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Post by janedoe on Mar 8, 2010 11:52:10 GMT -5
Anyhoo,
Autumn,
I am a homeschooler-unschooler , and I wouldn't recommend homeschooling for everyone, it has it's upsides, it sure has it's downsides and it is A LOT OF TIME/WORK.
But there are Numerous, currics one can use, that are Secular, in fact, where I live we have FAR more secular home schooler's than religious. It really perturbs me how much these fundies have monopolize the whole image of home school because it IS a very FALSE image, they are a minority in my state, maybe it depends on the state, they may Scream the loudest but they are a minority. I find too that like church denominations they are 'split' within the home-school community, tends to be somewhat factious, but any who may be Interested in Home school,
look up eclectic, un-schooler's [it's NOT what many think], it is a Very diverse community--the groups I know tend to be somewhat to the left-liberal-eco minded. Hardly, conservative and many are pagan, wiccan, so, yea, this whole fundie 'image' of homeschool as being THE HOMESCHOOL,
kind of pisses me off. AT them, not at the public, and at Media [the political plays this, a lot for their own corrupt agendas, good books, "Friendly Fascism" by Bertram Gross and Democracy for a Few, Michael Parenti, I strongly suggest any Critical Thinking American to read them, especially if you are confronting Patriarchy on a Systematic Level.
Anyhooo, ,
So I'm reading OT law [Exodus] right now, and I see some things I thought I'd mention here, about the Rod,
this is Interesting [if you really take apart the judgments, they are Human Right laws, Human Rights, and oh, it gets better, it really does, exciting in fact--and I'm seeing more and more how these have been So misinterpreted, even literally]
but, it says, Exodus 21:20, now this was in regards to servants, who had in the hierarchy of things, though they were considered Family [if you really study the entire EVED laws in Judaism] lesser in rank/than children, but their Human LIFE/RIGHTS value was the Same in God's eyes, in other words, there was no license to 'abuse' or 'mistreat' a servant or a child or a woman, and any Abuse, was to be punished, including abuse of animals [or animals killing a human life].
"And if a man smite his servant or his maid, with a ROD, and he die under his hand, he shall be Surely punished."
This was God's Command, now this was in regards to slaves....servants, in Eved laws [what they call Eved laws] there were strict rules on the treatment of slaves, they were yes, to obey their masters, BUT, here's where it gets interesting,
it also says, same law, that if one smites a servant/slave and knocks their Tooth out, that slave is then free, same with eye, so, you have two contraries there, one could use a Rod to punish a slave but on the other hand if one hit a slave and hurt an eye, hand, tooth, that slave was then to be set Free, under GOD'S COMMAND, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, etc., therefore Rod was not a license to beat someone, in fact God protected Moses, who had killed a master/man for beating a Jewish slave unmercifully, so if you look at the ENTIRE picture, taking every word, not just one literally, it's Obvious that rod is symbolic for chastisement, not beating, not breaking legs, and all that other abusive garbage,
not only that, for children this would be MORE so because God was Furious with Israel in Malachi for the 'garment of violence'. He said the point was to raise Godly children, children who loved, not feared, not broken, not sociopath, not cruel, not critical, not untrusting....there can be no love when suspicion reigns.
No love no life.
I find interesting too, where in Exodus 24-25, it says "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe"
Jesus takes it Farther, when He brings this up, He says, not only that but if you call your brother a fool, you're in danger of hell fire.
I always wondered why 'fool', but in reading the entire chapters [slowly] of Exodus 20-23 it becomes clear to me, that the core of the entire 'judgments' was Human Rights, Love thy neighbor As thyself, how You would want to be treated,
be they mother father, wife, husband, neighbor, servant [or worker] or children, etc.,
so many [and I believed this too] say that the words of Jesus cancels out the tooth for tooth, but that isn't what Jesus is saying [we are not to take vengeance no but its not this oh well it don't matter now if you knock out a tooth, we aren't under OT law anymore, not what Jesus meant by that, you knock out a tooth or abuse physically, God will Avenge it, He says so],
but it goes more to 'if you Abuse Verbally', you're in danger of hell fire, meaning, that it's not just abusing and killing the body, that God will avenge, it's abusing and killing the Soul, Spirit, of a human being. God will avenge that too,
Every human being is Valuable and Precious to God, that is what the entire OT laws in Exodus are saying, and that while yes, we are sinners and live in a fallen world, and slavery then was normalized through out the entire world in that region, at least, that Did not mean that God designed it that way NOR did God agree with it,
God simply says, to those who have ears let them hear, every life, is Precious to me, treat it with respect/in Fear of ME, respect their life/human rights,
or answer to Me.
And I never truly saw this in the Bible before, but it's there, the message is very clear, God giver of all life--in no way is condoning or tolerant of the abuse of that life, no matter Whose life--the ONLY exception is where it says in Exodus, in regards to 'killing', it's not 'do not murder' its do not KILL, that leaves a whole wide range of things, from killing the earth, animals [just bloody killing for sport, etc] to killing the souls of people, women and children included, but the only exception is if God delivers someone into the hands to be killed and it's clear that He is referring to extreme cases. [like state punishment, etc but That's if the state/tribe/society is Obeying and living according to God's rules, God says later in OT that if the society is NOT living according to God's rules/which are love, human rights, then HE removes that immunity and will allow the 'destroyer' or 'enemies' to take over and plunder, etc],
anyhoow, Jesus saying, it's not just tooth for tooth, I'm telling you if you Verbally assault/abuse someone, YOU'RE accountable, that LIFE means something to ME, the Lord God, that Person has Value to ME,
when you Think about it, it's really grave and serious, puts things on a whole different light. Like violence verbal abuse Kills, just like smiting, beating with a rod, etc., IF GOD cares about Verbal Abuse, and especially to a Child [where Jesus says, if you OFFEND one of these little ones who Believe in me],
how much MORE, IS GOD GOING TO DESTROY THOSE WHO DEFILE HIS NAME/TAKING HIS NAME IN VAIN, DEFILING GOD'S TEMPLE, AND SAYING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG,
WITH USING A ROD TO BEAT A CHILD?
Oh, this is some Serious Business with God, if calling a child a Fool makes one in danger of HELL FIRE,
imagine, what beating a child with a Rod and especially provoking to WRATH, God says, DO NOT, PROVOKE YOUR CHILDREN TO WRATH,
but bring them up in the Admonishing and Nurturing in the Lord,
that's a two scales there, Weigh the Scales God says JUSTLY,
the Punishment of unjust scales, was serious business with God, He destroyed those leaders/priests who did just this--
that these children were beaten to Death, is HUGE, like Punishment Wrath of God HUGE, the Pearls [and many like them] had Seriously better get repentant on this because we're talking [if one is going to refer to God's Holy Word] hell fire here, for the false teachings of telling people to Beat children with a Rod, and then Providing the Rod for them? And to break a lamb's legs? You know beating and mistreating ANIMALS in OT was Punishable,
by God, HE has Zero Tolerance for the destruction, Willful, destruction of Life, abuse, even the Land, did you know that in OT God would punish societies for Denying the LAND mind you, the LAND their sabbath rests, even the Earth was entitled by God to have her rest, so she could replenish her strength to feed/nurture us,
what Part of God respecting LIFE and HIS LOVE for His creation, do people NOT get? So I will say, to the Pearls, and those like them,
the Lord Rebuke you, for your doctrine of Demons, the Body of Christ NEEDS to step up and be BOLD, BE OF 'GOOD COURAGE' and Rebuke these false teachers,
because they are BLASPHEMING GOD AND CAUSING THE UNBELIEVER TO BLASPHEME HIS HOLY NAME.
That, if one is a Believer, is SERIOUS, very Serious,
God destroyed and left only a tiny Remnant, for this VERY THING, in OT, Israel and Judah,
oh America [Christians]pay heed, seriously pay heed---we all sin, this is not about demanding perfection,
but we seriously, need to be Bold and declare the Truth, counting the Cost [I'm sure I'll be slammed for this, I always am, but you know the Enemy always comes in to steal the seed from the hearts] but you know,
I've made my resolve, I am standing and standing Firm, God does Not condone or demand or request Child Abuse of ANY KIND, IN ANY SHAPE NOR FORM, it is So contrary to HIS nature, and if we as a Society, not just individuals because there IS serious neglect and abuse of children through poverty/exploitation in THIS country, in tolerance to, etc., if we don't repent, if individuals don't repent,
we're in trouble. He'll remove the hedge of protection, and deliver us to our enemies [spiritual and physical] because HE is Justice, He will avenge, the deaths of these children, the harms of abuse to women, children, neighbors and other nations under policies that have Distorted God's word,
you Don't blaspheme God and get by with it, God is not mocked, the Perversion, of the Gospel, of God's Word,
will be punished. The Child Abuse, will be punished--He is slow to anger, willing that all reconcile with Him and learn to do Right, to Love, to NOT harm, to NOT abuse, to Respect Life and I'm not talking pro-life here, I'm talking, respecting LIFE, HUMAN RIGHTS, because we are Made in HIS image,
to Beat/hurt a Child, is to BEAT JESUS CHRIST.
If you do it to the least of these He says, you Do it, unto ME.
To Christians, take Heed...
Sincerely,
Jane
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Post by janedoe on Mar 8, 2010 12:10:53 GMT -5
On the issue of corporal punishment and God's using affliction, etc.,
I prayed about this, all weekend, and this came to me--Justice, why God allows affliction, to chastise, read Job, it goes into this, anyhow, in God's laws, teaching Humanity how to weigh the scales, to do Just, to do Right, taking this down to the Micro government of family, order, etc.,
spare the rod, spoil the child--do not provoke your children to wrath but bring them up in the admonishing and nurturing of the Lord [to Fathers He said this to, why not mothers, maybe because Then it was fathers who were typically the 'abusers], anyway,
so I asked God, ok well if you don't discipline you get abusive teens and young adults/maybe sociopaths but if you do discipline too harshly you get the same,
and that's just it...the Scales, it's NOT just the 'method' used in raising children,
what God looks at, is the FRUIT, that comes, from those Methods...so like,,
method: beat child with a rod, not being example, not teaching love, patience-love/God is patient kind slow to anger, not easily provoked, etc, not irritable, kindly instructing us, only chastisement as a LAST RESORT WHEN ALL OTHER METHODS HAVE FAILED, if any read the Entire Bible and not just pieces here and there, but if one beats a child with a Rod be it instrument or Words/verbal abuse or Sexual--passing them through the fire, etc.
=
fruit: adult that is abusive, critical, mean, unforgiving, broken, non-trusting, relationships broken, entire societies broken, etc
method: neglect, no discipline, no 'restraining child' when doing evil, spoiling child, not teaching child respect, etc., no teaching child to respect boundaries including their own God given rights/to boundaries, etc., so forth
=
fruit: adult that is abusive [passive aggressive/cold/unaffectionate] entitlement mentality, selfish, indifferent, apathetic, insensitive, etc. societies that are self indulgent, criminal entitlement, selfish-greed [causing harm to other nations as a result of], violence increases, etc, explains America today,
the Scales...
to those who have ears, let them hear
Wisdom--there is a dire lack of Wisdom, today. Wisdom differs from Knowledge, wisdom in judgments, the scales, and interestingly, it begins, in the micro as well as the macro, generational, we reap what we sow, like a garden,
you sow poison seed you reap poison seed. you sow good life seed/love seed you reap good life/love seed, with Freedom comes RESPONSIBILITY, STEWARDSHIP,
it's not just the 'methods' and applications,
what we Need to look at, individually, communal and Society and the World, is what are the fruits, THAT RESULT, in our sowing? And these fruits are generational...
Sincerely,
Jane
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davel
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by davel on Mar 10, 2010 16:32:54 GMT -5
When I think of a shepard, I think of those cliche National Geographic pictures of a boy (12ish?) in the Middle East/Africa, toting around an AK-47. That is the modern day shepard's rod. Hi all, I've been lurking for a while and finally joined up. I actually raise sheep on the side. Shepherds still use the 'crook'; it's used to catch an individual sheep around the neck. Every sheep needs to get caught once in a while for things like shots, de-worming, and hoof trimming. In large herds you would funnel the whole herd through a chute, but in small herds you just walk out and grab'em with a crook. My jaw just about hit the floor when someone mentioned breaking a lamb's legs. It's a staggeringly cruel and stupid idea- there are so many things wrong with it it's hard to keep track. To keep sheep from wandering, you use a fence, or failing that, a dog. If you had to hobble a lamb for some reason you can just tie two of its feet together - it's not only more humane but a lot more easily reversible! Besides which, if you were willing to carry the thing around on your shoulders all the time, you wouldn't have to break its legs to keep it from getting away. Good luck using that trick in a flock with a couple hundred sheep, though. The idea of "obedient" sheep is just bizarre, as well. Sheep may be conditioned to get them used to being handled, to get them used to a dog, or to follow the sound of a feed bucket, but I can't say I've ever heard of actually teaching a sheep commands, so there's nothing to 'obey'. Obedience is for sheepdogs, not the actual sheep. As a matter of fact the whole shepherd metaphor in Christianity is a little strange, if you think about it. A shepherd does not guide and protect his flock out of selfless love for his sheep. He does it so he can exploit the sheep economically - so he can shear their fleece and eat them and their young.
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Post by sisof9 on Mar 16, 2010 15:15:11 GMT -5
i just got this from NGJ - Dear NGJ Supporter, NGJ and the Pearls come to you requesting your prayers. On Saturday February 6, 2010 in Paradise, CA, a tragedy occurred. Lydia Schatz, a 7-year-old girl died. The Paradise Post reported, “Ridge parents Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz are charged with murder and torture following the death of 7-year-old Lydia Schatz and the hospitalization of 11-year-old Zariah Schatz.” Subsequently, many false accusations have been made about NGJ and the Pearls. (Read the Official Statement from NGJ.) This Thursday March 18, 2010, Michael Pearl will be interviewed live on CBS’s The Early Show and given the chance to answer the critics. The Show airs from 7:00 – 8:00 am EST and the interview will be at approximately 7:30 am. Please pray for Michael as he prays and prepares for this interview that God will give him clarity of mind and spirit to answer wisely all the questions that are put to him. Also pray that the report and the interviewer will be honest and fair. Inform your family, friends, and fellow believers and encourage them to pray also. Thank you in advance for your diligence in prayer and support. Your fellow servants in the Lord Jesus Christ, — The NGJ Staff It SOUNDS like they admit it is a tragedy... i wonder if mr. pearl will be "laughing" on the interview...
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