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Post by luneargentee on Jul 9, 2009 2:15:20 GMT -5
The timing on your post, Erika, is serendipitous. I was just writing today for my sociology class, and this week's subject is education and religion. There was even an overview of Calvinism and the resulting Protestant Ethic. *gagging* Sorry.
But I ended up writing about something that I hadn't thought about in years, as we were to write about whether we felt our peers or our parents had influence us the most in our education. Of course, I didn't tell about all the misery I suffered after my already overbearing parents became Jehovah's Witnesses, but I did discuss some of the stress of their push to do well in school.
And then I remembered a girl I went to high school with. I didn't know her well; she was more of a friend of a friend. Her parents were Mennonites, but her father had left the church and his marriage. She spent part of the time with her father and part with her mother. She hated the time she spent with her mother, but she kept it hidden. Her father bought her jeans and regular clothes. Her mother sent her to school in modified Mennonite gear: she could wear the modern full-length, hippie-style skirts, with long sleeved, loose-fitting tops, and she had to wear her hair fastened neatly in a bun. Of course, by the time classes started, she was in the jeans she kept in her locker and her hair was down.
Remembering this time, I remembered her. She was beautiful, with dark, naturally wavy hair. She was kind and friendly, but so horribly unhappy. Her father was fighting for custody, very unusual, especially back 35 years ago. She loved her mother, but hated going home to her.
Sadly, I don't know what happened to her. Suddenly, she was gone, and I never found out what happened to her. I really hope she moved away with her father.
Unfortunately, I was so miserably unhappy at the time that I tended to lose focus on other people. I was doing exactly the same thing as Erika: carefully hiding my feelings, maintaining appearances, doing as I was told, and waiting. Waiting to be old enough. Waiting for my chance to escape.
And that would be a long story.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 9, 2009 10:07:47 GMT -5
"My father's motto was, "You don't marry the one you love, you love the one you marry." Interestingly enough, he got to choose the one he married and he married her because he loved her. " It's interesting that so many P/QF parents seem to think denying their children the same, normal choices in life that they had, is somehow making them more Godly, when it just creates resentment! The Poster Child Family of QF--the Duggars--are a great example. The Mom was a CHEERLEADER! Your story has a much happier ending then some--you parents, too, saw the legalism for what it was and left. I'm sure too many others see it, but won't leave--won't "ruin their testimony." I think you and your sister were RIGHT--no way is a 20 year old "running away from home." That's ridiculous. Personally, I hope there's a QF girl who leaves home by enlisting in the Marines or Army on her 18th birthday! Think about it--career, pants, constantly with other women AND men her age!! I suspect most who leave just walk out the door and never look back though. I'm happy you and your sister got your family "back" and that your marriage is a normal one!!! I look forward to exploring your scrapbooking blog--the pictures and pages you included in your post were great. I remember those God awful jumpers. I was overweight and in a bad marriage back them. I looked at myself in the mirror once and the stupid thing made my rear look so huge I thought I was that mythical half person/half horse creature!!
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jeb
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by jeb on Jul 9, 2009 10:22:44 GMT -5
stampinmama: This story about the daughter that works at home and can't even imagine anything else reminds me so much of a story that I read years ago, in some magazine or another, about a tribe of people in South America that had lived in the same place by the same river since time immemorial. I can't remember whether a road was going through or what that was necessitating that they moved elsewhere but when they were asked, "Wouldn't like to live over by this river, or over there, or whatever, there reply was always they same. 'But we live here'. And they reiterated this like a mantra, 'But we live here', because they could no more imagine themselves living somewhere else then they could think of living on the moon. It just WAS NOT POSSIBLE. I've often wondered what happened to those folks when they had to relocate. Your daughter in this story sounds just like them . . . It's Just Not Possible that I would do anything else/live anywhere else. Sad, eh? Thanks for your post and follow-ups . . . fascinating/heart wrenching stuff. John
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Post by madame on Jul 9, 2009 13:26:21 GMT -5
Control over one's children is the way to ensure they won't embarass us and make us look like bad parents.That's an interesting statement, Madame - because at the same time they set up that control, these parents make it so basically anything a child does (wear regular clothes, talk loudly, run, not do everything you say, express themselves, get angry, be unhappy) are embarrassing - so there's no real gain for the parent, just more things to worry about and more contests of will with the kids. Rosa, That is what happens. And then they write essays, blog posts and books teaching how parents who don't exert the same control over their children's behavior are failing. They talk A LOT about perfect behavior, first time obedience, and "Biblical discipline". One petty rule for us was not eating candy at school. We didn't have money to go to the dentist, so we had to look after our teeth. In Spain (where I grew up), in the 80s, all children passed out candy on their birthdays, and very often they passed them around their sibling's classes as well, which meant we got a lot of candy that we weren't allowed to eat. Very often, whatever lecture we got after being punished was accompanied by a dental examination and the declaration that we must have been eating candies at school. I remember one of the worst spankings we all got (and all 5 school kids at the time got it) was for embarassing them. The youngest had the habit of running off and yelling after his dear friend who lived one street down from ours on the way to school. We ran after him, shouting at him so he would stop. The neighbors who used to commend our parents for our good behavior started talking about the yelling and running, so we all got it one evening. It seems like, the older the kids, the more they are guilted into not embarassing their parents (ie. keep toeing the line). Stampinmama's post is such a good example of extreme control!
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Post by grandmalou on Jul 9, 2009 19:09:41 GMT -5
Thanks, Rosa. Yah, the pic with the horrid jumper and head covering make it more real, I think. The thing is, that 1994 pic of me makes me look about 3 times the size I was. I weighed about 120 pounds there, but we weren't allowed to wear clothing that showed off any curves whatsoever. Erika, Bless your heart for sharing this post with us! And we are so thankful for you that you have a super husband and life is looking great for you now. (((HUGS))) You really have a gift for writing, you know that? I really enjoyed reading it! Strangely, Sunday we had some visitors at our church...dh and I (further known as Grandpa Wayne) were in awe at the family from Missouri who had come up to visit their grandmother (the wife's) for her 90th birthday. This couple has 10 children, and they sang two songs for us. Beautiful family. But... 7 boys, who were like book ends to the siblings. The oldest four were boys in late teens, early twenties. Next came three girls, all dressed in the dreaded matching denim jumpers, and then three little boys younger than the four girls. One of them was too little to walk yet, so Mom held that one while they sang. What got me was all the boys had confident, straight-forward looks. Wore 'normal' looking clothing, like jeans but with ties and white shirts. All the girls looked down at the floor...not right, not left...not smiling...depressed looks. Robotic, like my darling 7 formerly QF/P kids. I wanted to hug them!
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Post by grandmalou on Jul 9, 2009 19:22:17 GMT -5
Luneargentee, I quote you here: "And then I remembered a girl I went to high school with. I didn't know her well; she was more of a friend of a friend. Her parents were Mennonites," I too went to high school with a girl who was Mennonite. She was in my GYM class, but was not allowed to wear the shorts the rest of us had for gym. Had to participate in her ankle length skirts. But she was required to shower in front of everyone, like all the rest of us...this was about 1958? When she realized that all of us shaved our legs and pits...she wanted to do likewise. Poor girl. There were no disposable shavers, etc., then, so she used her dad's old straight-edge and had nicks all over the ONE LEG she managed to shave before her mother caught her, and refused to let her shave the other one! Imagine her shame when she had to come to school later with one leg all chopped up and the other all hairy...and she had really DARK hairs on her legs. The other girls teased her unmercifully, despicably...and I wanted to shoot them!
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Post by rosa on Jul 9, 2009 21:31:38 GMT -5
Oh, Grandmalou, that is sad. There are a lot of immigrant young women around here who wear variations on the headscarf/long dress outfit - all sorts of variations, from teens in jeans & a t-shirt with their hair wrapped, to little girls wearing the full covering in bright pink with sequins all over. I see girls playing soccer in their long skirts all the time, and when I used to commute to downtown I heard more than one little girl point at me on my bike and say "She has a bike you can ride in a dress!" They seem to negotiate it pretty well, though there are always a number at the bus stop by the high school who are scrubbing off makeup or changing out of their jeans (right at the bus stop - those skirts are pretty big) before they go home, so I'm sure it causes friction at home - but the schools make a real effort to be welcoming.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Jul 10, 2009 0:33:27 GMT -5
Erika ~ I haven't had a chance to thank you for your post here on the forums. Congratulations on your "independence" ~ you're just as heroic as those who fought for and won our freedom as a nation.
Just a couple comments that I've been meaning to address:
Pictures are really amazing, aren't they? I mean, we can talk about our stories all day long ~ but then one picture just really brings the story to life and suddenly what we've been saying all along just become all the more real.
I've been going through old photos lately ~ and it's interesting that we almost always looked so happy ~ it made me realize that in doing the NLQ blog, I've tended to focus on the problems ~ almost to the neglect of the very real truth that my children really ARE blessings. And I'm also realizing that "Q.D." ~ no one could have convinced me that I wasn't really happy. I WAS happy ~ because I chose to be happy ~ which is a very different thing than the happiness I'm experiencing now without effort ~ without deciding ~ I just AM happy.
I am really glad ~ and relieved ~ that you acknowledged the good that your parents did do ~ thank you for that. I believe that even the worst parents still have their good points. I never want to minimize abuse ~ but I do think that healing comes quicker if we're able to focus on the positive and be grateful for the things that did go right.
It must have been quite traumatic for you to go from an actively involved public school student to a sheltered and isolated home schooler. Yikes! My kids have that situation ~ only backwards ~ and that presents some very real challenges too.
"I would sit in my chair every Sunday with my middle fingers (yes, both hands) flipped at him in my pockets." Gutsy girl, you!
And yes ~ it's interesting how QF/P parents can be so very discerning when it comes to the extremes of other Christians. We were ALL about discernment ~ I taught adult bible studies on cults and cultic mind-control ~ and yet, look at all that we fell for. Ugh.
I wonder, if after you had eloped ~ when your father consider you a "fornicator" and demanded that you come home ~ what would happen if you had obeyed? That could lead to some interesting "courtship" dynamics next time around, huh?
"Since then, I have found a passion for seeing other girls and women break free from the awful chains of patriarchy. To find freedom from guilt for desiring to be themselves, for wanting their freedom in the first place, and moreso, to reach out and grab it back from those that stole it from them." Yeah ~ me too, Erika. Thanks for your contribution.
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Post by sargassosea on Jul 10, 2009 8:11:38 GMT -5
I'm gonna keep this short: Stampin Mama totally !ROCKS! cuz she's a strong woman and an example to us all Thank you!
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Post by jemand on Jul 10, 2009 9:30:58 GMT -5
Luneargentee, I quote you here: "And then I remembered a girl I went to high school with. I didn't know her well; she was more of a friend of a friend. Her parents were Mennonites," I too went to high school with a girl who was Mennonite. She was in my GYM class, but was not allowed to wear the shorts the rest of us had for gym. Had to participate in her ankle length skirts. But she was required to shower in front of everyone, like all the rest of us...this was about 1958? When she realized that all of us shaved our legs and pits...she wanted to do likewise. Poor girl. There were no disposable shavers, etc., then, so she used her dad's old straight-edge and had nicks all over the ONE LEG she managed to shave before her mother caught her, and refused to let her shave the other one! Imagine her shame when she had to come to school later with one leg all chopped up and the other all hairy...and she had really DARK hairs on her legs. The other girls teased her unmercifully, despicably...and I wanted to shoot them! the shaving story is interesting... because when I was in high school I refused to bow to the social pressure and never shaved my legs, neither did my best friend. I do now, but I didn't feel like I wanted to then, and I didn't feel like social pressure was something I wanted to bend to... and I wonder that girls are shaving younger and younger now, sexualization of childhood and all that. Out of all the things you can do, I wouldn't necessarily jump on shaving legs as you know, the most freeing thing ever! But at the same time being forced not to isn't great either, especially when it means horrible teasing.
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Post by arietty on Jul 10, 2009 10:08:45 GMT -5
That is interesting Erika, and very sad. Think how hard it would be to walk out and start from scratch after living at home with no real job for years and years.. how intimidating for some. My MIL believed firmly that a woman must NEVER express that she likes a man in any way, she must wait for him to come to her. She impressed this on her meekest child who had a man she liked who was just a friend. She waited 8 years, always deferring to her mother telling her that godly women don't pursue men.. finally she rebelled and wrote him a letter asking if he had any romantic feelings for her. He replied: "no". Now personally I think the fellow is probably gay and deeply in a religious closet. The mother makes excuses for this and would be happy for her daughter to STILL be waiting on this man ("he is very busy.." wtf?!) It's completely nuts and my SIL is staring down the barrel of never having kids, she's in her 30's now and never had a relationship. I just recently spent a weekend in May with a few girls for a mutual friend's wedding. One of the girls is 29 and still living at home and works for her parents, getting paid (not sure how much) for child care (she's the oldest of 10) and housework. I asked her if she'd ever thought of moving out and getting another job. She said, "This IS my job. Why would I want to move out? Besides, I'd have to pay rent and commute here if I moved out." There wasn't any thought of getting another job and being on her own. Her parents had finally built a new house and had built a room on just for her.....to make it convenient to have her stay. That is SO sad about your SIL. Is there any way that you could convince her to get a life and get out? Actually she HAS got a life. She has an excellent highly trained career and she owns her own home. But right into her 30's she was still under enormous pressure to make all her decisions meet her mother's approval. I remember her worrying over wanting to buy one kind of house when she knew her mother thought "single women should only by X kind of house". She has separated herself a lot from her mother but I think a relationship will be the final move away, especially if she ended up with someone not approved of. It's just it has taken so long, it's like she's over 15 years behind people's normal separation from their parents. I can imagine these QF daughters who think it's God's will to stay home and take care of siblings and housework for years and years will end up even more out of the loop of life milestones.
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Post by grandmalou on Jul 10, 2009 14:40:12 GMT -5
Arietty, quoting you here: "But right into her 30's she was still under enormous pressure to make all her decisions meet her mother's approval." I just turned 67...my mom passed in 2002. I can so relate to that statement, even though it was a matriarchal ...no, wait...control...issue. I still catch myself, even after her passing, thinking "I wonder if Mom would approve of this movie or this song or...." Damn! When we were cleaning out her house, a few months after she died, I kept expecting her to jump up from her chair and start shrieking at us..."Get the hell out of my things!" I still have a book I was reading which was explaining one physician's opinion of how fibromyalgia started, and was really making me think...but she had a cow, and stated: "What the hell do you want to waste your time reading THAT depressing thing for?" I sat the book down, and have not picked it up since. Now that is just freakin' sick, is it not? But maybe explains a bit of what mind control can do...
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Post by grandmalou on Jul 10, 2009 14:42:58 GMT -5
I'm gonna keep this short: Stampin Mama totally !ROCKS! cuz she's a strong woman and an example to us all Thank you! I second that!
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Post by krwordgazer on Jul 10, 2009 14:56:58 GMT -5
Stampinmama, I finally had time to read your story all the way though-- I found it appalling and uplifting.
It's appalling that people treat one another that way. It's even more appalling that they drag God into it and abuse one another in God's name.
But I'm filled with admiration for you that you stood up for yourself, found a way to escape, and even (eventually) helped your parents find their way out, too.
I think the love of your family for one another, and the freedom you were accustomed to in your early years, contributed a lot to the strength of mind and heart that dismayed your parents at the time, but eventually influenced them to claim their freedom, too. Spiritual abuse is an ugly thing. When I was in a spiritually abusive church, I also was encouraged to be controlling over those I was put in charge of, in the vast heierarchy that was Maranatha Campus Ministries. I'm glad I'm free now and able to ask forgiveness, and receive it.
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Hillary
Full Member
"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
Posts: 129
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Post by Hillary on Jul 10, 2009 23:45:06 GMT -5
I just read this again and am wiping tears away. I especially loved how you stated "A 20 year old doesn't "run away from home." They claim their freedom and take it back from the people that stole it from them. Minors run away from home. 20 year olds claim their freedom." and OMG, this: "The thing I remember most about that phone call was that my mother was worried about the testimony I had marred for our family by doing this. It was then that I realized, in a whole new way, that so many of the things that my family had been doing over those 6 long years was about appearances. My parents were more concerned about how it made them look. They were concerned about how others would think of them." .....really is the crux of nearly every issue I/we quivering daughters have had, I think.
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Post by xara on Jul 12, 2009 14:57:44 GMT -5
Luneargentee, I quote you here: "And then I remembered a girl I went to high school with. I didn't know her well; she was more of a friend of a friend. Her parents were Mennonites," I too went to high school with a girl who was Mennonite. She was in my GYM class, but was not allowed to wear the shorts the rest of us had for gym. Had to participate in her ankle length skirts. But she was required to shower in front of everyone, like all the rest of us...this was about 1958? When she realized that all of us shaved our legs and pits...she wanted to do likewise. Poor girl. There were no disposable shavers, etc., then, so she used her dad's old straight-edge and had nicks all over the ONE LEG she managed to shave before her mother caught her, and refused to let her shave the other one! Imagine her shame when she had to come to school later with one leg all chopped up and the other all hairy...and she had really DARK hairs on her legs. The other girls teased her unmercifully, despicably...and I wanted to shoot them! the shaving story is interesting... because when I was in high school I refused to bow to the social pressure and never shaved my legs, neither did my best friend. I do now, but I didn't feel like I wanted to then, and I didn't feel like social pressure was something I wanted to bend to... and I wonder that girls are shaving younger and younger now, sexualization of childhood and all that. Out of all the things you can do, I wouldn't necessarily jump on shaving legs as you know, the most freeing thing ever! But at the same time being forced not to isn't great either, especially when it means horrible teasing. I started shaving my legs at the age of 10. Not because of the way it looked but because otherwise my legs itched and I couldn't sleep at night. It felt like a thousand ants were crawling up and down my legs. There are still nights when I have to get out of bed and go shave because I can't sleep because my legs tickle or itch. I like the way my legs look and feel when they are smooth, but I am more interested in being able to get a good night's sleep than in fashion.
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Post by xara on Jul 12, 2009 15:01:34 GMT -5
Stampinmama, I also want to thank you for sharing your story. You are a strong wonderful woman and I am glad you fought for your independence.
Take care.
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Post by cereselle on Jul 13, 2009 10:16:41 GMT -5
This came up in my daily reading today-- not sure where it should go, but I wanted people to see it, and it seems like it applies here.
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“If a woman has a prolonged discharge of blood outside the period, or if the period is prolonged, during the time this discharge lasts she will be in the same state of uncleanness as during her monthly periods. Any bed she lies on during the time this discharge lasts will be polluted in the same way as the bed she lies on during her monthly periods. Anyone who touches it will be unclean and must wash clothing and body and will be unclean until evening.” LV 15:26-27 (NJB)
In Mark 5, we read what is popularly known as “The Cure of the Woman with the Hemorrhage” v.v. 25-34
“Now there was a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years; after long and painful treatment under various doctors, she had spent all she had without being any better for it; in fact, she was getting worse. She had heard about Jesus, and she came up through the crowd and touched his cloak from behind, thinking, “If I can just touch his clothes, I shall be saved.” And at once the source of the bleeding dried up, and she felt in herself that she was cured of her complaint. And at once aware of the power that had gone out from him, Jesus turned round in the crowd and said, “Who touched my clothes?” His disciples said to him, “You see how the crowd is pressing round you; how can you ask, “Who touched me?” But he continued to look all round to see who had done it. Then the woman came forward, frightened and trembling because she knew what had happened to her, and she fell at his feet and told him the whole truth. “My Daughter,” he said, “Your faith has restored you to health; go in peace and be free of your complaint.” (NJB)
The law from Leviticus quoted above is part of a larger series of law (not too large if you want to read chapter 15 for yourself) that was intended to convey the mystery and sacredness of the beginnings of life by governing both seminal discharges of men and the menstrual cycles of women. In short, these were laws meant to protect the sacred character of sexuality.
There have been various theories throughout the years as to what the woman in the story was suffering from. There are also a variety of different theories as to what kind of treatment she received to help her. In the book Warrior Marks: Female Genital Mutilation and the Sexual Blinding of Women by Alice Walker and Pamela Parmar, the theory is presented that part of the reason why the woman was bleeding so profusely is that she was the victim of genital mutilation. Whether that claim is accurate, we will never know. It certainly isn’t impossible. It was practiced at that time and place (as well as New York hospitals in the 1940’s), and if she was seeking treatment for intense bleeding it isn’t an unlikely treatment. Regardless, we do know that the problem she was experienced was connected with menstruation and that this woman was going through Hell. She had a terrible condition, was probably in pain and to top if off she made in to a social outsider for something she couldn’t help because the men who wrote her religious texts wanted to celebrate the mystery of life.
Even today, this is one of those stories about women from the bible that tends to get played down. I think the most popular interpretation of the story is that it is about having great faith. I think that is part of the interpretation. What seems to get left out is that there is a component of having faith strong enough to break the rules.
Oh no, not that. Not a Jesus who might be sort of subversive! Not a Jesus who liberates. Great, the next thing you know people will be receiving communion who shouldn’t be!!!
Under the law this woman should NOT have been running around touching people. In her act of desperation and hope (remember hope, she had a ton) she ignored the rules that had been governing her life for the last twelve years, made her way through a crowd and touched the man who was known as Rabbi.
Now, the penalty for what she did wasn’t death (probably a first for the book of Leviticus) but what she did was rude. It would have upset most people I am sure, because Jesus would be expected to go and bathe and wash his clothes and be unclean himself.
What might be also, just as shocking, is that she almost comes across as believing that she has a right to Grace! She thinks she has a right to be cured. No begging and groveling and washing his feet with her hair (though she couldn’t touch his feet), for this woman. Nope, like one of those pushy people getting onto a subway she pressed forward and just took grace.
She surprised Jesus too. He was reacting to feeling the power go out from him. This wasn’t an act of free will on Jesus’ part. She pick-pocketed him.
Can you just imagine, that if we were blessed with the Roman Catholic internet, who I pick on since thats my denomination (or the letter section of most Catholic newspapers) during the time of Christ’s ministry how they would have spun this event.
“I am deeply disturbed by recent events in the “ministry” of the Son of God on his way to raise the daughter of Jairus. A woman who had no business touching Jesus touched him and instead of defending Church teaching Jesus encouraged this behavior. The point is this, she was aware of the law in Leviticus, but this woman (who obviously embraces relativism) chose to violate the law of God and receive healing from his son. I think she should issue an apology immediately, and that we should discourage other people who have been bleeding for twelve years to not engage in similar behavior. God’s law is clear. If she doesn’t like it than maybe she should find a different messiah. Furthermore, I think Jesus was irresponsible. First, Jesus should have clearly explained to her what the law was on this matter and ask her to bear her sufferings with dignity, since it was God’s will she have the hemorrhage in the first place. I also think that Jesus needs to be more careful with his power. It isn’t something to be treated in such a crass and uncareful way. It is my sincere hope that the First Person in the Trinity does something about this right away, like take away his son’s healing privileges for a good long time. I just despise these “Spirit of the Law” people. They are driving the Church into the ground.
Signed,
Faithful Catholic.”
I will spare you the follow up comments on “double effect.”
I won’t go so far as to say Jesus didn’t play by the rules. I think Jesus did play by the rules. However, the rules are not about being a hard ass with no compassion. The rules are about healing, caring, casting out demons. When Jesus sent out his friends to the world that was the commission, those were the marching orders.
Part of healing, I think, means accepting that people will storm the gate of heaven. Hell will never conquer the gates of Heaven, but the hopes and audacity of a desperate woman will. She conquered the gates Heaven, got cured for it, was commended for it, and we still speak of her today. People will tell you that the Church (and subsequently Jesus) doesn’t need you. Well, Jesus needed her, her story adds to his reputation and helps us to understand him so much better. And guess what, fellow heretics; the Church is insignificant compared to Christ. They need us, and I say we follow our nameless sister and touch some cloaks without asking.
Given the nature and power of patriarchy, she probably couldn’t play by the rules. After all, even in today’s church, Women Religious who are too sassy end up getting investigated by the powers that be. In today’s Church, the majority of women report that they visualize themselves kneeling before Jesus when they pray (the majority of men report walking alongside him in their visualizations) and there are disturbingly large numbers of married women who feel that sex is to be endured rather than celebrate their bodies and their sexuality.
Why shouldn’t women feel inferior? For Pete’s sake, when Michelle Obama met with the pope this week she dressed like one of Michael Jackson’s kids on a picnic. Why? To appear respectful. Cover your head, show your humility, be a powerless baby maker.
But, brothers and sisters in Christ, right here in black and white is a woman who broke the rules. She was a woman who (granted in desperation) had the audacity to storm the Gates of Heaven even though she was afraid. Why was she afraid? She was trembling and frightened. Part of the reason was because of the cure. Because of the power that emanated from Christ (this is a reoccurring theme, that Jesus had a power that you could feel in his presence), but also because she has no way of knowing how he might react. Is he going to yell at her, scold her, slap her, humiliate her, and take the cure away?
Nope, he commends her faith, reaffirms her health and sends her in peace. Now that’s being a Son of God. The Pharisees would have had a fit!
How many of us would have had a fit?
How many of us need to follow her lead? Do we have the kind of faith that allows us do reckless things in the hope that our God is good? That our messiah cures us and helps us and sends us in peace?
Do we have faith in the man named Jesus or do we have faith in the law. Do we understand that hope doesn’t come from the law? Do we understand that our Jesus is here to liberate us, and that the power of the Holy Spirit has enshrined for all eternity in our Holy books an example of faithful dissent?
I sometimes wish she had a name. Sometimes, I think we should give her a name. I think she needs to be a patron saint for all of us who feel unclean in our churches, who fear God will reject us and hate us or at the least doesn’t want to be bothered by us.
But maybe, by being nameless she can be closer to us. We can put on our face on her person and carry ourselves through the crowds and touch Grace.
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What would the QF version of that letter say?
The woman didn't get her father or brother to come carry her request to Jesus. She took what was hers as a child of God. She came out of her home and, unclean as she was, made everything she touched unclean, breaking all the rules-- and Jesus commended her for it.
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Post by stampinmama on Jul 13, 2009 18:44:17 GMT -5
Vyckie -
Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to share with the NLQ readers. I've actually been contacted privately by some readers (even some that I went to high school) that have been encouraged to speak out for themselves in different situations that they've been dealing with.
I have shared my story with people in my safe circles and people that I meet individually, but it's something that I've wanted to go public with for a long time. One of the things that held me back was time. With a husband, kids and a house to keep up, it's been hard to find the time....but then I realized I had to make the time because there were people that made the time for me when I really needed it back then.
Going public, especially on the internet, has been a little wierd. Mostly because my mom is a very public internet presence in the food blogging world, but a lot of people that know me were also introduced to my mom's website by me. Even though my parents are no longer the way they once were, I know that it's hard for them to hear it from their kid's perspective. It brings back a lot of memories for them that they've tried to wipe out and it gives them a whole new way to look at how awful that kind of lifestyle is and what it does to the kids. I've told them that there's nothing that they have to feel bad for anymore....they've asked my forgiveness and I've given it to them, so we're cool. But, it's still hard to be faced with it as a parent. They feel a lot of responsibility, still, for what it did to us kids.
It's been a fine balance of trying to stay true to myself, to not sugar coat it and to be honest about exactly how it made me feel, while still showing them love and being respectful. Of course I love and respect them....even more now that they've come out of that and asked for forgiveness, but it's a story I have to tell, regardless of how it makes them look while they were in it. That's why I add my disclaimer, to let people know that they're free from this.
As for eloping....we didn't actually elope. I left home, but didn't get married until 2 1/2 months later. We sent out invitations (very quickly) and invited my parents (even though they refused to come). We had a real wedding with a bridal party and a reception.
But....if I had come home, I think I would have been branded afterwards. My parents would have put me under lock and key and I would have been considered "sloppy seconds" at that point. Anyone who would have been suitable marriage material for me wouldn't want me because they wouldn't want someone that was tainted. I would have been stuck at home forever, completely under my parents' authority and control.
It was horrible being taken out of school while being such a social teenager. I went to a small school. There were only 300-ish students, K-12. We were all in one big building, though there was an elementary wing. The middle school and high school weren't segregated. They were all in the same building and we didn't think of it as two separate groups. Even during prom, all grades, 7-12, were invited. Can you imagine a senior prom with only 20 graduating seniors and their dates? Talk about DULL. It was all one prom.
The social lonliness that I felt was overwhelming at times. I don't think my parents fully understood it. My sister and brother didn't really care because my brother used to get picked on at school and my sister only had a small group of friends. They were content to homeschool and bought right into the whole movement - hook, line and sinker. I, on the other hand, felt imprisoned.
I just received an email this morning from an old high school friend that I connected with recently on Facebook. I thought this part was really interesting: "I read your guest article and it helped put pieces back together. It is incredible what you all went through and made it out from. It seems insane that though we were all still in the same town, I was so caught up in [my] own loss - yours and Kerri's friendship, you no longer on our basketball court, etc., that although I felt badly about your not being able to participate I did not truly understand what you were going through. It was so much more than my teenage impression of the situation."
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Post by tapati on Jul 13, 2009 20:22:12 GMT -5
Stampinmama, I'm so glad you've had a chance to convey your experience to your high school friends. I also have reconnected with a friend from school who saw what my home life with my mom was like, and it's a powerful validation of my experience.
I don't have the problem of parents still alive to read whatever I may say about them, but I am telling a story that involves my daughter's experiences and I got her permission. It's a problem that writers of autobiographical material all run into. Locally there was a woman who wrote a parenting article and pulled examples from her own household. At some point her young son became old enough to understand that his story was being represented and was uncomfortable with it. For awhile she wrote with his name changed after working out that compromise with him.
I do think your story needs to be told and who knows how many parents may be discouraged in the future from doing this to their children.
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Post by stampinmama on Jul 13, 2009 20:34:05 GMT -5
Tapati -
One thing I made sure to do was to let my mom know that I would be writing about my experience, from MY perspective, of living in the patriarchal subculture. She knew it was coming, but I didn't tell her when. She understood that it was something I felt I needed to do and I also made sure she knew that I would be letting people know that they were no longer a part of the movement, especially because she has a large presence online and because so many of her readers came from my readership on my crafting blog.
When it went live, I sent her the link and I didn't hear anything in return. She emailed me about other stuff, but not about that. I finally sent an email and asked what she thought of it. Then called her later in the day. She sounded agitated and I thought she might have been agitated with me (not that it would have changed how I wrote my story or that I would be writing more in the future). I just assumed that the first one was going to be the hardest.
Later on, I heard back and come to find out, she was having trouble with her computer and had to reinstall some programs and that's what she was agitated with. it had nothing to do with me.
She did say that it caught her off guard when I sent her the link, even though she knew I was eventually going to do it. She was surprised that I had written SO much. I told her that I scaled back and there was no way to tell that particular story without including all that I did. What I included was bare bones. I could have been WAY more wordy if I had chosen to. She was going to let my dad read it later. We had a good talk that day and she said that after years of letting it go, having it in written form from one of her children brought it all back and she never realized how bad it really was for me. I think it was good for her to finally read it all.
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Post by enlightenmentgirl on Jul 14, 2009 9:19:59 GMT -5
Erika, your article with the pictures are remarkable. And I'm glad to hear that your parents have abandoned that mindset and that you have forgiven them.
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Post by barbaraw on Jul 14, 2009 10:38:14 GMT -5
I started shaving my legs at the age of 10. Not because of the way it looked but because otherwise my legs itched and I couldn't sleep at night. It felt like a thousand ants were crawling up and down my legs. There are still nights when I have to get out of bed and go shave because I can't sleep because my legs tickle or itch. I like the way my legs look and feel when they are smooth, but I am more interested in being able to get a good night's sleep than in fashion. OMG, yes! Though I have to admit that I wanted to start younger because of appearance issues. My arm/leg hair is long and *dark* and my mom was very fair, so her arm/leg hair (long though it was when left to its own devices) was basically invisible. Next to her (and the very, very fair girls that I went to school with (mostly German and Scottish and/or Irish ancestry)), I always felt like a monkey. I used to threaten that if it got any longer, I'd start braiding it. ;D
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Post by tapati on Jul 14, 2009 14:03:33 GMT -5
Tapati - One thing I made sure to do was to let my mom know that I would be writing about my experience, from MY perspective, of living in the patriarchal subculture. She knew it was coming, but I didn't tell her when. She understood that it was something I felt I needed to do and I also made sure she knew that I would be letting people know that they were no longer a part of the movement, especially because she has a large presence online and because so many of her readers came from my readership on my crafting blog. When it went live, I sent her the link and I didn't hear anything in return. She emailed me about other stuff, but not about that. I finally sent an email and asked what she thought of it. Then called her later in the day. She sounded agitated and I thought she might have been agitated with me (not that it would have changed how I wrote my story or that I would be writing more in the future). I just assumed that the first one was going to be the hardest. Later on, I heard back and come to find out, she was having trouble with her computer and had to reinstall some programs and that's what she was agitated with. it had nothing to do with me. She did say that it caught her off guard when I sent her the link, even though she knew I was eventually going to do it. She was surprised that I had written SO much. I told her that I scaled back and there was no way to tell that particular story without including all that I did. What I included was bare bones. I could have been WAY more wordy if I had chosen to. She was going to let my dad read it later. We had a good talk that day and she said that after years of letting it go, having it in written form from one of her children brought it all back and she never realized how bad it really was for me. I think it was good for her to finally read it all. In my experience we go through stages of recovery from these kinds of groups. One stage is to not want to talk about that time at all, and eliminate everything that might even remind you of it. Given the added dynamic of strain because it was imposed by your parents, who now regret it, and it can become the elephant in the room no one wants to bring up. After awhile, though, when some healing has taken place, I think there's a desire to reclaim those years and glean something positive from them, however slight. At this point it might be good to start doing some "processing" as a family and try to find the silver lining. Over at gaudiya-repercussions we devoted a thread to listing things that were positive outcomes of our time in the temple (or practicing outside the temple as the case may be). We learned skills that we still use today, such as meditation (good for stress reduction), cooking Indian food, learning languages (Hindi, Bengali, Sanskrit) that some have gone on to use academically, and so on. I think it's important to reclaim both sides of the experience and re-integrate it into our lives and then move on without feeling like those years were a total waste. It's sad to feel like several years or more of your life were stolen, even if that's partially true. Those years do inform who you are today and are not a weakness but a strength. Once you've finished writing/talking/re-examining those years you may find that you put them back on the shelf and move on, richer for this period of introspection. I hope your whole family can find a way to digest this painful experience. In a sense, your parents were also victims of this charismatic and controlling leader who convinced them to follow his every pronouncement.
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lectio
Full Member
growing...
Posts: 128
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Post by lectio on Jul 15, 2009 13:39:30 GMT -5
stampinmama, I'm late to the game here, but I wanted to say that your post was SO very very good. (((((hugs)))) Well said, well said.
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