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Post by km on Jun 28, 2010 12:45:03 GMT -5
Oh, also... This is not a nefarious thing in itself, but a lot of QF people are oddly involved in "tape ministries." So, they'll order the sermons of "like-minded" pastors and speakers on tape (from people like Lindvall and groups like Charity). Then they'll go around giving these tapes to everyone they know as a "witness." I know my family was given like the whole of Charity's tape selection, but we never exactly listened to them...
Some other buzzwords that I know:
remnant remnant ministries God's remnant double coverings and headcoverings skirts without slits nominal/lukewarm Christians apostate Christians backbeat/voodoo beat (a Gothard thing)
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Post by km on Jun 28, 2010 12:53:47 GMT -5
I've mentioned that I was involved (a bit) with an Orthodox Presbyterian QF cult for a little while.
When they started to push headcoverings, the elders in the church announced that they were going to "study" the issue of headcoverings so that they could "give wisdom" to the congregation about it. When it was decided that women should start wearing coverings in church, everyone complied without question.
QF people speak of most of the world as "unsaved." This includes, in additon to people of other religions: Catholics, people in mainline ("apostate") churches, etc. Catholics are talked about a lot, and the Presbyterian pastor I'm speaking of here took great pleasure in talking about how they were going to hell (I heard this joked about all the time w/r/t people who left the church).
In the Reformed tradition, in particular, great pride is taken in the appearance of "intellectualizing" a lot of issues. So, they'll often announce this Very Important Study that they elders are undertaking in order to make a Very Important Decision that affects the life of the church.
And when people from Charity Ministries (who are, by the way, a bit more frighteningly legalistic than actual Amish people) say that they have been "born again/saved from the legalism of the Amish lifestyle," this is accepted without question.
Oh, and? Normal churches that are not ancient (i.e., pretty much any form of Christianity other than Catholicism and Orthdoxy) do not practice anything called "church discipline." They don't excommunicate, and pretty much anyone is welcome to attend services. Also, they don't have extremely judgmental opinions about other forms of mainstream Christianity (including Catholicism and the various mainline Protestant denominations).
Hmm... I also know of a lot of PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) churches that are into QF, but this isn't necessarily true across the board. However, any church that finds the PCA "too liberal" for its theological tastes--to the extent that it adopts the label of "Orthodox Presbyterian"--is almost certainly a QF church.
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Post by km on Jun 28, 2010 14:05:03 GMT -5
In addition to certain Bible verses being given supreme importance, a great deal of significance is attributed to mundane life events. I remember the family who took me to the Gothard seminar telling me that he told them (on video, that is) during the previous seminar that Satan would try to interfere with their time at the seminar. Usually, he said, Satan would do everything in his power to prevent a family from going for at least one night during the week. The family car wouldn't start, or it was tough to get all the kids ready, or someoen got sick... Something would happen. He alleged that families always confirmed that this was almost always the night in which they were to learn something profoundly life-changing. "Spiritual warefare," is, I think, a QF (or at least a Dominionist) buzz-phrase. In any case, QFers take it to a very literal extreme. What Gothard says about Satan's interference in their seminar plans doesn't sound like it comes from out of left field because Satan is thought to be intimately involved in our mundane, everyday lives. We've discussed just how distrustful QF families tend to be of medical personnel in general, but this takes on a new kind of hostility when it comes to mental health issues. Psychology is almost roundly condemned. Mental illness is alleged to be a symptom of spiritual warfare. You might be going through a rough time, but you didn't need a medication or psychiatrist. Instead, you needed to trust God to get you through the rough parts. I knew many women (especially women) who suffered from very deep depression who were never able to get it treated. And I think the attitude toward mental health has something to do with a QF attitude that kind of seems oriented toward suffering. Suffering is glorified. It shows that you've truly been crucified with Christ. I was all the time hearing people say things like, "I knew that [so-and-so outcome] would have been too easy. It would've made me too easily happy, and God was not going to let me get away with that." Or, when something awful happens: "I knew I'd been too complacent for a while. It doesn't surprise me that God needed to shake things up." Or, "I know that the spiritual rewards for following [this life plan that I don't want] in order to stay true to my calling will be so much greater than the worldly pleasure I would otherwise have." I noticed this infuriating tendency for the One Thing that the individual wanted to do least in the world to become the person's "calling." And I was constantly thinking, "Why are people only called to misery?" I actually heard some teenagers go, "Those missionaries who were kidnapped and tortured in Afghanistan were such a disgrace to the Lord. Hadn't they already been crucified with Christ? Didn't they know that missionaries must be willing to die? " That seemed rather...lacking in compassion. I found some of the men to say extremely off-putting things pretty often. When this QF family was visiting our family, we watched an NPR concert performance of the music from the musical, Les Miserables. During the song in which Eponine dies, the father said, "Well, she just went to hell." He seemed to take pleasure in saying sadistic things like this.
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Post by Ex-Adriel on Jun 28, 2010 22:35:16 GMT -5
Either that phrase and what you're describing isn't limited to the Gothard brand of QF churches, or I was in them and didn't know it.
Spiritual warfare encompassed our whole life. Demons were real, Satan actively hunted down people and tormented them, and Jesus let him, so you would learn how much he suffered to save your sorry ass. I lived in the knowledge that visiting my friends exposed me to spiritual contamination if they owned a ouiji board or a tarot deck or even something as simple as a KISS poster or a troll doll. Even barbies were suspect, as they often contained spirits of promiscuity. Even if I never saw them, I agonized over the chance that they may be hiding in a closet, leaching evil into my unprotected soul. Life was a minefield to be carefully navigated and prayed over, repenting for any contact you may have made with the darkness. Only if you were vigilent in your prayers would God redeem you from your constant corruption. Even then, awful things could happen.
I was actually present for my little brother's exorcism when he was around 7 or 8 years old. It remains to this day one of the most scarring events of my childhood. He had ADHD, not demons, but we didn't know that then - he was simply posessed by a demon of perversity and insubordination. All this was his and our rightful punishment for adopting him = he was cursed with the sins of his real forefathers and his unmarried teen mother who was undoubtedly demon-ridden herself, and had passed them on to her child.
Spiritual warfare was our reality.
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Post by km on Jun 29, 2010 12:03:55 GMT -5
I was actually present for my little brother's exorcism when he was around 7 or 8 years old. It remains to this day one of the most scarring events of my childhood. He had ADHD, not demons, but we didn't know that then - he was simply posessed by a demon of perversity and insubordination. All this was his and our rightful punishment for adopting him = he was cursed with the sins of his real forefathers and his unmarried teen mother who was undoubtedly demon-ridden herself, and had passed them on to her child. That's horrifying. I cannot imagine doing that to a small child. As scarring as it was for you, I can only imagine how it must have affected your brother. I hope he was later able to come to terms with ADHD with the help of responsible doctors. Ugh... I think such things should be against the law when it comes to children. By the way, you are probably right that it's not limited to QF, but I suspect that it's mostly limited to Dominionism. In addition, I know of a few African-American and Spanish-language churches (mostly Pentecostal Holiness, Assemblies of God, etc.) that practice exorcism but are not necessarily coming from a Dominionist political perspective. But... Having been to such churches as a child with some regularity, I never saw this kind of thing done to a child. So, I don't want to blame charismatic religious practice as a whole, but I certainly worry when it is used as a justification for the abuse of children.
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Post by Ex-Adriel on Jun 29, 2010 18:46:24 GMT -5
He's been badly affected by the whole thing. I have a lot of guilt about that, but there's nothing I can do. It got to the point where escape was necessary, and I wasn't able to take my brothers with me when I went.
I regret that every day of my life, but I honestly can't think of any way I could have done better.
Like I said - there's a lot of guilt involved with me and my brothers.
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