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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 3, 2010 13:55:41 GMT -5
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Lolly
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Post by Lolly on Mar 3, 2010 14:12:24 GMT -5
Back up a minute there, Mr. P... A child was beaten to death by parents following your methods. Anything to say about that while you're laughing?
(Also, doctors? Cutting-edge innovation? Really?)
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 14:25:55 GMT -5
oh god, how disgusting. You know... I have to say, this isn't the first time I've heard Dominionist/QF/P leaning people make despicable jokes. I attended a youth group meeting one time where the youth of the church found it utterly hiliarious to make jokes about the church family who'd just converted to Catholicism being brutally tortured in the pits of Hell. They were just gleeful about it.
And that's not nearly as bad as making a joke about someone whose parents *beat her to death.* This kind of arrogance knows know bounds. Didn't these people read the bit in the Bible about pride?
Do others remember hearing these kinds of cruel jokes among the QF set? I just wonder how common this kind of "humor" is... Their readers seem so completely unfazed by it.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 3, 2010 14:30:16 GMT -5
That is just one big boatload of self-righteous, holier than thou judgmentalism!
I almost want to say that he sounds like he has a mental illness of some kind. IDK - narcissistic personality disorder maybe. But I won't, because that might excuse him in some way from the guilt that should be heaped upon him for this crime.
That's all I can say, because I can feel my BP rising as I type! Grrrr!!
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 14:39:36 GMT -5
I almost want to say that he sounds like he has a mental illness of some kind. IDK - narcissistic personality disorder maybe. But I won't, because that might excuse him in some way from the guilt that should be heaped upon him for this crime. Also, mental illness =/= evil abuser. To write this off as mental illness would be offensive to people who have mental illnesses.
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Post by amanda on Mar 3, 2010 14:45:37 GMT -5
I think there's something in the QF mindset -- all cultic mindsets -- that allows the practitioners to believe that it's the rest of us who are foolish, when it is so clear to anyone with reasonable perspective that it is the cultists who are instead mired in a world of delusion and denial.
Michael Pearl is no exception, as clearly evidenced by the fact that he's able to write a "laughing" post in the face of this poor child's death. One of his supporters tries to point out that he's laughing at those who disparage his child rearing techniques, not at the death of this poor little girl... but really, you can't separate the two.
Disgusting.
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Hillary
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"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
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Post by Hillary on Mar 3, 2010 14:56:10 GMT -5
I am weeping. I cannot believe this.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 3, 2010 14:57:21 GMT -5
I agree with you, km, that to label him as mentally ill would be offensive to those with mental illness. He does, however, seem almost like a psychopath, with his total lack of empathy. He needs to be prosecuted.
And yes, I've heard the QF and fundies make awful jokes and be "gleeful" about how others who aren't part of the fold would be tortured for all eternity. It is sick.
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:01:07 GMT -5
I agree with you, km, that to label him as mentally ill would be offensive to those with mental illness. He does, however, seem almost like a psychopath, with his total lack of empathy. He needs to be prosecuted. And yes, I've heard the QF and fundies make awful jokes and be "gleeful" about how others who aren't part of the fold would be tortured for all eternity. It is sick. Yeah, I understand that wrt psychopathy. And, you're right, that kind of haha humor really is sick.
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Post by AnnieNonymous on Mar 3, 2010 15:07:59 GMT -5
You know...you can report that note for racist/hate speech...
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Post by loverofpurple on Mar 3, 2010 15:11:21 GMT -5
This is nauseating. Completely unbelievable. It's so disturbing to see the blind followers validating this sicko. Ugh. Unlike most of you, I didn't grow up or marry into a quiverful lifestyle, but from attending "the World's Most Unusual University" for a total of 6 years, I am very, very familiar with the mindset and the lifestyle. I have spent many, many years untangling all of that indoctrination. They use their own forms of guilt, shaming, and mind control. Barf. I completely agree with you Vyckie: God, if He is there, is most definitely not laughing. Hopefully there is a serious investigation taking place related to Lydia's tragic death. Hopefully this rant will be used against this arrogant, prideful, sick, twisted ass. This man must be brought to justice at some point. He needs to go to prison for his role in the deaths of these children, not to mention all the kids that are currently or have been tortured and abused by these parenting practices. This is sooooo infuriating. Thank you for providing a place to vent.
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:22:09 GMT -5
Okay, I just realized from going to the Pearls' link that he is not only making light of the situation, but using it as a marketing opportunity. Just under the post, there's a place where you can "get your own copy of TO TRAIN UP A CHILD and find out what all the squawking is about. Click on the image for ordering information." BLECH...
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Post by yoshimay on Mar 3, 2010 15:28:34 GMT -5
Is there somewhere we can go to voice our opinions to him?
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:30:59 GMT -5
Is there somewhere we can go to voice our opinions to him? Well, Vyckie linked his blog post (containing the facebook message) in her post. I noticed there are no comments there yet. Who knows if any of us would get past the moderation queue? And I guess there's always Facebook.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 3, 2010 15:33:31 GMT -5
Is there somewhere we can go to voice our opinions to him? I want to do this too. But fundies take great pleasure in someone speaking against them. It's "proof" to them that they are "doing God's will," because anyone who is in the will of God will be persecuted by the world. I don't care if he is persecuted or not. I want him to be prosecuted more than anything.
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:41:59 GMT -5
Is there somewhere we can go to voice our opinions to him? I want to do this too. But fundies take great pleasure in someone speaking against them. It's "proof" to them that they are "doing God's will," because anyone who is in the will of God will be persecuted by the world. I don't care if he is persecuted or not. I want him to be prosecuted more than anything. So, I was just brainstorming about ways to do something about this, and I noted that Vyckie says No Greater Joys Ministries is a $1.5 million a year industry. And that made me suspect that they have tax exempt non-profit status. At minimum, some kind of fuss could be made out of the fact that the Pearls have become rich this way--and don't likely pay taxes. But, yeah, I want him to be prosecuted too. Unfortunately, I think that kind of "free speech" is a little too...um...free and unregulated in the US.
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jennie
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Post by jennie on Mar 3, 2010 15:51:33 GMT -5
How would a group of people go about making an organized fuss about it? This is a good idea because it would hit them where it hurts, in their pocketbook.
Yes - I hate it how people hide behind "free speech." And government seems scared to even try to do anything about it, especially if it is any kind of religious organization.
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:59:10 GMT -5
How would a group of people go about making an organized fuss about it? This is a good idea because it would hit them where it hurts, in their pocketbook. Yes - I hate it how people hide behind "free speech." And government seems scared to even try to do anything about it, especially if it is any kind of religious organization. Right. Unfortunately, I think this is probably something that is protected by the first amendment. That's why I think the only thing to do about it is raise an organized fuss about it--and publicize what they're doing. First, I guess we'd need to find out if they're a non-profit in the first place? Anyone know how to check this? Then, we'd need to check the kinds of rules and regulations non-profits have to follow in order to remain tax exempt and see if we can show they're in violation of the rules... Vyckie has gotten to know some people in the media, and I'm guessing she could be helpful in getting this story out there?
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 15:59:52 GMT -5
By the way, here's a lovely quote from Pearl circa 2006 (from the Salon article):
"Don't be so indiscreet as to spank your children in public -- including the church restroom," he writes on his Web site. But discretion, here, is more than just the better part of embarrassing your kid. "I get letters regularly telling of trouble with in-laws who threaten to report them to the authorities," he goes on. "Parents have called the Gestapo on their married children. Church friends who have noses longer than the pews on which they perch can cause a world of trouble. If you cannot get [your children] trained before going out in public, stay home and read our four books again. If the Federal or State agencies take me to court over advocating corporal chastisement, this will be part of my defense: 'He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (Prov. 13:24).'"
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 3, 2010 16:00:13 GMT -5
Is there somewhere we can go to voice our opinions to him? Well, Vyckie linked his blog post (containing the facebook message) in her post. I noticed there are no comments there yet. Who knows if any of us would get past the moderation queue? And I guess there's always Facebook. Just to clarify: the first link: pearlchildtraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-pearl-laughs-at-critics.html which Asteli posted is not Michael Pearl's website ~ it is the blog which "protectchildren" linked to in this post: nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=ngj&thread=733&post=12350. When I first read it ~ I was sure that it must be some sort of scam ~ surely Michael Pearl is not *that* in-your-face crazy to have actually written that "Laughing" post?!! But I followed the link to the Facebook page ~ and sure enough ~ that really is posted as a note on their No Greater Joy fan page. O... M ... G...
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 16:01:31 GMT -5
We could also get a ton of stuff out there so that the first google hits for "Michael Pearl" include critical information, not laudatory stuff.
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flah
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Post by flah on Mar 3, 2010 16:07:37 GMT -5
Sweet, isn't it? They can never be called to task because in their heart of hearts they believe they are one with God, so anyone that opposes them on any level is by definition Satanic. This applies mainly to anyone "weaker" than them, including women and children, and apparently dogs, too! In any thinking society this is delusion on a grand scale, but it's applauded in America's fundamentalism. Enough is enough. A child died directly because of this man. That's my opinion.
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Post by km on Mar 3, 2010 16:10:09 GMT -5
Sweet, isn't it? They can never be called to task because in their heart of hearts they believe they are one with God, so anyone that opposes them on any level is by definition Satanic. This applies mainly to anyone "weaker" than them, including women and children, and apparently dogs, too! In any thinking society this is delusion on a grand scale, but it's applauded in America's fundamentalism. Enough is enough. A child died directly because of this man. That's my opinion. Actually, a few children have died as a result of these teachings by now. Ugh...
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Post by EDavis on Mar 3, 2010 16:15:26 GMT -5
His reaction is beyond sick. Tragic. Self centered.
Is that photo of the maniacal man at the top of the post a picture of him or is it used as a joke??
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Post by notsocommon on Mar 3, 2010 16:15:46 GMT -5
I have been reading NLQ and the forums for a while, now. This post finally made me sign up to post here. This man and his followers are utterly disgusting. I weep for children like mine who have ADHD (or similar issues) My daughter has severe ADHD and I could not imagine what she would go through if she was being raised in this mindset. The thought of the level of abuse that would be tried to 'train' her is scary. She's far too impulsive and it takes PATIENCE and many many many tries for her to get it right. My DD is a loving free spirit and there is no way in hell that I am willing to literally beat that out of her! I'll take the frustration I have in dealing with her over an automated robot ANY DAY! I'll even take her screaming as I haul her out of church over 'trained' children. Want another sick bit of child abuse? Try a sermon from Voddie. This is labeled as one of the *best* sermons by some of his followers. He advocates Showing them in the Bible where it 'commands' parents to beat their children then literally 'wearing them out.' Utterly disgusting....and a surefire way to raise, at the very least, bitter atheist or at worse another Dahmer. defendingcontending.com/2009/02/11/sermon-of-the-week-child-training-by-voddie-baucham/
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