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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Apr 19, 2010 7:27:14 GMT -5
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Hillary
Full Member
"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
Posts: 129
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Post by Hillary on Apr 19, 2010 8:36:26 GMT -5
Oh Sierra ~ brilliant post. So right, so sadly right.
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Post by bananacat on Apr 19, 2010 8:41:04 GMT -5
I've always felt bad for the QF women who have no choice but to have long hair. When I was a teenager, I chose to let my hair grow very long, so that I could donate to a charity that makes wigs for cancer patients.
By the time my hair got close to my waist, I was so tired of caring for it. I had planned to chop it off at the end of college, but I just couldn't wait that long and did it two years early. Washing and drying it every single day was a chore. It seemed like my entire life revolved around caring for my hair, and I didn't even put much effort into styling or curling it. It seemed to always get in the way, and when I needed to dirty work like cleaning or swimming, I would put it into two long braids, and some QF women aren't even allowed to do that. I can't imagine cooking and cleaning and chasing after kids all day with all that hair.
The only "products" I used were conditioner and a leave-in conditioner, no hairspray or gel or anything. Even so, I still spent a small fortune on shampoo and conditioner. When I got my hair cut to shoulder-length, it felt so liberating both physically and financially. I'm glad I did it to help another person, but the whole time I knew that I would eventually get rid of it. I can't imagine having it like that and knowing I have to keep it that way forever.
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Post by jemand on Apr 19, 2010 11:57:51 GMT -5
I've always loved my hair long, and it's never been a hassle for me. Then again, the reason for this is that I wash it on average about three times a week, and brush it on average about twice a week... It is also long enough for me to literally tie into a bun, which removes the need for any hair ties or other restraints if I happen to start doing an activity I need it out of my face for.
Anyway, I've never had any trouble with this, it looks great, smells great, etc. I think so many people have short hair the social "rules" for what is required to be presentable are made for them, when the hair is more likely to get greasy quickly and doesn't settle into doing it's own thing. Plus, rules for women are often required to be difficult no matter whether it's 'necessary' or not...
I'm fairly certain ALL the guys with long hair never even attempt to hold themselves to the daily wash, brush, dry, simple style routine that everyone assumes women have to heed.
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Post by grandmalou on Apr 19, 2010 11:58:09 GMT -5
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Post by xara on Apr 19, 2010 12:20:05 GMT -5
I have had long hair most of my life but mostly because my hair is baby fine and mostly straight (the last few years I have gotten a bit of wave) and it laughs at "product." In high school I would spend an hour each morning curling and spraying my hair. Ten minutes later, it was straight again, just sticky.
So I decided to let it live its life and I live mine. I wash it and condition it each day (if I don't it looks horribly greasy) run a comb through it, let it air dry and forget it. Most of the time I wear a headband to keep it out of my face. Or a ponytail using a scrunchie. I can tie my hair in a knot like jemand but it is so fine it unties itself in a minute or so.
It used to be a lot longer (down to my hips) but I got tired of sweeping the floor with it when I bent over, and sitting on it, and slamming it in the car door, so a few years ago I had about a foot and a half cut off. Now I get about 2 or 3 haircuts a year and each time have about 8 to 10 inches lopped off. It grows really quickly. But I like it just a bit longer than shoulder length because then I have some curl but can still pull it into a ponytail. At this length it requires very little upkeep but it still flexible in options.
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Post by whatkindofwoman on Apr 19, 2010 12:50:41 GMT -5
The refuge of the ugly was, ironically, extra beauty sleep.
So perfectly put!!! ;D
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Post by janedoe on Apr 19, 2010 13:17:49 GMT -5
May my heart break over some things here, be I pray, some Healing for many of you. OK, how to say this, one, for starters, let me begin by saying I so relate to the whole beauty standard and the hurt, that cuts like a knife, that you felt, that many of you have, let me say, though it's NO consolation, sadly this beauty standard 'measurement' that really is like a knife, that cuts and cuts with ridges that split and tear, is all over this world, and we feel those cuts in so many directions we look and live. On the other hand, if it Wasn't so painful, it would be almost comical, and maybe, we could find some dark humor in the paradoxes somehow, maybe not, dark humor in the Irony I mean, at just how 'beauty' measurements are really not about beauty at all, but a mere Weapon, to force a type of eugenics or pure race tree, and that have Nothing, really to do with God, but man's turning God into an 'image of Corruptible Man'. Romans 1:23-25 I know for my daughter and her people [ancestors on father's side] they were not to cut their hair, and unfortunately when white man [Europeans/Spaniards] came to this nation they did take the girls, and cut their braids. My daughter [second oldest] is half Cherokee Nation. For years I would not allow her to cut [though I did trim] her long jet black straight hair as a Respect and Tribute to her ancestors who thousands were merciless starved, raped, butchered on the Trail of Tears. It would be the first time I saw hair and beauty as a racial standard, the Belief [and ironically, the Same belief is in Old Testament, in the story of Samson and in other stories, such as Absalom in OT, King David's son, and they Did wear Dread locks then...which, well, I like dreads on men--Rastafarian, yum, , LOL], Anyhoo, [let me cool off here, lol, don't ask, OK, back to subject at hand] but the belief was that there was Strength in the hair, it's spiritual, which you know Jesus said, that God loves us so much that Every single hair on our head is numbered and He knows the numbers. That takes some intimate knowledge, if you see God as a force/Spirit, physics then that's not hard to imagine] but, the Native Indians believed very similar...so for their hair to be deliberately cut, was an attack on their nationhood, ethnicity, a type of cultural genocide. A humiliation, of being conquered, taken as slaves, which is The meaning in Bible, when women shaved, [also in NT which is why it mentions the covering, it was to End those separations between holy women and what was known then as loose/harlot or slave/sex slave women] and to show Equality, that God is no respecter of Persons. [though many have twisted those covering scriptures against women] I always wanted long hair, I was never allowed to have it, my mother chopped off my hair [violently I might add] and that was how it was till I moved out at 17. My hair was horrid, she not only chopped it like a boy's, she would yank it out and scream at me while brushing when it got matted, which it often did because I rocked the bed due to fear/terror, how I learned to comfort myself from toddler/maybe even infant? So I always wanted so bad to have long hair...I did finally, in my mid twenties, though never to my waist it would never grow that long. For years I kept it that way till my third child and my hair changed texture and well, it just looked like a mop so I began to cut it, now I keep it in a curly bob. [gray hair, too lazy to fix it, LOL] Anyhow, so, I guess my point is, that it's sad how something like hair can be such a powerful force, and maybe there really IS strength in it, otherwise, why would it be such a hurt, when used against us? I remember, one time my husband was being horrible to me and I went into the bathroom and I whacked my hair...he hated my hair short, and I know, I did this, in spite yet at the same time, I felt like I was dying inside, like I was reliving all the internalized self hate from my mother...the last time I did this, God said, Don't do it. I had been punishing myself...hair like food became not something I embraced but a weapon, of self reflection, of how I felt...about myself, a type of Cutting, like cutting of the flesh, to gain some kind of 'getting back control' but the thing is I didn't really have that control, so I needed healing there. The last time I cut my hair, I promised myself that Never Again, would I cut my hair as a retaliation, for whatever reason. I don't know if I'll grow it long again, it really annoys me when it just hangs limp..I do prefer the being able to scrunch it and it just curling, maybe as I get older, into my 70s I'll grow dreads, LOL, with beads or something, maybe not, but hair, our strength, our covering, regardless of length, is those tendrils that the sun shines on and the Wind caresses, when I used to think about women who are forced to be veiled all I could think about, was what must it be like, to not ever feel God's wind caressing your hair across your face? To not feel your hair caress in the wind across your neck or arms, depending on length. I used to imagine, telling them, secretly, just cut a bit of it, about three inches, wrap a band around one section, and the next time the wind blows and you're outside put the hair on your arm so you'll know how good it feels, to know how sweet it is to be caressed by God, by the Winds, by the Rain... That, THAT is what hair should be, NOT a measurement of knife, NOT a measurement of Worth, but like a horse's mane or a lion's, the Strength that Laughs at the haters because She knows her worth, in God's eyes, She knows her Strength, in Him, Her Worth, every time the wind blows, the sun bears down and warms every strand with color, times the gentle breezes that send a wisp or two teasingly around the eyes, or times when like when the winds send the hair like a whip that slashes and one must hold the hair and the struggle is on, Who will win, the hair or the wind? Alas, lol, it's Always, the Wind. But oh what a joy that is, to feel Alive, to be able to look at the sun's rays and to Feel, that we, Women, were given this Hair, be it long or short, medium, straight or curly or kinky or wiry, brown, gray, white, black or blonde or red, that We were given this hair, this hair that IS like the tree branches, the hands of God, in the Winds... who caresses us or scolds us or warns us, or teases us, like laughter, if we just Listen we can hear and if we listen, we can hear....Him whispering, in our hair, in the Wind, "I Love You". That is, our Strength, and no matter if they cut it out of Hate, or if we cut it out of Self-Hate taught to us by others, [excluding cutting it if we so desire out of love], no matter, hair grows back...[just like Samson's and the Strength is never gone--the Strength was always there, it was the blindness that did not see it there because the eyes/his eyes did not see the Source, not his hair but the Love that knew the every strand numbered] because no amount of measuring knives or words that destroy can silence the Wind. Love, Jane
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Post by sargassosea on Apr 19, 2010 13:44:02 GMT -5
Bah! Whatkindofwoman beat me to it! "The refuge of the ugly was, ironically, extra beauty sleep."
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Post by mommybunny1 on Apr 19, 2010 16:39:33 GMT -5
I saw this piece on hair and it really moved me. I post rarely anymore because as a non-Christian I felt that I might be off-putting to those who really need this forum. I come from a mainstream Jewish background. Hair is thought to me a male attractant in the Jewish tradition. The practice of the Orthodox women to cover their hair in public is to make them less attractive to "outsider" males. this was especially true in certain European monarchies where the nobleman were permitted to "deflower" women on the night before their wedding.
Fast forward to my growing up in the 1960's in America. My mother and father insisted I keep my hair short. I have thick dark curly hair (as ethnically typical) kind of like Amy Irving's. My parents deemed this a horror and told me that Short hair was my only option. I fought them on and off over the years. Even as an adult, every time I let it go long, I would hear about how ugly it was. It was a weird mixed message. Hair is a sexual attractant. It was clear throughout my life that my parents were not comfortable with the idea I may be attractive to men. (Even when I was married) On the other hand, I had ugly hair, so it would be a waste of time to try to look attractive keeping it long. Either way, the emphasis was to look sort of neutral. Long hair would either make me a seductress or a witch and niether of these were acceptable.
Does this make any sense?
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Post by janedoe on Apr 19, 2010 18:29:54 GMT -5
Mommybunny1, Yea it makes sense, a Lot of sense, my husband's tribe, they for some reason make women Shave their heads Then wear wigs/coverings, so not to be attractive to anyone else? ? Which, I never could figure that one, why have wife shave for husband at home then wear Wig in public? I never could reconcile that with especially what the Nazi's did in the camps and he's never been able to answer. Of All the OT law I've yet to ever See any such customs but I have read about Jewish women in times of old being targeted for rape [and other women of other hated groups, depending on era-region] and so on That, I can understand a little of the reasoning though I don't concur with it, about the pre-wedding night rapes [think it was common in Roman Empire too, though I've only read that in one book, wouldn't surprise me] nor does my husband [and I never would even contemplate it] practice the custom he grew up with and as far as I know his mother doesn't either... what is interesting is that some of these beliefs correspond with why in Islam women were veiled [the origination of] so, one would I suppose yes, could assume hair was deemed a sexual attractant, I would think though it was more just another way for men/patriarchy to curtail women's freedom, if That isn't and wasn't enough, they also cut Other body parts off of women--or insist on the cutting of, all in all, it boils down to this: MISOGYNY so whatever Excuses men, tribes, religions, systems, Use, to cover by force or to shave by force or to insist on certain hair styles or clothing or removal of body parts [esp this whole thing now with the shave so one can look like a 6 year old porn culture thing, which to me is just another clever misogynist custom] are just that, Excuses...misogynist excuses to Control, to Curtail, to Keep women, in a Rapunzel Dungeon. And if there is any 'Witch', it's the Witch, the Warlock, that is the dragon-lord of that Castle Dungeon that Rapunzel is locked into...and sadly, there is no Prince that comes to the rescue. A smart Rapunzel, takes that long hair, and sets up a noose, and Hangs that ole witch/warlock WARDEN, LOL ;D and then uses the rest of her hair, to climb down, a swing rope, then works to rescue other women, LOL. I know, awful analogy, but hell, I tried. Jane
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Post by grandmalou on Apr 19, 2010 18:58:23 GMT -5
Hair has always perplexed me. Whaddaya do with incorrigible, straight as a stick, extremely thick, wildly flying, impossible to bend into curls graying hair??? Mom used to tell me "You have to SUFFER for beauty"...to which I would ask "WHY?" and revolt against the curlers, the perms with their smelly solutions, etc. and stick it into a ponytail, combed straight back. Letting it grow and fall into my eyes would have driven me NUTS! Not to mention Mom constantly reminding me that I should NEVER have bangs, because of my "low forehead, just like your grandmother who looked like a monkey..." that was my paternal grandmother, whom Mom despised, although she was a darling little lady who stood up for women's rights waaaay back when! Seeing girls fling theirs out of their eyes constantly all day long, giving themselves whiplashes, likewise drives me nuts...I wannna provide them ALL with barrettes or maybe even a crew cut!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by nikita on Apr 20, 2010 0:33:57 GMT -5
This whole legalistic long hair thing fascinates me. Way back when I was a little hippie girl I was caught up in the Jesus movement, but a strict fringe sect not the campus kind, more of a tougher crowd, communal living to an extent, etc. We were very strict about sin and the appearance of sin. Legalistic in many ways. But physical appearance meant nothing to us, it was completely individual. And hairspray was so retro, we considered it rather worldly and bonus points for bad for the environment. LOL Makeup, although not forbidden, would get teased about and any beauty regimen should be kept to a minimum because there was so much to do for God and that was considered frivolous. One girl with gorgeous long hair actually cut it to her shoulders because she said she felt she spent too much time caring for her very long hair and God impressed upon her that it was wasted time. Everyone was thrilled with her dedication. Well, I wasn't so much because I liked her long hair but I did think the thought was a nice one. So I cannot understand the extreme attention given to such superficial and time consuming matters. Just from a spiritual standpoint it makes no sense to me. One set of rules forbids even trimming your hair, as though women were akin to Samson in the bible. Another refuses to even permit a simple braid to get all that hair out of the way to get stuff done, because 'it isn't biblical'. Talk about missing the point of that particular scripture entirely. It's like the thinking goes: "Let's make the women do all the grunt work night and day, hamper them with difficult clothing and impossible hair. Oh! And don't let them get their hair out of their way while they work either. That's what God would want." <<insert muttered profanity here>> Again, it's Martha versus Mary, and these particular patriarchs seemed to have missed the point entirely of that tale. They don't seem to attribute any actual spirituality to women at all, they just want a lot of obedient Marthas serving and cleaning and not creating any 'problems' for them. They are so focused on taking scriptures out of context that they cannot see the whole picture. I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't destroying people in the process. There's a spiritual price to pay for such pride and willful ignorance, and I think these people are going to pay dearly someday, more than they already are. I love your writing, btw, and feel you have so much to add to the record. For that is what this is, the record of error and wrongs (Happy Festivus! as someone else here posted LOL) but it is important to have a place where they are recorded and discussed and worked through respectfully with each other. Our lives are all so different but the underlying issues are often the same. I was raised agnostic, converted to a Christian cult from fifteen to thirty-one, left that during a huge crisis/church split situation and landed into being a converted Catholic, which I remain. Another was raised Jewish, another feminist/abuser (I don't know what to call that, forgive me), another QF, another some other fundy denomination, another Krishna.... But the underlying issues are our common ground. This is a very special community of souls. This is a good place. I'm glad we're all here.
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Post by Sierra on Apr 20, 2010 4:17:14 GMT -5
Thank you all for your comments, and welcome, nikita! For the sake of visuals, I should add that what I'm describing is 'Duggar Hair.' Hip length or below, curled all the way down. You should have seen the size of their heads in rollers every night. (I tried to do what they did for a while... even with half the hair, those rollers were painful to sleep on!) Braids were allowed in my church, but most women opted for the bun. The 'messy bun' was in style in Message of the Hour churches. It was a reaction of the younger women against the older women's topknot, which looked basically like this: blog.familytreemagazine.com/photodetectiveblog/content/binary/other-close1.jpgI was the only woman who consistently wore her hair down. It made me feel a bit dangerous, actually. ;D A side note on jus prima noctis, the 'right' of a lord to sleep with the brides of his peasants: there's no historical evidence of it ever actually taking place. What has been found, however, is a lot of references to barbaric kingdoms where it happened in the past. It seems to be a long-lived and well-travelled rumour, a bit like cannibalism. When you look at the historical record, you see a lot of people accusing other people of jus prima noctis or cannibalism as a way of saying ' That's how backward those other people are. We're sensible!' From a peasant's standpoint, there were enough excuses for riots to deter a lecherous lord from even trying to implement such a custom (the lord, whatever his power, was pretty isolated from other nobles and relatively vulnerable if his peasants started to organize against him). Even from the lord's point of view, it doesn't make a lot of sense, as any resulting firstborns would be traceable to him and therefore it would be his responsibility to provide for them financially. There were plenty of upper-class courtesans around; peasant women would have been the last on his list of 'options.'
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Post by andromeda on Apr 20, 2010 6:24:17 GMT -5
This was such a sad post. (((Sierra))) It's bad enough being a young girl and dealing with the beauty standards society tries to push down our throats. But to come up against the same beauty standards, except that The Powers That Be won't even admit to the fact that these are "worldly" standards and not deity's, and to be given the message that one could be "beautiful" if only one were faithful enough...it's yet another way this movement torments its young girls.
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Post by grandmalou on Apr 20, 2010 7:12:31 GMT -5
Welcome Nikita...and all who posted re: Sierra's excellent post (thanks, Sierra). I want to comment on your post here, Nikita, and quote you: "Another refuses to even permit a simple braid to get all that hair out of the way to get stuff done, because 'it isn't biblical'. Talk about missing the point of that particular scripture entirely. It's like the thinking goes: "Let's make the women do all the grunt work night and day, hamper them with difficult clothing and impossible hair." Whoa, and does the QF/P etc. ever miss the point, huh? I spoke yesterday of my grandmother "who looked like a monkey" according to my mother. How she was a very outspoken woman for women's rights, but she actually had this extremely long hair. I'm betting it was almost to the floor. And my paternal grandfather loved her and brushed that hair for her, 100 strokes every night, then BRAIDED it for her, one long braid, which in the morning he helped her to wind around and around and pile on top of her head. Oh...did I mention that the two of them were very strongly Christians, and I suspect from Jewish origins? So I think they sorta figured out what the Bible really was saying about most things, including the braid thing. And hair. But the length thing, I still can't figure out. Just know what a loving thing that was for him to brush her hair like that. In fact, both of my grandfathers were totally devoted to my grandmothers...and then the next generation came along and weird, twisted men began to mistreat the women in their lives...and has kinda been that way ever since. So...what the hell happened? Hey! Will we ever get to the bottom of this???
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Post by nikita on Apr 20, 2010 7:51:36 GMT -5
Well, a lot goes into making things this twisted so it's not ever just one thing that causes people to twist scriptures to suit their own selfish needs. BUT...
I blame bible studies and teaching 'the meat of the word'. Not that study isn't a good thing, but I saw it getting emphasized and kind of out of control in the surrounding christian fundamentalist/evangelical world way back when and it hasn't let up ever since, it's gotten even worse.
It was never enough to just read scriptures and try to live the love and service and practice the sermon on the mount and embrace the messages of the parables etc. Just doing that would take up a lifetime. No, there were all these men everywhere insisting that folks needed 'the meat', that we needed to 'delve deep into the bible' etc. And once you cover the obvious stuff the teachers need to dig deeper, see more meanings in each passage, parse every word in every verse, find something new and interesting to think about, apply, believe in. Be the one who found the real truth of this obscure scripture or that one.
So the obvious messages -- lovingkindness, service to one another, treating others as you would yourself, etc -- get mowed down by the fanciful torturing of all scripture, both the commonly known and the more obscure. You find men getting more play out of obsessing over women's hair length or whether they braid it or not, and tracking every single thing their wives and children do every minute of every day in the name of 'dominion' and 'authority'.
They are so far out of line with actual spirituality and scripture that it's astonishing to behold.
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Post by humbletigger on Apr 20, 2010 10:37:21 GMT -5
Jon Zen just published a great book What's With Paul and Women? that brings up the hair verses.
Sheesh. What a big to do over nothing. Much sympathy to all abused thereby.
Score on the extra sleep, Sierra! Bwahahaha. It gives me wicked pleasure to envision you catching more ZZZs while the hairspray brigade was hard put. ;D
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Post by grandmalou on Apr 20, 2010 12:18:46 GMT -5
Well, a lot goes into making things this twisted so it's not ever just one thing that causes people to twist scriptures to suit their own selfish needs. BUT... I blame bible studies and teaching 'the meat of the word'. Not that study isn't a good thing, but I saw it getting emphasized and kind of out of control in the surrounding christian fundamentalist/evangelical world way back when and it hasn't let up ever since, it's gotten even worse. It was never enough to just read scriptures and try to live the love and service and practice the sermon on the mount and embrace the messages of the parables etc. Just doing that would take up a lifetime. No, there were all these men everywhere insisting that folks needed 'the meat', that we needed to 'delve deep into the bible' etc. And once you cover the obvious stuff the teachers need to dig deeper, see more meanings in each passage, parse every word in every verse, find something new and interesting to think about, apply, believe in. Be the one who found the real truth of this obscure scripture or that one. So the obvious messages -- lovingkindness, service to one another, treating others as you would yourself, etc -- get mowed down by the fanciful torturing of all scripture, both the commonly known and the more obscure. You find men getting more play out of obsessing over women's hair length or whether they braid it or not, and tracking every single thing their wives and children do every minute of every day in the name of 'dominion' and 'authority'. They are so far out of line with actual spirituality and scripture that it's astonishing to behold. Ain't it the truth! Thanks for this response, Nikita...lots of things to think about, huh? Oh, if we all could just get back to the "Golden Rule"!
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Post by krwordgazer on Apr 21, 2010 0:43:05 GMT -5
"And those of us with ravaged faces, lacking in the social graces. . . " That was me, too, Sierra. I can hardly imagine how much worse it would have been to be in The Message. It's like they sucked all the joy out of EVERYTHING and deliberately magnified the pain.
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Post by janedoe on Apr 21, 2010 2:09:33 GMT -5
One set of rules forbids even trimming your hair, as though women were akin to Samson in the bible. Nikita, not sure if you are taking this from the post I wrote regarding Native American Indians and the hair and then the symbolism regarding Samson but if so, that isn't what I was saying, not even Close. So just to clarify, just in case...the belief among the Cherokees was not about Legalism, of any sort, nor the reference to Samson [if looking at the Ancients, which I do, these are Spiritual beliefs about the world of the Spirit and matter, Completely different from the teachings of legalism today taught by QF and other sects]. That was what I was referencing too, and the Colonization and Genocide in part against the Native American Indians, did include cultural genocide/especially against their Spiritual beliefs [similar to the Ancient beliefs in Samaria and Mesopotamia at the Time of yes, Samson, B.C.] by the forced cutting of the Hair, which was a symbol of, similar to castration of males, humiliation and conquest/erasure of the spiritual and native Customs of a people. That is similar if not the same, as the using of hair [be it forcing it to be cut or covered or long] as a Weapon of control over Women. It's a form of Colonization and controls--using a psychological warfare, that was my point, not to encourage any kind of dogma/legalism be it religious or secular [both of which I abhor]. Thought I would clarify that to not cause any confusion... Jane
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Post by nikita on Apr 21, 2010 3:23:33 GMT -5
janedoe -- Hi. No, I was just relating it to the rule some sects have about women never even trimming their hair, and my remark about Samson was sarcastic. Samson's strength was in his hair while the bible talks about hair being a woman's covering and glory but these sect leaders reduce it to a burden imposed from outside, like if a woman cuts her hair she has somehow defiled herself and/or is walking around naked or something. Instead of being a symbol of strength it is a defense for a woman's intrinsic weakness and vulnerability. Thoughts along those lines. That was all I was relating to there, no other cultures or traditions involved. Some sects impose the long hair and a cloth hair covering on top of that. It's all a little overly, you know? These men seriously need to examine their obsessive need to regulate the body hair of other people. It's not natural.
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Post by jemand on Apr 21, 2010 7:58:29 GMT -5
The idea of hair and the keeping of long hair is just different in different cultures, different associations, different pressures. Like this: www.examiner.com/x-10853-Portland-Humanist-Examiner~y2009m6d29-Native-American-boy-fights-Texas-school-over-hair-cutIt seems less of a way for others to impose external rules on another group of people and more of a personal decision of aesthetics and spirituality and individuality. It's hard to support the idea that "long hair is beautiful/a glory" when you immediately start denigrating it on men and force THEM to remove it. Because in that case it's not about hair, it's about gender roles and staying in your assigned box based on who you were born as.
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Post by duplessis3 on Apr 21, 2010 11:36:35 GMT -5
Thanks Jemand. There are a lot of different hair traditions, and none are (imho) closer to god than another. One of my pet peeves is refering to "Native Americans" as if they are a monolithic group - different groups have different traditions. Some warriors grew their hair and some shaved it and some had mohawks. Making generalizations like this is like saying all Christians believe the same things.
As for the Jewish thing - the sheitl (wig worn for religious purposes) is a very very very very old tradition and way predates the Nazis (although of course not persecution.) Some orthodox women wear scarves rather than a sheitl. And I'm betting the reason why many continue to wear them is to give the finger to the Nazis who tried to kill them all off.
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Post by janedoe on Apr 22, 2010 1:19:21 GMT -5
One of my pet peeves is refering to "Native Americans" as if they are a monolithic group - different groups have different traditions. Some warriors grew their hair and some shaved it and some had mohawks. Making generalizations like this is like saying all Christians believe the same things.
Granted, they are not a monolithic group, and they do have different traditions, however the Spiritual beliefs among them are more similar, and the Genocide against them, in part, especially my daughter's people/Nation, did include the forced cutting of hair/cultural genocide. As for the shaving of women's hair, I don't buy the whole thumbing the noses at the Nazi's, it's a custom to 'humiliate' the woman or to subjugate her to the husband, it is a Misogynist practice, PERIOD. I asked my husband, he told me... why he shuns it, JUST because it's been done since ancient times doesn't mean it's NOT misogynist, they've been Stoning women since ancient times too for rape, don't make it right nor tolerable, regardless of why Some, emphasis on SOME women still practice these misogynist customs, which many would say [including Jewish women who reject the misogyny in Patriarchal Judaism and who have been, like many women fighting patriarchy and misogynist customs/doctrines forced onto them by MEN, not GOD] are not thumbing anything but internalized misogyny or acts done under abusive types of coercion, etc., though yes, like in patriarchal/misogynist religions many women, will argue counter to that...that's their right, but from what my husband told me when I brought it to his attention [and He is Orthodox] he said, it is to humiliate her and keep her subjugated to the husband/or to know her 'place'. Which, btw, though the custom may predate Nazi's, it IS what the Nazi's did, they shaved the hair, to humiliate and to subjugate, as well as stripping them and killing them in the chambers, which going back to my Original point, is what they did to the Cherokee Indians, why my daughter didn't cut her hair, until She decided to, that was her choice out of respect for Her ancestors, and I didn't cut it to respect her ancestors. In that way, Yes, MEN controlling what women do with their Hair, their Bodies, their Voice, their Lives, to Subjugate them, yes, is Very much, the same psychology of superiority and entitlement, except, it's not just racial superiority, it's Male superiority belief or Supra Male Patriarchal Superiority...which is, Misogyny and Chauvinism. I detest Both...and as far as I'm concerned, those 'I"m better than you because I'm blue eyed or have a penis, IS yes, monolithic...I say, down with Both of the superiority tyrannies. Jane
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