow, you're right. She does come off as very creepy there. Although I couldn't help but scoff at some of the questions AND answers. Why do you see more people going for fertility treatments now, compared to in previous years? Well, maybe because fertility treatments are rather new and it's only been in recent years that they've become somewhat affordable to the middle class (though they're still not cheap) And according to the Cryptkeeper... er... Nancy, the Bible says "Blessed are the children of your youth", so it seems God wants people to have children while they're young. Really? I mean, I guess he did knock up a teenage girl so I can see where you might get that from, but I'd think God would prefer you to have children when you can actually provide for them and not when you're stuck in the 2nd story of your heatless, waterless, and probably mold-filled house. But what do I know? I hate that someone who is so heartless that she can call her own daughter and grandchildren’s inhuman living conditions "hilarious" can look so benign. I bet if her inner ugliness was reflected in her outer appearance, she wouldn’t have so many under her thrall. Then again, the Pearl guy scares the crud out of me and he seems to have enough followers.
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Post by km on Aug 7, 2010 23:36:44 GMT -5
I hate that someone who is so heartless that she can call her own daughter and grandchildren’s inhuman living conditions "hilarious" can look so benign. I bet if her inner ugliness was reflected in her outer appearance, she wouldn’t have so many under her thrall. Then again, the Pearl guy scares the crud out of me and he seems to have enough followers. See, I sorta think it does come across. She is as creepy on video as Bill Gothard. She kind of screams megalomaniac too. I mean, I too was scoffing at her ideas, but I was more taken aback by her weird way of talking to a pseudo-reporter without ever seeming to register that another human being was in the room. Probably because I was familiar enough with the scoff-worthiness of the ideas, but just wanted to see how she came across as a Human Person. She strikes me as extremely narcissistic, and also as someone who hates women in general (ah-hem, endometriosis as the "working women's disease"). And she comes across as thoroughly self-centered and oblivious to anything but the sound of her own voice... It's not hard to see how such a person could interpret Serene's suffering as "hilarious." And based on some things she says, I get the idea that these videos were not shot in 1992. As such, I would like to note that the shoulder pads and the outfit in general are kind of tragic.
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Post by jemand on Aug 8, 2010 11:54:17 GMT -5
Patriarchalism nurtures this kind of blind narcissism in men. Most men need a little prodding to make a house a home and not some hole in the wall because many men don't pay attention to the niceties. That is just the way it usually is. Women tend to care about stuff that men don't even notice. If it wasn't for their wives most men would be living in a steaming crater with excellent television reception. In regular marriages women influence the home front for the better of everyone. But when they are silenced and their opinions count for nothing then you get this kind of crap -- a man who doesn't really notice or care whether they have water or can breathe in their own home, say, and a woman who has been told she must accept his non-caring without complaint or comment. That's not normal!! It's all skewed and unbalanced. And it most certainly is not Christianity. / end rant I *really* have trouble believing that a normal man would just not notice the fact that he can't breath in his own house, or has no water. This isn't the thing you can just mistake or not notice, like leaving socks on the floor or not dusting the cobwebs in the corner could be overlooked, no... your children having to break ice in the stock tank to bring it back to flush the normal toilet when you go... or having the air catch in your throat... that's something any man knows about, and if he insists on it not changing, it is an active choice to abuse. It has nothing to do with just being lazy or inattentive. And in any case, a lot of men raised today I think are much more capable of taking care of themselves than previous generations, knowing how to cook the basics, being able to figure out how to work a laundry machine, figuring out how to put a button back on, etc. Sure they might not decorate the same way women are taught to, or keep *all* their clothing off the floor *all* of the time, but I think most single men these days keep their living spaces at least *livable.* I think maybe whenever anything gets unpleasant, instead of spending any money to fix it, this guy decides it's time for a mission trip and goes off somewhere for months.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 8, 2010 12:39:10 GMT -5
See, I sorta think it does come across. She is as creepy on video as Bill Gothard. She kind of screams megalomaniac too. I mean, I too was scoffing at her ideas, but I was more taken aback by her weird way of talking to a pseudo-reporter without ever seeming to register that another human being was in the room. Probably because I was familiar enough with the scoff-worthiness of the ideas, but just wanted to see how she came across as a Human Person. I think part of her creepiness, though, is that we know the horrible things she preaches. I think that’s what pushes her demeanor, to us, from “odd” to “creepy”. To a lot of other people, she probably looks grandmotherly (she definitely does look and act sorta like one of my grandmothers- bad fashion included) I think it’s very easy for young women, especially those who are having a hard time as a wife and/or mother and don’t have extended family (an actual grandmother) to get help and advice from, to fall for her act. Women, even introverts like myself, typically do want a sense of “community” and closeness with other women. If a young woman who’s isolated by motherhood is lonely and lacking a sense of community, I think it makes her vulnerable to people like this, who pass themselves off as just giving “wise, womanly advice” on how to be happier. She starts listening to find out how to be a better wife or mother and, before you know it, she’s up to her neck in the crazy.
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Post by km on Aug 8, 2010 13:26:45 GMT -5
I think maybe whenever anything gets unpleasant, instead of spending any money to fix it, this guy decides it's time for a mission trip and goes off somewhere for months. Yes, I think this seems right. And, yeah, even most straight men I know these days have learned the basics just because they don't get married as young as men used to get married. My brother-in-law does most of the cooking because my sister isn't really big on cooking, and I don't think this is as rare as it used to be.
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Post by calluna on Aug 8, 2010 19:23:49 GMT -5
I don't post much on here, but I read a lot.
The whole Campbell thing is horrible.
And I agree, Nancy Campbell is freaky, creepy.
My Grandmother talked like she does....only to four year olds. When people grew up, she put on a normal voice and demeanor.
So yes, Nancy is creepy!
I am still a Christian, and I believe her creepiness has something to do with demon possession...and this is why I say that.
I knew a lady that was "sticky sweet" and she laid hands on me and prayed. I felt some strange sensation, go through my body. Never felt that way before when someone prayed with me, nor since.
Then I heard that this lady, laid hands on another lady that was not a Christian, and instead of feeling a sensation, go through her body, something went into her body.
She called it a black blob. This "black blob" told her to do things that were not good. Like go and hurt her next door neighbor.
The Black Blob left when someone else prayed for the evil to leave her alone. But then she didn't want anything to do with "Christianity" after that.
And honestly, I don't blame her.
I talked with this lady myself personally. She wouldn't lie about this. She was pretty freaked out by this "black blob".
Nancy Campbell kind of reminds me of that lady that laid her hands on me. Just something isn't right. (Shakes with creepiness)
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Post by km on Aug 8, 2010 20:16:02 GMT -5
Huh, well for me, I'd be more comfortable describing her creepiness as probable narcissism (and possibly psychopathy) and a cartoonish demeanor. And I'm the one who doesn't like armchair psych...
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Post by arietty on Aug 8, 2010 23:38:17 GMT -5
People!
Narcissism, psychopathy, inner ugliness, demon possession!! Please could we rein it in a bit.
Most people wouldn't know this but Nancy's sing song voice and lilting manner of talking is very typical of Australian women in her age group, even more so coming from the state she lived in for many years. It is so quaintly odd that I have a few non-Australian friends who imitate it for amusement, and we sometimes even have mock conversations like this because we have all known women who speak in this manner. It's something of a Grand Dame kind of thing and while more common in Christian circles is certainly not exclusive to them. It's actually a cultural oddity. I have had 3 pastor's wives in churches I was in speak like this to varying degrees.
Yes her teachings are cracked and dangerous. But I think the other speculations based on her mannerisms are not useful.
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Post by nikita on Aug 8, 2010 23:45:16 GMT -5
People! Narcissism, psychopathy, inner ugliness, demon possession!! Please could we rein it in a bit. Most people wouldn't know this but Nancy's sing song voice and lilting manner of talking is very typical of Australian women in her age group, even more so coming from the state she lived in for many years. It is so quaintly odd that I have a few non-Australian friends who imitate it for amusement, and we sometimes even have mock conversations like this because we have all known women who speak in this manner. It's something of a Grand Dame kind of thing and while more common in Christian circles is certainly not exclusive to them. It's actually a cultural oddity. I have had 3 pastor's wives in churches I was in speak like this to varying degrees. Yes her teachings are cracked and dangerous. But I think the other speculations based on her mannerisms are not useful. I think this is a valid point. I mean, she is a dreadful woman (based on her writings and teachings) and I am certainly not a fan, but other than that we don't really have a basis for the rest of it. I can't listen to the linked recordings without adobe flash which crashes Word and is on my last nerve so I haven't heard her speak. Is it kind of like that comedian Dame Edna? OTT lilting British (Australian) accent of assumed culture and refinement? Edited because I knew Dame Edith Evans was wrong but the right name just would not come. Thanks for giving me Dame Edna.
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Post by arietty on Aug 8, 2010 23:50:03 GMT -5
Dame Edna does incorporate it! Though she talks a bit fast. But yes, Dame Edna is pulling the Grand Dame thing. Turn into a "keep sweet" christian and you would probably nail it.
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Post by sargassosea on Aug 9, 2010 6:38:47 GMT -5
Thanks, Arietty (and thanks for the "welcome back", too. Yes, I lost everything!) Also I'd like to point out that gay men are not magically imbued with superior cooking and cleaning skills. Gay = feminine is a glaring, and insulting, stereotype.
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Post by km on Aug 9, 2010 8:55:19 GMT -5
arietty: I basically agree with you. Also, I wasn't explicitly referring to the sing-songy voice, but to the fact that she doesn't seem to recognize the presence of the other person in the room with her and just kinda gets lost in her own monologue. And I don't like pop psych in general, but I guess I prefer it to "demon possession"? In any case, that was a fair enough reminder. I'm not comfortable in general with speculating about the mental health of people I don't know.
ETA: They do say that they're from New Zealand--not Australia--on the Above Rubies website. I know there are some linguistic similarities, but wanted to make a note of this. In any case, though, her linguistic patterns aren't really what I was thinking about.
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valsa
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Post by valsa on Aug 9, 2010 11:30:39 GMT -5
arietty: I don't see where anyone was talking about her voice. Calluna mentioned it in passing, but also mentioned her entire demeanor. I mentioned her demeanor. KM mentioned her demeanor. The fact that the way she talks is normal for where she's from doesn't mean she's not creepy.
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Post by amyrose on Aug 9, 2010 11:54:25 GMT -5
It was her facial expressions that creeped me out, not her way of speaking.
On another creepy note...I've been doing some Facebook spying this morning ---it's good that my classes start soon and I'll have something to do!--I found the page of a woman we knew in college at the church we sometimes went to. My roommate and I sometimes babysat for her--not so much by her choosing for us to do so, it was usually because we were watching a group of kids and hers were among them. She never personally hired us because she was adamant that the only thing that makes you capable of caring for a child is giving birth to one--I guess you are magically gifted with child care skills at the moment of birth? I don't know; maybe someone with children can tell me? Because I've encountered that idea many times.
Anyway--I was in college a long time ago so her kids (who were horrible toddlers that screamed and hit and bit the other kids!) are pretty much grown up. The daughter has to be close to seventeen. And there was an album on the mama's facebook profile of her on a "daddy-daughter date". Including shots of a candlelight restaurant dinner and carriage ride in the Old Market (Nebraska people know where that is). Daddy looks quite pleased with himself. Daughter looks a bit embarrassed. I thought the whole album was beyond creepy. And these people were, back when I knew them, garden variety Evangelicals who were not very radical about anything other than non-parents caring for their children.
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Post by calluna on Aug 9, 2010 12:16:32 GMT -5
Forgive me for making assumptions, but honestly, I was just musing, and thinking from going on my own feelings based on personal experience with dealing with Creepy sticky sweet people.
I know people that have the sing songy voice, as Nancy, and while they make me uncomfortable because of "personal space", (They were the types that get two feet in front of your face when they talk to you) they didn't creep me out.
It is Nancy's "glowy" looking face, that makes it look like she isn't even on the earth...along with her personality that creep me out. Like devout followers of extreme cults. Which I do think extreme cults are Satanic in nature.
As far as the physcology of the matter, it is possible she just has some disorders, but it still is pretty creepy.
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Post by usotsuki on Aug 9, 2010 12:23:12 GMT -5
As in she looks like someone who painted herself clean into the uncanny valley?
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Post by Sierra on Aug 9, 2010 12:28:58 GMT -5
So in order to find out what you all were talking about WRT her voice/demeanor, I googled up this video of Nancy Campbell:
And I got very angry, because it seemed to me that she went out of her way to put down other mothers in it. It's not enough to love your children, she says - no, you must love your role. You must be head-over-heels in love with all the nitty gritty little habits of motherhood, or you are forsaking God's will for your life. Don't just love your children - love motherhood! Love your place, woman!
Even with her lilting soft voice, it sounded very aggressive to me. Way to trample all over the mothers who, despite loving and cherishing their children, wish for a little reprieve now and then or look forward to sending them off as adults.
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Post by coleslaw on Aug 9, 2010 12:39:46 GMT -5
Maybe she's just someone who doesn't have a natural talent for public speaking and so she overdoes it.
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Post by km on Aug 9, 2010 12:47:16 GMT -5
Even with her lilting soft voice, it sounded very aggressive to me. Way to trample all over the mothers who, despite loving and cherishing their children, wish for a little reprieve now and then or look forward to sending them off as adults. THIS. I think this is what I was getting: "Wow, this all seems very aggressive and harsh in spite of the sweet soft voice." Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head.
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Post by km on Aug 9, 2010 12:52:36 GMT -5
In any case, whether it's about her speaking voice or not, I think arietty is right: Diagnosing mental illness and/or supernatural possession of any kind is above my pay grade.
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Post by nikita on Aug 9, 2010 13:54:45 GMT -5
So I broke down and installed the flash player so I could see what everyone was talking about. First of all, are we absolutely certain she isn't Dame Edna? Because it would explain so much. She has what I call 'church voice'. It's the female equivalent of 'preacher voice', the kind televangelists and evangelical ministers of all stripes use. It drives me up a wall. I encounter 'church voice' in every denomination, not just evangelical. For some reason women speakers tend to adopt this pseudo-spiritual lilting tonal quality to their speaking voices when public speaking of any kind in a church environment or spiritual group. The very same women will speak normally in general conversation but once they hit the podium or what have you they transform into super spiritual woman of God complete with 'church voice'. Nothing turns me off faster than that. Icth. The main thing I was left with from the excerpt I just viewed was that she has that holy light of the true believer a la 'Conspiracy Theory'. Pure dedication to the fixed idea regardless of outside influences and whatever the cost to anyone around her. When applied to motherhood I imagine she is terrifying. A perfect motherhood martyr and saint. And you know what they say about living with saints. Anyway, I didn't get any vibe of putting down all other mothers from her, just a single-minded fixed belief that motherhood is woman's role and it is to be embraced as a ministry of God and not a side line while the real work of God is done elsewhere. In other words, it is the real work of God for women, not a distraction or something to be done until you can get back to the real mission field, etc. I think she has taken a real insight and elevated it into an entire system of belief with its own rules and overriding urgency to an absurd degree. It's not that she's wrong, it's just that she's picked one thing and made it everything in the universe and then applied it without exception to everyone around her regardless of whatever God may want to do with them or they themselves may want to do. It's a serious personality flaw that she has turned into a profitable home business. Go figure. Unfortunately for the rest of the world she has successfully spread her fixed belief to a multitude of women and is helping to destroy people's lives, including her own children in my opinion. She won't see it that way of course, but that is the effect she is having. If she sent the same message out in a more tempered way, in a more psychologically healthy way without all the extraneous commandments and such that she's tacked on to it it would not really be a hurtful message. Motherhood can be where God put you so embrace it and find love within it. Fine. But she has turned it into motherhood is the only place God can place you and you had better love it or you are out of God's will for you as a woman. That is an entirely different message and I don't think it's the one she was meant to be getting or shoveling out the door wholesale. I personally think it is where she made her wrong turn. It's a very common wrong turn to make. It's too bad no one caught it early on, her life (and the countless lives she has/is affecting) would have been much different I think. I say this as someone who has made my own particular stupid life mistakes and must live with them too. But at least I'm not spreading them in a glossy magazine. (You can thank me later. ;D )
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Post by freefromtyranny on Aug 9, 2010 14:06:28 GMT -5
Maybe she's just someone who doesn't have a natural talent for public speaking and so she overdoes it. Agreed!!
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