Post by lvgdandppl on Jul 2, 2010 19:09:32 GMT -5
Hi,
I'm new to posting here, but I've been lurking for several months. I think I've read the entire blog, and I check almost daily to see if there are any updates.
I'm fascinated by the subject of "qivering," because there was a mild case of that thinking going through our church. I would say that it's pretty much been weeded out by now. I think that most of those who were tending toward that way of thinking have realized that the number of children a couple decides to have is a personal lifestyle choice between the husband and the wife, and not a Christian mandate. I think many of us in my church are starting to realize the great freedom we have in Christ, that we have individual personalities, gifts, talents, and life choices. The individuality is starting to shine more, and our church is a better place to fellowship because of that.
I would like to thank NLQ authors for sharing your individual stories, though each person's story is unique, there is a similar theme of religious oppression in each one. Since the beginning of my experience as a Christian I have been attracted to similarly oppressive groups.
In my teen years I was part of a group known as The Foundation of Human Understanding. This was a very oppressive group in which the leader stressed an emotionless existence. He often told his followers to "let it go like water off a ducks back."
After I snapped out of it with that group, the next group I fell for was the Pentecostals. This group was more mainstream, but again they seemed to think they were special compared to other Christians because of their unique filling of the Holy Spirit exhibited by prophecies, tongues, and words of wisdom, among others. I didn't do well in this crowd, because I couldn't speak in tongues, and I couldn't decipher what God was saying to other people. Nevertheless, the us verses them mentality appealed to me. It was us "Spirit filled" Christians against the demon possessed world, even against the non-spirit-filled Christians.
I got tired of that mentality after a while, and my husband and I found a nice non-denominational small family orientated church. [Enter the church I attend now.] Within the first few weeks attending this church I was asked if my husband and I planned to have more children. We had one toddler at the time. My answer was a quick "no." It wasn't because I didn't want more children, because I did, but because I didn't want to have any more while I was a working mom. It was much too stressful to raise more children, and work outside of the home at the same time. I didn't think much of the question, but months later I asked that same person what she used for birth control. Since I was nervous about getting pregnant again, I was seeking out some good advice for birth control. Artificial hormones don't work well in my body, and my husband and I were getting tired of using other barrier methods, so I was looking for some kind of natural planning information. She came to church the next week with a book titled "The Way Home," by Mary Pride. I read it, and was instantly sucked into the us verses them mentality, and all those familiar oppressive messages. I was very attracted to the formula for living the Christian life, correctly
. I can say that the book did change my mind in some positive ways. For example, it showed me that children are a blessing from the Lord. It helped me to catch myself in the "children are a burden" way of thinking and correct my mind when those thoughts would come up. It also helped me to imagine having more than 2 children. I would never have considered having more than 2 children, but after reading that book, it really opened my mind to ordering my family life for more children. I read some of the good points to my husband, but avoided telling him some of the shocking statements in the book, because I knew he wouldn't like them.
We came to a place where I could work from home, and we set to work having more kids - filling our quiver, but we didn't look at it that way. As a couple we wanted at least one more before reading that book. So, we had another child, and after that my husband said, "no more." But, not even a year later and both he and I wanted another one. So, we had #3. I was pretty exhausted after #3. We were running a business together. He was at the business, and I was working ALOT from home on the business, with 2 babies, and homeschooling our oldest. I really wanted one more child, so we got pregnant with #4. 20 weeks in we found out that he has passed away in my womb. That was the worst day of my life - well maybe tied with the day my dad died. The next 6 months were very bad, as I stayed up night after night staring at the digital clock next to my bed and wishing I still had my baby. I couldn't bear the thought of not having another, so we tried again, and got pregnant. The pregnancy was very troubling with gestational diabetes. This would also be my 4th C-section. It went well, and we had our precious baby boy. I was definitely done having children after the miscarriage, 4 c-sections, and gestational diabetes. My husband was set on it as well, and he had his tubes tied.
I don't regret any part of (mildly) following the quiverfull movement. I could have gotten sucked in completely if it wasn't for my discerning husband. He refuses to get sucked into any "extrabiblical" as he puts it, ways of life. I'm very grateful for him. But, I am left with some questions for myself, because had I not been married to my husband, or had I been married to another type of husband, I would have been a full-on-quiverer. That is a troubling thought to me. I've been asking myself a few "whys" lately. Like, why am I attracted to these oppressive groups? Am I afraid that I'm not a real Christian? Am I trying to prove that I'm saved by following these types of leaders? Deep down am I dissatisfied with the redemption of Christ? Is His work on the cross not enough for me? etc. etc.
For me personally, I don't feel like any leaders, teachers, or book authors wronged me in any way, because I was the one who was attracted to their message. Something in me needs to change in order to avoid another one of these groups, because they will always be out there. For me, I think the answer is to trust more and more in the righteousness of Christ, and that He has paid the total and complete cost for my unrighteousness, and to embrace the freedom I have in Christ.
Thanks again for NLQ. I especially enjoy the personal stories, and the details your authors have shared. I don't appreciate the anti-Christian sentiment that sometimes gets mixed in. I also do not appreciate the conspiracy theories about why the ultraconservative Christian leaders teach what they teach. I think for the most part many of them have good intenions, but have gotten caught up in legalism. False theologies creep into the broader Christian church all the time, and I think that's what has happened with the quiverfull movement. I think that a fully mature adult who follows a particular way of life must take personal responsibility for following that way of life, or else they will never be able to see the light of day to steer clear of something similar next time, as I said with my own personal story. That's why I don't appreciate the conspiracy theories. It takes the responsibility off the individuals in a given group, and puts it on some mysterious group of leaders, who may or may not exist. It's still an us verses them mentality, it's just jumping to the other side of ideas. I would like to hear more and more personal stories, and less commentary on the actual movement.
I'm new to posting here, but I've been lurking for several months. I think I've read the entire blog, and I check almost daily to see if there are any updates.
I'm fascinated by the subject of "qivering," because there was a mild case of that thinking going through our church. I would say that it's pretty much been weeded out by now. I think that most of those who were tending toward that way of thinking have realized that the number of children a couple decides to have is a personal lifestyle choice between the husband and the wife, and not a Christian mandate. I think many of us in my church are starting to realize the great freedom we have in Christ, that we have individual personalities, gifts, talents, and life choices. The individuality is starting to shine more, and our church is a better place to fellowship because of that.
I would like to thank NLQ authors for sharing your individual stories, though each person's story is unique, there is a similar theme of religious oppression in each one. Since the beginning of my experience as a Christian I have been attracted to similarly oppressive groups.
In my teen years I was part of a group known as The Foundation of Human Understanding. This was a very oppressive group in which the leader stressed an emotionless existence. He often told his followers to "let it go like water off a ducks back."
After I snapped out of it with that group, the next group I fell for was the Pentecostals. This group was more mainstream, but again they seemed to think they were special compared to other Christians because of their unique filling of the Holy Spirit exhibited by prophecies, tongues, and words of wisdom, among others. I didn't do well in this crowd, because I couldn't speak in tongues, and I couldn't decipher what God was saying to other people. Nevertheless, the us verses them mentality appealed to me. It was us "Spirit filled" Christians against the demon possessed world, even against the non-spirit-filled Christians.
I got tired of that mentality after a while, and my husband and I found a nice non-denominational small family orientated church. [Enter the church I attend now.] Within the first few weeks attending this church I was asked if my husband and I planned to have more children. We had one toddler at the time. My answer was a quick "no." It wasn't because I didn't want more children, because I did, but because I didn't want to have any more while I was a working mom. It was much too stressful to raise more children, and work outside of the home at the same time. I didn't think much of the question, but months later I asked that same person what she used for birth control. Since I was nervous about getting pregnant again, I was seeking out some good advice for birth control. Artificial hormones don't work well in my body, and my husband and I were getting tired of using other barrier methods, so I was looking for some kind of natural planning information. She came to church the next week with a book titled "The Way Home," by Mary Pride. I read it, and was instantly sucked into the us verses them mentality, and all those familiar oppressive messages. I was very attracted to the formula for living the Christian life, correctly
. I can say that the book did change my mind in some positive ways. For example, it showed me that children are a blessing from the Lord. It helped me to catch myself in the "children are a burden" way of thinking and correct my mind when those thoughts would come up. It also helped me to imagine having more than 2 children. I would never have considered having more than 2 children, but after reading that book, it really opened my mind to ordering my family life for more children. I read some of the good points to my husband, but avoided telling him some of the shocking statements in the book, because I knew he wouldn't like them. We came to a place where I could work from home, and we set to work having more kids - filling our quiver, but we didn't look at it that way. As a couple we wanted at least one more before reading that book. So, we had another child, and after that my husband said, "no more." But, not even a year later and both he and I wanted another one. So, we had #3. I was pretty exhausted after #3. We were running a business together. He was at the business, and I was working ALOT from home on the business, with 2 babies, and homeschooling our oldest. I really wanted one more child, so we got pregnant with #4. 20 weeks in we found out that he has passed away in my womb. That was the worst day of my life - well maybe tied with the day my dad died. The next 6 months were very bad, as I stayed up night after night staring at the digital clock next to my bed and wishing I still had my baby. I couldn't bear the thought of not having another, so we tried again, and got pregnant. The pregnancy was very troubling with gestational diabetes. This would also be my 4th C-section. It went well, and we had our precious baby boy. I was definitely done having children after the miscarriage, 4 c-sections, and gestational diabetes. My husband was set on it as well, and he had his tubes tied.
I don't regret any part of (mildly) following the quiverfull movement. I could have gotten sucked in completely if it wasn't for my discerning husband. He refuses to get sucked into any "extrabiblical" as he puts it, ways of life. I'm very grateful for him. But, I am left with some questions for myself, because had I not been married to my husband, or had I been married to another type of husband, I would have been a full-on-quiverer. That is a troubling thought to me. I've been asking myself a few "whys" lately. Like, why am I attracted to these oppressive groups? Am I afraid that I'm not a real Christian? Am I trying to prove that I'm saved by following these types of leaders? Deep down am I dissatisfied with the redemption of Christ? Is His work on the cross not enough for me? etc. etc.
For me personally, I don't feel like any leaders, teachers, or book authors wronged me in any way, because I was the one who was attracted to their message. Something in me needs to change in order to avoid another one of these groups, because they will always be out there. For me, I think the answer is to trust more and more in the righteousness of Christ, and that He has paid the total and complete cost for my unrighteousness, and to embrace the freedom I have in Christ.
Thanks again for NLQ. I especially enjoy the personal stories, and the details your authors have shared. I don't appreciate the anti-Christian sentiment that sometimes gets mixed in. I also do not appreciate the conspiracy theories about why the ultraconservative Christian leaders teach what they teach. I think for the most part many of them have good intenions, but have gotten caught up in legalism. False theologies creep into the broader Christian church all the time, and I think that's what has happened with the quiverfull movement. I think that a fully mature adult who follows a particular way of life must take personal responsibility for following that way of life, or else they will never be able to see the light of day to steer clear of something similar next time, as I said with my own personal story. That's why I don't appreciate the conspiracy theories. It takes the responsibility off the individuals in a given group, and puts it on some mysterious group of leaders, who may or may not exist. It's still an us verses them mentality, it's just jumping to the other side of ideas. I would like to hear more and more personal stories, and less commentary on the actual movement.
