Calulu

[calulu]

I came here after someone posted a link to the NLQ blog on our Free Jinger Duggar board. I just could almost not believe the stories I was reading except that I've known too many Quiverful and fundementalist families during my ten years at a church I only refer to as Possum Creek Fellowship.

Long time married with three kids and yes, I still am a believer but one that gags over the behavior of most so-called Christians. I love the Lord with all my heart but His people make me sick sometimes.

I'm not Quiverful or fundie and I never have been. The church I used to attend was split down the middle with fundie/quiverful folks and people like me who were followers of the Toronto Airport Fellowship revival. We peacefully coexisted for awhile. And then things got really weird.

I've never homeschooled but because I hold a MA in fine arts I did teach art lessons to the local home schoolers for a few years. Those years caused me to form very negative opinions of home schooling and quiverful families. I saw a huge number of children being neglected and under educated by mothers spread too thin by the demands of their lives.

Eventually I left Possum Creek because I felt like the Lord wanted me to go to a mainstream church in my town, I heard strongly on this in my prayer time. The Fundies in our church started openly harassing myself and my children and they are still at it today. you should see some of the emails I still get. It's stupid and ridiculous. Right now I am receiving them because I am spearheading getting a homeless shelter organized in our town and I am involved in youth ministry and 'modern' worship music. I got nasty-grams this week telling me off for encouraging the homeless to live in our town, saying I lacked purity in my heart, etc, etc, etc... along with the bashing, snide remarks, you poor things and back stabbing I've gotten for years now for daring to work outside of the home, wear makeup and designer clothing sometimes.

I still love the Lord, I just dislike a lot of his people.

Your stories just break my heart. I cannot imagine living in such unhappiness and stress. You have to be true to who you really are regardless of if you believe or don't believe or whatever. No one is ever happy trying to fit into a mold or live up to an impossible dream.

[coleslaw]

You're trying to help the homeless? What would Jesus have to say about that?

Oh, wait . . .

[calulu]

Yeah, that's the worst kick in the pants, I'm trying to act upon what I believe and I'm getting bashed for it?? I thought the main message of Jesus was love God and love others. Instead I get emails telling me I'm going to hell for attending a church full of 'homosexual abortionists' and that the homeless are a bunch of loafing lowlifes sucking on the government's tit.

Shakes head in disgust.

And I was perfectly willing to allow them and anyone else to believe whatever way they needed to believe but they will not grant the same grace to others.

[pandapaws]

Welcome! Jinger has always been my favorite Duggar. I didn't realize she had a whole cult following! FREE JINGER! ;D

[coleslaw]

Even if "the homeless are a bunch of loafing lowlifes sucking on the government's tit", we are still enjoined to help them. We're supposed to visit the lowlifes in prison even, so why would being a lowlife supposedly disqualify you from needing grace?

I read something back in the 80's claiming that a good proportion of homeless males were Vietnam vets suffering from untreated PTSD. I guess they were "loafing lowlifes sucking on the government's tit", too?

[jemand]

Apr 26, 2009 7:29:39 GMT -5 coleslaw said:

Even if "the homeless are a bunch of loafing lowlifes sucking on the government's tit", we are still enjoined to help them. We're supposed to visit the lowlifes in prison even, so why would being a lowlife supposedly disqualify you from needing grace?

I read something back in the 80's claiming that a good proportion of homeless males were Vietnam vets suffering from untreated PTSD. I guess they were "loafing lowlifes sucking on the government's tit", too?

I personally know one homeless man... and he was a Vietnam vet who I do believe would not be homeless other than for the war. He was one of my dad's tenants, but after several months of not paying rent and no governmental assistance, my dad did finally have to ask him to leave. He kept a storage locker in the building though, for free, the guy is not a vandal or irresponsible, but we just could not afford to provide him free housing-- he figured out he could go to three homeless shelters in succession (they have rules for how long you can stay). We don't own the building anymore anyway.

[aimai]

Welcome Calulu,
What an interesting perspective you bring to the board. You might try adding a sig line to your emails so your new bestest buddies always receive a spiritual kick in the pants when you respond tto them. Something like "name the homeless person Jesus refused to help?" Or you could start a competition to raise money and awareness for your homeless shelter--get people to pledge a dollar for every angry anti homeless email you get fromm a self described christian.

aimai

[tapati]

Welcome, Calulu!

I didn't know until today about the "free Jinger" movement, LOL. Truly I hope she gets to follow her heart.

Is this the forum you mentioned?

freejinger.yuku.com/

It does seem like any fundamentalist group shuns any who leave. I can't believe that any Christian would have a problem with serving the homeless. WWJD? Duh! Have they actually READ the Bible?

I myself am no longer Christian but one of the things I still respect about Jesus as portrayed in the Bible was that he got right in there with the sick and lame and despised people that no one else would be seen with.

I am glad to see you here.

[calulu]

Yeah, that's the group. We splintered off from Television Without Pity because every single time we started talking in the thread on the Duggars about the freaky aspects of Quiverful or say any little negative thing about fundamental Christians we'd all get spanked by the moderator. Some of us had theorized that the complaints are coming straight from the Duggar community. I am even more convinced of it now because I have a television blog were I recap shows and every week like clockwork I get exactly one hit searching for 'Duggar' from Tontitown Arkansas.

I wonder what type of sin of pride you are committing when you google yourself weekly? Anyone?

I've thought alot about the shunning those that leave and I've decided the next time I run into one of the shunners (which should be this afternoon at the gym) I'm going to grab the headcovering by the horns and confront them, tell them I'm pretty sure they're making Baby Jesus cry by the way they react to former members in public. I don't care so much for myself but last week they took a nasty jab at my 17 year old daughter who is still carrying around some hurt from our leaving. What kinds of assholes purposely try to make a teenager cry in public?

[amyrose]

Hi Calulu! I can relate to being treated badly after leaving a group of Fundies. I taught at a "Christian" school for six years and when I resigned and took a job at a Catholic school, they treated me horribly. They started all kinds of rumors about me (I ran off with a woman; I was pregnant--unmarried; I went to drug rehab--or in some cases a combination of all three), and snubbed me when I saw any of them. One person wrote me a letter to explain that I was going to hell and I got several similar e-mails. The fall after I left, that school played the school I am at now in volleyball and only one person of all the students, parents, and staff at the game would speak to me.

A few years later, at the wedding of a former colleague, several of them refused to speak to me, and one went to the bride to ask that I be made to leave because it was a "Christian" event. Another came up to me to tell me that I had abandoned all that is holy and am bound straight for hell.

Two years ago, I attended the wedding of a former student where three of her classmates literally turned their backs when I tried to say hello to them.

I'm sure they'd have plenty to say now if they found out that I have joined the Catholic church!

[themomma]

There is a only 1 homeless man in our town and he served in Vietnam. "They" have done everything imaginable to get him into a house (even giving him a trailer for free) but he can't stand to sleep inside any building. He sleeps in an abandoned van...

[rosa]

I hope you live somewhere warm, themomma. Up here in the frozen north, living in a car or van is a good way to freeze to death.

I used to hang out with homeless people quite a bit, and there are those who sleep out because they value their freedom...but there are a lot more who work all day and then split up their families into separate men's & women's shelters, or the women & kids go sleep on someone's couch and Dad goes to the shelter, because it's so hard to get together enough money for first month/last month/deposit for an apartment. After Hurricane Katrina, displaced people ended up all the way up in Minneapolis - that fall I met a woman from New Orleans begging for diapers in a Target parking lot.

Actually, over on the thread about the Phelpses it was mentioned that Mrs. Phelps had tried to take her kids and leave her husband, but her family couldn't afford to take care of them, so they went back. I'd say they were homeless, really - if you're staying someplace that is not safe because you don't have anyplace else to go, that's not much different than being homeless - agencies call those people "uncounted homeless", people sleeping on couches or living with family or staying with pimps or abusers because they don't have the means for their own home.

[luneargentee]

Apr 27, 2009 7:43:46 GMT -5 calulu said:

Yeah, that's the group. We splintered off from Television Without Pity because every single time we started talking in the thread on the Duggars about the freaky aspects of Quiverful or say any little negative thing about fundamental Christians we'd all get spanked by the moderator. Some of us had theorized that the complaints are coming straight from the Duggar community. I am even more convinced of it now because I have a television blog were I recap shows and every week like clockwork I get exactly one hit searching for 'Duggar' from Tontitown Arkansas.

I got spanked by that same moderator, and I was just answering another poster. No warning, nothing. I certainly wasn't rude.

BTW, I support the Free Jinger movement.

[themomma]

Well, summers are warm but winters to20below. I honestly do not know how he survives....

[kisekileia]

I knew Toronto Airport Fellowship people in my high school Christian Fellowship group. I left that group after some of the Airport guys tried to tell me that every Christian who dies of an illness does so because of lack of faith, even if they're ninety. I was still pretty hardcore evangelical at the time, but that just didn't make sense.

[rosa]

Yeah, that's about how it is here, too, themomma - he may have somewhere indoors to go part of the time.

Frankly, days like today I am not sure how *any* of us survive. But the homeless people that manage have a lot of specialized skills, and a lot of luck. A lot of people freeze to death every winter.

I used to serve food with Food Not Bombs and it meant half the homeless people in town knew me, and then I tutored aged-out teens and that covered the other half. They taught me a lot (and gave me a lot of bad advice, too). I need to find a way to get re-involved with kid in tow, I miss it.

[Vyckie D. Garrison]

Apr 26, 2009 11:58:29 GMT -5 tapati said:

I myself am no longer Christian but one of the things I still respect about Jesus as portrayed in the Bible was that he got right in there with the sick and lame and despised people that no one else would be seen with.

Tapati ~ you used to be a Christian?!

[Vyckie D. Garrison]

Calulu ~ thanks for the intro. It's good to have you here ~ I think if we could talk face-to-face, we'd find that we have much in common.

The main reason that I continue to go to church is because of the people who come to the Salvation Army's soup kitchen. My current favorite is a man named John ~ I haven't managed to get the whole story out of him yet (surprising, considering what a talker he is) ~ but he's been in the military ~ and I was really surprised to learn that he majored in English lit. It seriously trips me that John can one minute be telling me exactly what is the best fighting technique to use when accosted by a group of drunken, angry men looking for a fight ~ and the next minute, he's quoting Milton with tears in his eyes.

Not too long ago, as I was leaving church, John related to me an Easter sermon which really touched him. The real message of the cross, he told me, is that no matter how bad things seem to be right now ~ Sunday is on the way ~ and then he said that he wanted to give me some advice.

I waited expectantly for some deep insight ~ only to hear my friend tell me: "If you're ever being questioned by the cops, whatever you do, don't tell them to fuck off."

LOL Thanks, John ~ I'll keep that in mind.

I would love to have the opportunity to work more with the destitute and the homeless. I love the people that I meet and befriend at the S.A. because they remind me of my sister, Sandy ~ and also my brother, Jimmy ~ whom I haven't seen in 5 or 6 years. I wish I could work at the Salvation Army ~ but being that I don't believe in the Bible or Jesus, the best I can do is to show up and be friendly. Sometimes, just a smile and silly joke can really make a person's day and give them hope. Just wish I could do more.