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Post by krwordgazer on Dec 25, 2009 18:43:54 GMT -5
*passes around fudge and peppermint mochas*
I'm so glad this is a place where people can share triumph and pain and joy and disgust and feel truly heard, on Christmas or any day. Love to all of you.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Dec 25, 2009 19:11:45 GMT -5
*passes around fudge and peppermint mochas* I'm so glad this is a place where people can share triumph and pain and joy and disgust and feel truly heard, on Christmas or any day. Love to all of you. Hey KR ~ fudge and peppermint mochas!!! You make Christmas splendid for sure. You put me in a partyin' mood ~ so: NLQ Christmas party tonite in the chat room ~ I'll be there at 9:30 p.m. central time. nlq.gixawchat.comIf you haven't been in the chat room for a party ~ well, you just have to check it out. Who knows what sort of fun we'll dream up ~ we've done Truth or Dare, shared pics so everyone knows who looks like what (!), posted our fav videos ... and we always pass out plenty of virtual snacks, pizza, wine, beer ... LOL Hope you can make it
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Post by krwordgazer on Dec 25, 2009 22:41:03 GMT -5
I'd love to party in the chatroom, but I have houseguests. Have a wonderful time, everybody!
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Post by rosiegirl on Dec 26, 2009 0:30:10 GMT -5
I dont celebrate Christmas; I havent for several years. Actually, when the season comes around, I celebrate the traditional festival Yule, which is where all of the Christmas festivities originally came from, with some well known changes.
Actually, I find it surprising that many Christians do celebrate Christmas, for the following reason:
Jeremiah 10:1-4:
"Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
"Thus saith the Lord, Learn NOT the way of the heathen, and be NOT dismayed at the signs of heaven (the queen of heaven, Isis, worshiped by the heathen), for the heathen are dismayed at them. "For the customs of the people are futile: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
Funny, no one wants to believe that Christmas is a Pagan holiday and "wrong" in the eyes of the Lord and the Bible, BUT everyone wants to believe that Homosexuality, Abortion, and etc are wrong.
dont get me wrong, I dont care either way, but what people choose to believe and not believe, carefully cherry picking what should apply to their daily lives, really makes me wonder sometimes.
So when people ask me how I can be happy if I dont celebrate christmas, I carefully remind them that I celebrate Yule; the progenitor of Christmas.
Edit: Let me also state that I'm not Christian and havent been for years, but knowing that verse and knowing where Christmas came from, it always made me wonder.
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Post by krwordgazer on Dec 26, 2009 14:50:30 GMT -5
I dont celebrate Christmas; I havent for several years. Actually, when the season comes around, I celebrate the traditional festival Yule, which is where all of the Christmas festivities originally came from, with some well known changes. Actually, I find it surprising that many Christians do celebrate Christmas, for the following reason: Jeremiah 10:1-4: "Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn NOT the way of the heathen, and be NOT dismayed at the signs of heaven (the queen of heaven, Isis, worshiped by the heathen), for the heathen are dismayed at them. "For the customs of the people are futile: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." Funny, no one wants to believe that Christmas is a Pagan holiday and "wrong" in the eyes of the Lord and the Bible, BUT everyone wants to believe that Homosexuality, Abortion, and etc are wrong. dont get me wrong, I dont care either way, but what people choose to believe and not believe, carefully cherry picking what should apply to their daily lives, really makes me wonder sometimes. So when people ask me how I can be happy if I dont celebrate christmas, I carefully remind them that I celebrate Yule; the progenitor of Christmas. Edit: Let me also state that I'm not Christian and havent been for years, but knowing that verse and knowing where Christmas came from, it always made me wonder. Welcome to the forum, Rosiegirl! I'd like to answer your question, as a Christian who celebrates Christmas (I think the Bible is less clear on abortion and homosexuality than many Christians think it is, btw). The context of Jeremiah 10 is the idol-worship of the nations. God is not objecting to the pagans "cutting a tree out of the forest" and decorating it-- He is objecting to them turning it into an idol and worshipping it. Verse 5, continuing from where you started, says, "Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm, nor can they do any good." The reason God objects to the worship of idols is that worshipping a decorated piece of wood is useless. A piece of wood is only a piece of wood. Even so, a Christmas tree is only a tree, and a Yule log is only a log. God is saying, "don't bow down and worship a piece of wood," not "don't have anything to do with cutting and decorating a piece of wood." When the Roman Catholic Church sought to Christianize Europe, they did not seek to overthrow the pagan practices because they understood that there was neither good nor harm in things like the British Yule logs, holly and mistletoe, nor in the German practice of cutting down pine trees and decorating them. The Church set its holidays at the same time as the pagan ones, to make it easy and natural to simply use the same natural things (which Christians would say are all part of God's creation) to worship what Christians believe is the true God. Whether the Catholic church should have Christianized Europe is another matter which is disputed-- but it was no violation of the principles of Christianity for them to allow the incorporation of pagan items, so long as the pagan items were not worshiped as idols. This is not "cherry picking" out of the Bible, but reading the Bible in light of its literary and historical context, and finding its actual principles and teachings. I hope you had a very happy Yule and that the return of the light brings you joy.
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Post by madame on Dec 26, 2009 16:45:39 GMT -5
Vyckie, I actually like the tradition of mailing a nativity to a family. It doesn't have to be a nativity, I guess you could send ornaments for the tree or cards with explanations of Christmas traditions, whatever! It seems like so much fun and so meaningful!
I have struggled with Christmas this year. I "accidentally" invited all my in-laws (I mentioned coming up to our area over Christmas and staying with us if they wanted to). When BIL called me two weeks before Christmas, I started dreading the family reunion and what it might mean. Rants from the FIL and long devotions.
It was ok. I stood my ground with my husband, and told him I didn't want his dad leading any devotion. As it turned out, we didn't have a devotion at all. Our Christmas was all about food and presents. Nice, for a change.
Happy new year!
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Post by tapati on Dec 26, 2009 18:11:46 GMT -5
When I was in 1st grade we were asked to name Christmas carols. My family didn't really play or sing them at Christmas so I watched as the other kids rattled off a bunch of titles. I noticed they all had something to do with religion, so I raised my hand. The teacher called on me and I proudly added "Devil Woman" by Marty Robbins to the list. She had a funny look on her face. I didn't understand what I'd done wrong or why she refused to add it to the list on the board!
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Post by margybargy on Dec 26, 2009 19:10:40 GMT -5
Happy Holidays, All! DD got sick and the doc advised us not to travel, especially to the cold. But it all worked great. Some friends came down. We had some neighbors over, one was a guy who speaks no English. We all managed to communicate though.
We grilled Holiday dinner. That's how I get Mr. Bargy to help with the cooking. I'm an evil genius.
Mr. Bargy and I avoided the tense holiday religious debate. I pointed out that December 25 is actually Saturnalia. That almost got us started.
Anyhoo, it was a very fine holiday. Hope all of you enjoyed the day. Even if it wasn't what you expected. As a wise woman already pointed out, booze helps.
And Calulu, congrats on getting rid of the plague family. May they be hit with a clue stick and suddenly become reasonable people. I know it's far-fetched but anything can happen.
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Post by justflyingin on Dec 27, 2009 9:46:13 GMT -5
Yeah... I was just thinking that this is probably the most depressed I've been since I was alone in Tennessee. Christmas was a HUGE deal to us. It was the best and worst time of year. I LOVED the holiday, but I hated the whole dad factor. I think right now I'd give anything to have a Christmas, though. Everyone I know is out celebrating right now, texting me and asking me to join them, but it wouldn't be fun for me. In my head, if I can't have my family for Christmas, I don't want to try and fit into anyone else's. So here I've sat, for 3 days, alone and pretty freakin sad. I'm not sure I understand, Angel. As life goes along, since you are the oldest, you have to be extremely flexible. For you, you leave home first, learn to "be on your own" first and have to be able to change and bend with the changing family patterns. If your friends invited you over, why not go? Why can't traditions change a bit? As you grow older and each one of the kids goes off on his/her own, things will continue to change. You have to learn to adapt to those changes. Be flexible. You can't "go back" to those times of just warm, family times. They are memories. They may be better as memories anyway, than they were in real time. I'm writing this well aware that my third child (out of 5) will be leaving home next year. I already miss her. Sniff sniff. But I have to change with the times/family dynamics. It does no good to mourn that it isn't "like it used to be". But, after this coming week of, what I hope to be a bit more rest than normal, things will return more or less to a regular routine. I'll be glad to have it.
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Post by ashmeadskernal on Dec 27, 2009 9:48:17 GMT -5
I spent my Christmas morning in Labor and Delivery, strapped to the baby monitors and in lots of pain and nausea. I spent Christmas afternoon at home asleep. I spent Christmas dinner looking at the food, but not eating very much of it, because I felt so crappy. Hubby traditionally cooks all of the holiday meals, and the guests on his side of the family traditionally help.
But my two toddlers enjoyed opening their presents, one at a time. The best ones are always the 99 cent impulse items. And DH's parents and grandparents and aunt, uncle, nephew came over and had a good time.
I like DH's family. They are nice and helpful and are well versed in how to carry on a polite and interesting conversation that has just the proper amount of give and take, and lack of needing to look perfect/one-upmanship. My side of the family, on the other hand... don't usually lift a finger to help unless asked, and the Christmas devotion MUST be read, and then the day long religious and political diatribe/debate... with the undertones of "my view of the world is the only true way to look at the world" that is just so tiresome. I was glad that they weren't there, and that they had a good time without me, and that I didn't have to explain, yet again, to deaf ears, how most of the Christians in the world really don't believe in the pre-millenial version of the rapture, or topics of that nature.
Calulu, it sounds like you had a good Christmas. Here's some virtual popcorn for everyone... Hope everybody had a good day, no matter what your reason for celebration, even when mixed with a little sadness. Even a wake can be filled with both sadness and joy, and ribald jokes about memories past.
Note to self: laugh at self more. Because life is just too serious a business to take that seriously.
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Post by anatheist on Dec 27, 2009 21:42:29 GMT -5
I was very happy to not have to celebrate Christmas at all this year. I invited my parents to visit my new house about a month earlier so that traveling for Christmas would be very impractical- it's about the worst possible time to have a flight anyway.
Even as a child, I've never been very interested in holidays or traditions. The one tradition that was important to me then is completely distasteful to me now- I stayed up until midnight on Christmas eve to put the baby Jesus in the Nativity scene. In general thought, I'm not tradition oriented and don't celebrate any holidays.
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Post by krwordgazer on Dec 27, 2009 22:56:31 GMT -5
I spent my Christmas morning in Labor and Delivery, strapped to the baby monitors and in lots of pain and nausea. I spent Christmas afternoon at home asleep. I spent Christmas dinner looking at the food, but not eating very much of it, because I felt so crappy. Hubby traditionally cooks all of the holiday meals, and the guests on his side of the family traditionally help. Ashmeadskernal, are you ok? Is the baby ok?
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Post by ashmeadskernal on Dec 28, 2009 14:51:04 GMT -5
I'm okay, baby's okay. Not great, but much better than I was. At least I can eat again. Only 3 more weeks to go before birth, in theory at least.
atheistBB, I'm not very tradition oriented either. I'm happy with merely buying candy to have ready for Halloween trick or treaters and that's it. I'm happy not to have a Christmas tree, or stockings, or presents, or a Nativity scene, or a big fancy dinner, or children who skip their naps and then collapse into a sobbing heap right before bedtime. But, the kids like the most general of traditions. And it's fun to have dinner with relatives.
I have no problem celebrating a pagan holiday called Christmas that really truly has nothing to do with Christ, while not a believer. I have no problem with erecting a fertility symbol tree in my living room, topped with either a glistening star so reminiscent of... something wet and glistening, or an angel, who is invariably female with the tree top rammed up her skirt. It makes me laugh. Just as obvious sun god references in the Christmas story liturgies make me laugh. Candles, all aglow - Sun god AND fertility there. <giggle>. And sheep. Hoo boy, mind in the gutter I've got. But, have fun with it, this Saturnalia season.
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Post by arietty on Dec 28, 2009 19:57:42 GMT -5
I'm not keen on big traditions. I find they become a heavy burden after a while, even if it's only the children growing up and feeling Christmas isn't the same because they aren't immersed in those traditions. I like to be flexible with everything. Though Vyckie's nativity tradition is lovely I know if it was me I would get suddenly totally burned out on it one year and then everyone would be horrified that I wasn't continuing it.
So nowadays I ask the kids what they want to do, what food they want etc.. a few things we used to do the older ones said they hated so we just stopped doing them. We don't even have the same ornaments every year, we usually buy a whole bunch of new tacky ones and chuck the old ones out!
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Post by MoonlitNight on Dec 28, 2009 21:25:02 GMT -5
Actually, I miss my family's old Christmas traditions now that they're not happening so much anymore. You see, now I live downtown and my parents live on the outskirts of town (overall very good) so I miss out on a lot of the parts of Christmas that I enjoyed, and the ones that are left I don't enjoy so much.
We used to go to a carol-singing concert with a friend of my mother's. The friend is now dead and my mother doesn't like caroling enough to keep going. I didn't care for the evangelizing parts of the concert (Salvation-Army-run), but I loved the singing.
I miss the Christmas baking, because that was one of the most pleasant times I got to spend with my very stressful and stressed mother back when I was living with her.
I miss trimming the tree and decorating the house -- the history of the ornaments and the feeling of getting ready for something special.
I miss Christmas breakfast with waffles, which were always a treat.
I miss the yard full of trees and snow, but that's partly the climate change at work....
I miss the way that we'd actually build up anticipation for Christmas, instead of it being a chore to find presents and then a boring day eating snacks while my parents worry at and lecture me and my sister hides from that treatment because she is allergic to my mother (almost literally) and then a big boring dinner that's exactly the same as every other turkey dinner before and after.
I wonder if I should declare myself insane and try to do Christmas some year for everyone? Because most of what I love was in the buildup -- back when it wasn't so rushed -- and much of what I dislike is in the traditional parts that are left. The trouble is that then I'd either have to do it every year forever after, or I'd never be allowed to forget everything I did wrong!
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Post by krwordgazer on Dec 29, 2009 2:04:58 GMT -5
I have no problem celebrating a pagan holiday called Christmas that really truly has nothing to do with Christ, while not a believer. I have no problem with erecting a fertility symbol tree in my living room, topped with either a glistening star so reminiscent of... something wet and glistening, or an angel, who is invariably female with the tree top rammed up her skirt. It makes me laugh. Just as obvious sun god references in the Christmas story liturgies make me laugh. Candles, all aglow - Sun god AND fertility there. <giggle>. And sheep. Hoo boy, mind in the gutter I've got. But, have fun with it, this Saturnalia season. You have fun, then. But it's just a tree, and they're just candles. They symbolize for you what you want them to symbolize. They symbolize for me what I want them to symbolize. Or they symbolize nothing, for the person who doesn't see them as symbolizing anything. The holiday can have nothing to do with Christ, or everything to do with Christ. It's up to the person celebrating. You have your fun, and I'll have mine.
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Post by ashmeadskernal on Dec 29, 2009 10:56:16 GMT -5
I have no problem celebrating a pagan holiday called Christmas that really truly has nothing to do with Christ, while not a believer. I have no problem with erecting a fertility symbol tree in my living room, topped with either a glistening star so reminiscent of... something wet and glistening, or an angel, who is invariably female with the tree top rammed up her skirt. It makes me laugh. Just as obvious sun god references in the Christmas story liturgies make me laugh. Candles, all aglow - Sun god AND fertility there. <giggle>. And sheep. Hoo boy, mind in the gutter I've got. But, have fun with it, this Saturnalia season. You have fun, then. But it's just a tree, and they're just candles. They symbolize for you what you want them to symbolize. They symbolize for me what I want them to symbolize. Or they symbolize nothing, for the person who doesn't see them as symbolizing anything. The holiday can have nothing to do with Christ, or everything to do with Christ. It's up to the person celebrating. You have your fun, and I'll have mine. Exactly! I could have made the tree symbolize Patriarchy. Or connection with nature. Or the cedars of Lebanon with snow on them when Jesus was born. When the meaning behind a particular tradition is no longer relevant, often it is either time to change the tradition to something more meaningful, or to change the meaning behind the tradition. I'm glad you have fun, and that your traditions are meaningful for you, as my traditions are meaningful for me.
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Post by margybargy on Dec 29, 2009 15:00:24 GMT -5
or an angel, who is invariably female with the tree top rammed up her skirt. It makes me laugh. lol. Hmmm...never thought of it like that. Hilarious. I'm not big on traditions either. I'm big on doing fun stuff, not chorey stuff I feel obligated to do. In fact, I'm very cautious about doing things just because I feel obligated. We don't usually do a tree because we usually travel. But we did this year because dd is old enough to enjoy it. I did a tropical theme with fish ornaments and fire coral garland. It's cute. Mr. Bargy did a beautiful job decorating the house with lights. He enjoyed doing it, too. And the neighbors liked it. Our tree topper is an angel fish with a tree branch rammed up his dorsal area. Oh my. Maybe next year, I'll do a conch shell.
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Post by jemand on Dec 29, 2009 21:51:01 GMT -5
, while not a believer. I have no problem with erecting a fertility symbol tree in my living room, topped with either a glistening star so reminiscent of... something wet and glistening, or an angel, who is invariably female with the tree top rammed up her skirt. I LOVED this. Not sure I'll ever look at christmas trees the same ever again lol!
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