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Post by margybargy on Mar 4, 2010 12:59:01 GMT -5
In a case like Lydia's, is there anyone besides the parents who have the standing to file a wrongful death suit against the Pearls?
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Post by bananacat on Mar 4, 2010 13:56:27 GMT -5
Beating and abusing children is not the right way to make them become doctors and innovators. It is the perfect way to train them to be obedient employees who never ask for a raise or better working conditions. They would make perfect factory workers in the 1920s, but we've mostly replaced those jobs with computers and robotics. One reason we've had so much innovation lately is that parents haven't hit their children as much or demanded complete obedience and submission. How can people learn to think for themselves when they've been trained to not even think anything without their parent's permission? I would certainly not want to go to a doctor who had been trained in this way. How would s/he be able to evaluate my symptoms without someone telling them exactly what to do?
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Post by krwordgazer on Mar 4, 2010 14:00:56 GMT -5
In a case like Lydia's, is there anyone besides the parents who have the standing to file a wrongful death suit against the Pearls? Her sister does. I'm pretty sure the statute of limitations will not expire till a certain number of years after she grows up. How long, depends on the state. About Michael Pearl's appearance-- I had not seen a picture of him before. The only reason I can think of for him to choose to wear his beard like that (with current styles as they are), is that he's a Biblical patriarch wanna-be. It's like he's deliberately playing a part. A little power-game fantasy. Sweet. Tapati, thanks for posting the other viewpoint; I'm glad to see that his book at least makes an attempt at some balance. But that doesn't let him off the hook for blanket training and plumber's supply line (anyone in their right mind would see how potentially damaging that is as a weapon!), or any of the other outrageous things he's promoting as biblical.
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Post by WanderingOne on Mar 4, 2010 14:06:00 GMT -5
According to Salon, and Tulipgirl actually pulled the 990s and paid for access to them when I pointed it out in Salon and confirmed its true, NGJ brought in 1.8 million in 2009. Its a rapidly growing ministry. Ugh. that's so sickening. To profit off such awful practices. the idea of mass complaints to the IRS is a good one I think. It makes me so sad that the NGJ facebook page, where Pearl posted that awful note has 4,700 fans. I found two anti-NGJ groups: one with around 100 members and one with 250ish. :-( whatever Michael Pearl thinks about his training methods and the humor in them, I was NOT laughing when my parents discovered NGJ and plumber's supply line. I was NOT laughing when I was punished for some, apparently minor, infraction. I was NOT laughing when I earned more spankings for crying. nope. not laughing. Michael Pearl's chickens and children and grandchildren might be laughing. But why? fear that if they don't laugh they'll meet with plumber's supply line?
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Post by hopewell on Mar 4, 2010 14:36:19 GMT -5
...then they go to a doctor, it will be one of our Christian children that heals them with cutting edge innovation.
Sing it with me: "That'll be the day..." not likely any of those Pearl-terrorized kids will get enough education to innovate anything except a better chastizing rod.
Anyone ever read Rick Boyer's books. He runs the Learning Parent.com. He talks about "basic German Shepard" and relates all child "training" to his year or so running blood hounds for the state prison system. While I have actually gotten a good bit of help and inspiriation in very positive ways from his wife's stuff, he leaves me cold. He reminds me very much of the tone of the Pearl's literature.
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Post by hopewell on Mar 4, 2010 14:39:44 GMT -5
My other comment is on older adopted children [older at the time of adoption] Lydia and her sister came from an extremely traumatic background. That said, corporal punishment is the norm in most African cultures. Still, these children had been taken to a new culture, a new language and a new RACE, let alone to unimagined riches materially speaking. That they likely had Reactive Attachment issues is almost certain. Spanking a child like that will only fuel their self-loathing and increase their negative self-image. While I can appreciate the parents becoming desperate enough to try anything [I've been in their shoes] at some point COMMON SENSE should have kicked in. "Who Moved My Cheese" is the thing they needed--if it worked before, but doesn't work now, then the "cheese" is elsewhere--try something else.
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Post by mothersson on Mar 4, 2010 14:56:31 GMT -5
The thing is that little Lydia was beaten and subsequently killed for misspelling a word!
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Post by susan on Mar 4, 2010 16:32:41 GMT -5
I certainly hope the Pearls face legal charges for Lydia's death!
Yet I still support free speech. I just think we all need to exercise our free speech rights to speak out against those awful teachings.
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Post by gardenkatz on Mar 4, 2010 17:55:40 GMT -5
Hopefully a CASA volunteer will suggest this be done on the surviving sisters behalf....
In modern society, this whole Patriarchal Trip works out to being a really sweet deal for the men...but no so much for the women and children... I think Discovery or some other out fit needs to take these families....Duggars, Ruth's Dad, Hot Fundie Gil Bates with their respective families. and drop them all out in Southern Jordan or Israel with some sheep, some goats and some tents...just to give em an authentic taste of that oh so idyllic Patriarchal Life they espouse so mightily...
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Post by arietty on Mar 4, 2010 18:10:55 GMT -5
I want to know more about him being banned from going to England and holding conferences. Was he denied entry? Is he not permitted to travel there at all? (In the same way some prominent holocaust revisionists are banned from going to certain countries). When did this happen? I couldn't find anything about it.
I think that would make some people sit up and take notice if he is not allowed into the UK.
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jwr
Full Member
Posts: 218
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Post by jwr on Mar 4, 2010 18:29:45 GMT -5
I must say that I am at a complete loss for words. I've been out of the fundie/qf life for a dozen years now...and their casual cruelty in the name of Jesus never ceases to amaze me. Jesus said: " Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not. For such is the kingdom of Heaven." Is this verse missing from Mr. Pearl's bible??? Maybe this is his favorite verse. "suffer the children," i.e. make them suffer. Also, Pearl showed a similar calloused attitude about the beating death of 4-year-old Sean Paddock that his materials incited in 2006. Kathryn Joyce writes, "The Pearls, of course, distanced themselves from the death and other reported--sometimes self-reported--accounts of abuse, though one of Michael Pearl's sole comments to a local paper was the dismissive estimation that, of the thousands of families following their teachings, 'the chance of one of them committing a crime is pretty good'" (QF, p. 77).
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Post by philosophia on Mar 4, 2010 19:04:50 GMT -5
An interesting defense of the Pearls' material: www.squidoo.com/Pearls_2Train_Up_A_Child Children should be happy and cheerful, full of enthusiasm and creativity. If your children are fearful or anxious, you should get some counsel. I'm sorry, I'm a little slow. But how are children supposed to be happy and cheerful if their parents are repeatedly beating them with a plumber's line. And if there is one thing I've seen, is that the children of uber-fundies are rarely creative. They become very rigid, tow-the-line, color inside the line types. It's very sad when you see it happen to what would normally be a free spirited type of child. A child very quickly learns to play quietly and keep out of trouble when he is beaten with a plumbers supply line. What would you do to keep from being beaten with a supply line? I bet you would smile pleasantly.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 19:08:09 GMT -5
I want to know more about him being banned from going to England and holding conferences. Was he denied entry? Is he not permitted to travel there at all? (In the same way some prominent holocaust revisionists are banned from going to certain countries). When did this happen? I couldn't find anything about it. I think that would make some people sit up and take notice if he is not allowed into the UK. Arietty: I can't find anything definitive about this either. Mostly, I'm seeing anonymous gossip on some UK homeschooling blogs that I found. It *sounds* like there was a big public outcry about the UK tour, and the Pearls decided not to go because of their own paranoia about arrest. This was some time in 2006. I can't find anything more than that.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 19:17:01 GMT -5
More on the UK: I can't find a lot of details, but it sounds like... The homeschool groups in the UK organized really effectively over this. They contacted the police, social services, etc. in every town where the Pearls were expected to tour. A sympathetic journalist wrote articles for the Guardian. It may be that the Pearls had reason to be concerned about arrest. Hmm...
I wonder if any UK child deaths have been linked to the Pearls' teachings? There is less protection of this kind of speech there. Since the First Amendment is so sacrosanct here, it may in fact be easier to prosecute him from another country.
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Post by asteli on Mar 4, 2010 20:49:06 GMT -5
I wonder if we should move the action posts to a less open forum?
Btw, I am laughing about how much Pearl resembles the little dude in the right side bar for The God Card series.
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Post by debrand on Mar 4, 2010 20:55:27 GMT -5
The Pearls claim that their happy children are proof that their methods work.
Rebekah Anast Pearl-the oldest girl- seems to have some issues. Not only does she believe that she has prophetic dreams of a coming catastrophe but she records those dreams on a site called Dreaming Awake under the name Ruby. Very odd.
The site .7xSunday is run by the Anasts and it is strange also. Her husband quit his job as the sole provider of five children to remain home and study the bible. For support he brow beats the forum members for donations. The site encourages women to remain in abusive marriages and Rebekah comes off as an unpleasant person.
If this is the type of adults the Pearls' methods produce, I would rather not listen to them.
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jwr
Full Member
Posts: 218
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Post by jwr on Mar 4, 2010 23:10:49 GMT -5
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 23:21:55 GMT -5
I wonder if we should move the action posts to a less open forum? Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, but couldn't think how to organize this... Could someone get together a small group of email addresses of people who are interested in working on this maybe? And do it over email?
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 23:33:05 GMT -5
I read the Kathryn Joyce piece. This is definitely worrisome:
"A number of upcoming conferences will further the message, including the Christian Alliance for Orphans Summit this April, which will now focus on Haiti, promoting adoption as a “long-term response” to the crisis and the best way that “ordinary people can make a lasting difference for orphans.”"
'Cause, y'know, investing in grassroots organizations and long term infrastructure is just so passe.
I'm glad Joyce elaborated on Silsby... I've been wanting to read more about that case from someone literate in fundie discourse.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 23:38:23 GMT -5
I wonder if we should move the action posts to a less open forum? Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, but couldn't think how to organize this... Could someone get together a small group of email addresses of people who are interested in working on this maybe? And do it over email? Er, Vyckie, is it possible to start something like a private sub-board on here somewhere? If not, I'm happy to offer up myself for organizing a small email list if people wanted to PM me. I would not be a good person to head this up because I'm relatively ignorant of things like non-profit law, but I could organize an email list. What should we do?
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 4, 2010 23:42:16 GMT -5
I wonder if we should move the action posts to a less open forum? Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, but couldn't think how to organize this... Could someone get together a small group of email addresses of people who are interested in working on this maybe? And do it over email? You could start a thread in the "registered members only" forum: nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=members ~ must be logged in to read.
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Post by km on Mar 4, 2010 23:50:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing, but couldn't think how to organize this... Could someone get together a small group of email addresses of people who are interested in working on this maybe? And do it over email? You could start a thread in the "registered members only" forum: nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=members ~ must be logged in to read. Maybe, except that anyone at all can register, and as paranoid as these people sound, I suspect they're infiltrating critical groups. What about a private google group? Or is that not necessary? What do you think? My thought is that... Someone out there must have information on their books and accounting and all of it... But it's not really going to be easy to get that information on a relatively public space. Maybe we should provide a go to email address similar to what they do with police hunts: "If you have any information about No Greater Joys Ministries and would like to assist NLQ with their effort to raise awareness, please contact..." And then, in addition, either a registered member group here or a private google group? Too much?
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Post by debrand on Mar 5, 2010 8:22:14 GMT -5
I don't know if this would help but their business manager is named Mel Cohen. Maybe that name could help somehow. He seems to defend them so I don't think that he would voluntarily help but maybe know his name will come in handy.
I got his name from the Salon article, Spare the Quarter Inch Plumbing Line. He has written articles on their site before.
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Post by km on Mar 5, 2010 9:26:41 GMT -5
I just found this. Remember the recent story about the girl who was abused and starved for "stealing food" in her home? From Debi Pearl: "If your children gorge on junk, even to the point of stealing food and hiding, know this: it is better to set them free from bad habits now than for them to struggle all their lives with being overweight and sickly. A few licks will remind them that overeating hurts. It will help shape lifetime habits." www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2009/october/08/unbinding-foolishness/
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 5, 2010 9:36:26 GMT -5
Maybe, except that anyone at all can register, and as paranoid as these people sound, I suspect they're infiltrating critical groups. What about a private google group? Or is that not necessary? What do you think? My thought is that... Someone out there must have information on their books and accounting and all of it... But it's not really going to be easy to get that information on a relatively public space. Maybe we should provide a go to email address similar to what they do with police hunts: "If you have any information about No Greater Joys Ministries and would like to assist NLQ with their effort to raise awareness, please contact..." And then, in addition, either a registered member group here or a private google group? Too much? Okay ~ I have created a board ~ it is hidden from public view and it is password protected. I have made KM the moderator of the board. So ~ if you are interested in continuing this discussion regarding efforts to stop Michael Pearl and NGJ ministries ~ send a private message to KM for info. on how to access the board.
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