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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 15, 2010 8:13:32 GMT -5
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Post by tapati on Sept 15, 2010 9:04:22 GMT -5
My heart aches for you, being so brave in spite of the very real fears you had. I'm glad people were there to help you!
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Post by stampinmama on Sept 15, 2010 12:43:54 GMT -5
I left home under cover of darkness when I was 20 and had my dad on my tail, demanding me to come home. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be under 18 and having to summon the courage that you had to leave and go to the police. You are an inspiration!
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Post by Sierra on Sept 15, 2010 12:57:59 GMT -5
I am most impressed with Ruth's courage in speaking to the police. I grew up so convinced that authority figures were out to get me that I doubt I would have been able to present myself well to law enforcement.
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Post by stampinmama on Sept 15, 2010 15:14:49 GMT -5
I am most impressed with Ruth's courage in speaking to the police. I grew up so convinced that authority figures were out to get me that I doubt I would have been able to present myself well to law enforcement. This is something that I really, really wish that I had done the first time I tried to leave home at the age of 19. In retrospect, I know that if I'd left and pursued getting the law involved, I probably never would have ended up marrying the most amazing husband that I have now. But....there are times that I ask myself why I didn't go to the police, ESPECIALLY as an adult and tell them that I was being held against my will. Part of me feared that my youngest brother would be taken away (of course, that was all that was drilled into us about the government and police, etc.) and I didn't want to do that to him.
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Post by cherylannhannah on Sept 15, 2010 20:36:01 GMT -5
I can totally understand the fear of authorities. Not only did Mary Pride write a book that helped to foster the QF philosophy, she also wrote one called The Child Abuse Industry. In it she details the horrors of the sort of police powers that social workers can have and she specifically mentioned the province I happen to live in as being a particularly good example of bad social work policy in regards to police powers to divide families. Consequently, I was terrified of social workers coming to investigate my home and taking my children away.
HOWEVER, I wish I hadn't been so terrified of them. If I hadn't been, I probably would have been out of the mess a whole lot sooner. When they finally did get involved, I took the attitude that these people don't become social workers because they want to oppress and tyrannize over people. They do this work because they want to help people. So I said to them, "My children and I need help. Can you help us?" From that point on they bent over backwards to help the kids and I. It's when they meet with resistance, stonewalling, and lack of openness that they begin to think that maybe there really is something to investigate.
I'm so glad Ruth found friends and had the absolutely amazing courage to take the steps she did in going to authorities. My hat is off to her. Given the amount of drilling in submission and obedience that takes place in these sorts of homes, it is nothing less than heroic to stand up and do something to oppose it.
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Post by nikita on Sept 15, 2010 21:04:41 GMT -5
The thing that struck me most about this particular chapter was not Ruth's courage (which was monumental, and I am in awe of her), but the neighbors. Ruth knew the neighbors were sympathetic because they had shown themselves to be interested and concerned and approachable for years before she felt she had need of refuge there. If they had been people who looked down their noses at Ruth's family and were standoffish and unfriendly, I doubt Ruth would have felt she could take the risk of landing on their doorstep.
The greatest help one can give a family in trouble is being friendly, approachable, and non-judgmental. If you can manage that, you can do a lot of good for people who are afraid and would otherwise not reach out for assistance or who would distance themselves from assistance. That was a lesson I learned from my cult days and also was something that was reinforced for me when I was studying social work in college. The example often given is that a neighbor who befriends a young struggling mother who is at her wits end with her kids and role models good parenting is worth her weight in gold, and goes much further than any formal social work intervention could ever hope to do. Unfortunately good stable friendly neighbors who can be nonjudgmental and role model are severely lacking today.
And speaking of social workers... Yeah. I know even I, with a frickin' degree and experience in the field myself, was terrified of having anything to do myself with social services. I would have done anything to prevent coming to the attention of social services and risking having them involved in my child's life and possibly starting a ball rolling I could not stop. I saw kids being abused but could not bring myself to call CPS because of what I saw happening in foster care. And also because in my cult you just did not involve the 'world' in our affairs, it was something God and faith were supposed to heal, not the authorities. We were so at odds with the established authorities.
But I was also in LA county and their child protective services were notoriously bad overall at that time, so I was probably justified in some of my caution. But I do think that most agency social workers do have the best interests of families and children at heart and do try to help and if you need help then definitely take it. That lifeline can be your greatest blessing in a time of great stress and need. And in retrospect I do regret not calling CPS on some of the parents I saw abusing their kids in my cult. Some of those little kids haunt me to this day.
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Post by krwordgazer on Sept 15, 2010 22:11:18 GMT -5
Aww, Nikita. I know how you feel. Ruth, I'm so glad you were able to do what you did. And I'm betting anything you were afraid of the police and all-- but your father had put you in such terrible position that ANYTHING seemed better than going back under his thumb. He deserved to lose you.
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Post by madame on Sept 16, 2010 2:05:57 GMT -5
The greatest help one can give a family in trouble is being friendly, approachable, and non-judgmental. If you can manage that, you can do a lot of good for people who are afraid and would otherwise not reach out for assistance or who would distance themselves from assistance. That was a lesson I learned from my cult days and also was something that was reinforced for me when I was studying social work in college. The example often given is that a neighbor who befriends a young struggling mother who is at her wits end with her kids and role models good parenting is worth her weight in gold, and goes much further than any formal social work intervention could ever hope to do. Unfortunately good stable friendly neighbors who can be nonjudgmental and role model are severely lacking today. Nikita, I agree with you. If families were open and caring, reaching out to help each other instead of looking on, judging, and calling CPS, people who are struggling would be more open about their problems and CPS would be able to concentrate it's energy on the more severe cases. I don't know what CPS is like in the US. I know the German "Jugendamt" has botched it some times and caused more harm than good, and the fact that these cases, when they come out into the light, are widely publicised, (as they should be), makes parents more fearful of them. Ruth, what you did was amazingly corageous. I am so glad you got away from that dreadful situation! Being engaged to someone you didn't want, and who didn't want you for who you are; having your parents brush off your "betrothed's" treatment of you like they did, must have been horrible for you. I am so glad there were people who cared and were willing to help you. And I am so glad the authorities were able to see through to what was really happening and treat you with kindness.
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Post by lucrezaborgia on Sept 16, 2010 15:14:43 GMT -5
I don't know what CPS is like in the US. I've had the misfortune to personally know a few people who have dealt with CPS. It can really be a crap-shoot. CPS in Florida is a very broken system. One of my friend's brought her child to the ER because she had a large lump on her leg that was causing the child a lot of pain. They did an x-ray and saw bone calous and assumed that the bone had, at some point, been broken. There are different ways bone calous can form. One way is from a tumor attaching itself to the bone and another way is for a break. Clearly this was an instance of a tumor given the large circular lump that protruded from the baby's leg. Unfortunately, my friend and the baby's father are a bit...um...ghetto. They assumed that it was child abuse based on how my friend and the baby's father appeared. They took the child for 6 weeks and in the meantime it was proven that it was a tumor and not a broken leg. Another friend of mine in Florida had her child taken away because he had a mysterious cut on his penis. They put him in foster care while they investigated and it turned out that the boyfriend of the babysitter got frustrated and grabbed the little boy's penis because he had a lot of dirty diapers in one day. They suspected the mother originally even though the cut was fresh when the father of the child found it after picking up the child from being in daycare for 7 hours. In both of the cases, the caseworkers were extremely rude and condescending. You really had the impression that these people were out to get you and that they didn't care about the truth as long as their initial findings were proven. My friends both felt like they had been violated and there was ZERO compassion from the workers when the truth was revealed. Currently, my fiance is going through a CPS case with his daughter. Long story short, CPS took custody of the child because of certain actions of the mother and he's fighting to get the baby out of foster care. In this case, it seems like the investigators and caseworkers are really and truly concerned for the welfare of the child and have been extremely professional.
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Post by madame on Sept 17, 2010 6:29:46 GMT -5
I don't know what CPS is like in the US. In both of the cases, the caseworkers were extremely rude and condescending. You really had the impression that these people were out to get you and that they didn't care about the truth as long as their initial findings were proven. My friends both felt like they had been violated and there was ZERO compassion from the workers when the truth was revealed. This is so awful! Those poor children have been traumatised, and any trust the parents may have had in CPS is gone for good. I understand the need for CPS to intervene swiftly in some occasions, but they have to procede with caution, knowing that they could cause more harm than good.
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 17, 2010 7:35:49 GMT -5
It sure can be a crap shoot, and not only in Florida!
It is very fortunate for Ruth that the Klines were accepted as responsible and intelligent. (i.e. not "ghetto" - which sad but true does make a huge difference in your credibility many times)
The fact that they had called CPS about the family before made Ruth's story much more credible, no doubt.
Third, the Klines were smart enough to call police and not a CPS hotline. The police seem to have much more level heads about abuse allegations than either doctors or CPS workers.
Three cheers for the Klines! ;D
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Post by lucrezaborgia on Sept 17, 2010 12:17:47 GMT -5
The police seem to have much more level heads about abuse allegations than either doctors or CPS workers. That is exactly what happened to my fiance's daughter. A "friend" of the mother called the police on her and they in turn called CPS. Now this "friend" is trying to go back on his initial allegations, but since the cops were the ones who called CPS, CPS isn't buying it.
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 17, 2010 13:47:06 GMT -5
Lucrezia, I hope it all works out for the baby's best interests! Hugs to you and your family as you work to make things right.
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Post by madame on Sept 17, 2010 13:55:19 GMT -5
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Post by rosa on Sept 19, 2010 12:44:22 GMT -5
Friends of mine who've had unjustified brushes with CPS - usually because an ex or a neighbor with a grudge called in false allegations - have found it to be annoying, but not truamatic. There's a bureaucratic process, and like any other system with lots of people in it (including the police, who have even more terrifying power and the same sets of common prejudices) it can go wrong. But it's not this horrible monster waiting to grab unsuspecting kids.
And of course in Ruth's story, knowing the neighbors were watching and had called CPS even though her parents were loud and angry about it gave at least one of the kids hope and trust in both the neighbors and the system.
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Post by jillrhudybarrett on Sept 22, 2010 16:57:00 GMT -5
An amazing two chapters, #20 and #21, with the father and "betrothed" equally terrifying villains. There's something really sick about how her father practically leers over her vile "fiance's" sexual abuses, but of course this whole attitude was foreshadowed in earlier segments. I was holding my breath as she crept over to the neighbor's yard, wondering whether she would get caught. I haven't wept so much over this story since the "Puberty" installment. This story has such an effect on me!
I was angered at the revelation that the Gothard legal eagles are sharpening their talons and demanding that she stop using the names of their materials, but who among us is surprised? B.G. is richer than Midas and some of us made him that way, wanting some guru to give us the magical formula for a perfect Christian family. I am so glad she's writing this, and if they are paying attention, maybe some poor female minions in the ATI camp are paying attention too.
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val
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by val on Sept 23, 2010 19:43:36 GMT -5
This particular story (specifically this chapter in the story) has haunted me since it came out. The first time I read it I nearly cried. I haven't been able to put my finger on why it affected me so much until just now.
I am a teacher in a public high school. There are ups and downs to my job, and one of the most difficult "downs" is the fact that, without exception, every year, I will have multiple students that are abused and I will have to intervene.
I am legally bound to report any suspicion of abuse to CPS. (Those of you who are aware of how the system works understand that reporting to CPS is not always the best idea. I have colleagues who have risked their jobs and licenses to not report, knowing that CPS's involvement would only make matters worse. And that's not even getting into the way this law can clash with a victim's rights.*) Teachers are often seen as the first line of defense against child abuse. It's not in the job description, but it may as well be.
The point is, I'm very glad that the OP found help, but it makes me wonder about all of the other girls out there that didn't have resources (ie. caring neighbors) to help them out.
It also makes the push for homeschooling appear to be much more calculated.** If nobody from outside the home sees the children, nobody will see the bruises, read the letters they write, or talk to the kids about their home life. School is the only lifeline for too many of the kids I teach.
*MAJOR DISCLAIMER: I don't blame CPS at all for their shortcomings. They are grossly understaffed and underfunded. The caseloads are high and the work is often demoralizing, which leads to a high turnover, meaning that very few caseworkers reach the level of experience they ought to have. Of course, even those that are experienced have way too many cases.
**Second disclaimer: I have nothing against homeschooling that is done correctly and for the right reasons. I have had students come from homeschooling and do incredibly well. I've had others who haven't done so well... Finally, I've had a sad number (and this is the majority) that have left in lieu of "homeschooling" but have actually dropped out and gone to work.
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Post by maclasch on Oct 19, 2010 17:22:46 GMT -5
I am so amazed by your story. I came out of ATI, IBLP, Children's Institute, etc... My family was lucky enough to escape before things got too bad (our family was always the odd one out anyway, as we were not holy enough, though we tried very hard). My mom always wanted to be a part of the quiverfull movement, as a lot of the women in our church were (peer pressure was actually a big thing to my parents, and still is), but had a hysterectomy after she had my younger sister, so wasn't able to. However, we still had a pretty large family with 5 of us kids (but we were blended). I think I must have rebelled against it from infancy. I quit going to church at age 15 and with it dumped anything "Gothardistic" from my life. My parents, clearly were not happy, but I was stubborn and I did what I had to do. Luckily, I did not suffer the fate of my older siblings who were all kicked out when secular music/media was discovered in their room (or they started dating). At that point my parents were starting to drift from the Gothard lifestyle as well (though they still like some of his teachings even to this day). I'm mostly in shock at your ability to remember so much, and so vividly. I must have blocked a lot of my experiences out, because I'm aware of the trauma, but I just can't think of it in detail, it's so far away from me now. Reading your story brought back memories and I'm only now realizing the severity of what I was brought up in, and how lucky I was to escape. I'm still dealing with psychological issues from that time in my life (anxiety, depression) and I'm sure I would benefit from therapy. Thanks for telling your story. I can't wait to hear the rest...
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