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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 23, 2010 7:23:42 GMT -5
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 23, 2010 8:22:06 GMT -5
"It was as if I was nasty and not someone he would ever be seen talking to. He would answer my questions as briefly as possible. He never gave any details only brief answers to direct questions. He would move to the other end of the table away from me even if no one was there. However, I was persistent and I had chosen some of the books. I totally and foolishly ignored the way he was treating me. I figured it was just his personality."
Ugh. I would have done the same thing. I just couldn't conceive in my mind that any man could ever buy into the idea that they were so superior to women! I remember a home school convention where a friend's husband refused to shake my hand. I merely thought, "what a strange man" but after he left, another man came up to me (there are still some normal ones at home school conventions, at least in 2003 in Florida! lolz) and said-
that the man couldn't shake my hand because I might be on my period and according to OT law that would defile him. 0.0
I am still dumb-founded how it is that *I* missed how serious these cult teachings are to women and children. Seriously, I am so "live and let live" that I just didn't look that closely.
If I saw your little angels singing on the stage I would've been happy for you, LFE! I would not have warned you. I would figure we all had enough sense to "eat the hay, leave the straw".
But then even though I avoided a diet of pure straw, some it got in my system too, and me and my family have the scars to prove it.
I am thinking that next semester our home school courses will include a study of cults and cult techniques...
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Post by whiteclover on Sept 23, 2010 9:13:08 GMT -5
I recognize Father Denton, as well. He's been a part of my life for over 50 years, albeit in different forms with different names: pastors, elders, "special speakers", and ex-husband.
It's one thing I noticed immediately in my New Life, and at the beginning, I was both disconcerted and amazed. Was this how men on the "outside" behaved, looking me in the eye, smiling, and nodding in agreement at my contributions to conversations? Treating me with respect, not condescension or ignoring me altogether?
I could hear the naysayers from my Old Life saying I was a Jezebel, and these men could only be worldly and intent on one thing. Their integrity, kindness, and respect was merely a front to hide the wicked purposes in their hearts.
At first, I thought I'd "be in trouble" after these visits with my new man's friends, family, and peers, for opening my mouth when I hadn't been invited to speak. I'd cringe in the truck or the bathroom, waiting for the boom to fall. But he reassured me that his friends are well-mannered and NORMAL people, and I am a person worthy of respect. Was that so strange, he'd ask.
Um. Yes.
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Post by hopewell on Sept 23, 2010 13:05:20 GMT -5
I had to remind myself to read "Denton" and not "Maxwell"
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kathe
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by kathe on Sept 23, 2010 13:29:29 GMT -5
I don't come from a QFP background and I continue to be amazed by the stories here.
I worked for a little over a year teaching English as a second language to the wives of Saudi students at our local university. The women were mostly from Saudi Arabia, with a few from Kuwait and a couple of other Middle Eastern countries.
I had to deal with the men in charge, since they were my employers. Several of them seemed uncomfortable dealing with a woman on a professional basis - I knew their culture didn't permit women the kind of freedom I had. They were, however, unfailingly polite and pleasant to me. Quite different from so much that I see here.
Off any kind of topic - my pay checks came from the Saudi embassy. That was interesting - it was before 9/11 or I would have been looking over my shoulder for Homeland Security!
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 23, 2010 15:37:07 GMT -5
I'm sure they were only unfailingly polite and pleasant to you because they had to be, seeing as how women still can't drive or leave the house without a male relative and without being totally covered in Saudi Arabia.
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Post by lucrezaborgia on Sept 23, 2010 17:12:28 GMT -5
I've personally known a few Kuwaiti's and, for the middle east, their country is pretty good when it comes to the treatment of women. Otherwise, being in the West is like a second life for them, especially students and the people I knew didn't have a problem adapting to our culture.
Hospitality is something that is VERY highly prized and while they may be a bit aloof when it comes to certain subjects, they will try to be as polite as possible. So polite that you will hardly ever hear them say "no," which can be MADDENING if you are trying to conduct a business deal.
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Post by journey on Sept 23, 2010 22:41:33 GMT -5
Loving this series and looking forward to hearing more.
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phatchick
Junior Member
Medicated for Your Protection
Posts: 80
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Post by phatchick on Sept 24, 2010 20:05:24 GMT -5
At first, I thought I'd "be in trouble" after these visits with my new man's friends, family, and peers, for opening my mouth when I hadn't been invited to speak. I'd cringe in the truck or the bathroom, waiting for the boom to fall. But he reassured me that his friends are well-mannered and NORMAL people, and I am a person worthy of respect. Was that so strange, he'd ask. Um. Yes. I know. Even as long as I've been out of fundydom, I still worry whenever I disagree with my husband. I know he won't get mad and I know he'd hate having a robot with no mind of her own for a wife. But the old training is still there and I'm not sure I'll ever be entirely free from it.
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Post by krwordgazer on Sept 25, 2010 0:41:32 GMT -5
It's amazing the lip service these kind of men give to "equality" of women before God, when you see how they really feel about, and treat, real women.
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kpmom
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Post by kpmom on Sept 27, 2010 11:08:49 GMT -5
I wonder if part of why that man ignored you was due to "guarding his heart". I've heard fundamentalists using that term, but it seems so strange. Are they so out of control that just talking to a woman will lead to lust? Or do they use it as an excuse, as you suspect, to treat women as 2nd class citizens? If it's the first, why are they so sexualized (for lack of a better term) that any contact with a woman is cause for sin?
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Post by arietty on Sept 28, 2010 21:27:34 GMT -5
I recognize Father Denton, as well. He's been a part of my life for over 50 years, albeit in different forms with different names: pastors, elders, "special speakers", and ex-husband. It's one thing I noticed immediately in my New Life, and at the beginning, I was both disconcerted and amazed. Was this how men on the "outside" behaved, looking me in the eye, smiling, and nodding in agreement at my contributions to conversations? Treating me with respect, not condescension or ignoring me altogether? I could hear the naysayers from my Old Life saying I was a Jezebel, and these men could only be worldly and intent on one thing. Their integrity, kindness, and respect was merely a front to hide the wicked purposes in their hearts. At first, I thought I'd "be in trouble" after these visits with my new man's friends, family, and peers, for opening my mouth when I hadn't been invited to speak. I'd cringe in the truck or the bathroom, waiting for the boom to fall. But he reassured me that his friends are well-mannered and NORMAL people, and I am a person worthy of respect. Was that so strange, he'd ask. Um. Yes. That's a powerful testimony Whiteclover (for want of a better word!!!) I had similar experiences with "the world". I discovered that "grace" which was supposedly a big part of Christianity actually existed as a natural instinct in a lot of non-christians who had no religious reason to judge and weigh everyone elses lives. I found that even though in QF life my value was supposedly "above rubies" the non-christian men I began interacting with in every day life actually valued what I said, they were interested in my thoughts and opinions! I am sure you know how shocking this was at first!! It was exhilarating and scary at first.
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Post by kisekileia on Sept 30, 2010 18:15:35 GMT -5
I wonder if part of why that man ignored you was due to "guarding his heart". I've heard fundamentalists using that term, but it seems so strange. Are they so out of control that just talking to a woman will lead to lust? Or do they use it as an excuse, as you suspect, to treat women as 2nd class citizens? If it's the first, why are they so sexualized (for lack of a better term) that any contact with a woman is cause for sin? The problem is not entirely that they are so sexualized; it is that they are trying to repress their sexuality much farther than is actually possible. They are trying to completely rid themselves of all sexual thoughts, feelings, temptations, and fantasies pertaining to anyone other than their wife (if they have one--otherwise, there's no exception). They are also trying to completely refrain from masturbation, which is impossible for many men and some women. Basically, they're going to extreme measures to repress their sexuality because they think it's their only shot at repressing their sexuality to an extent that isn't really humanly possible.
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Post by Sierra on Sept 30, 2010 21:09:13 GMT -5
They are also trying to completely refrain from masturbation, which is impossible for many men and some women. Basically, they're going to extreme measures to repress their sexuality because they think it's their only shot at repressing their sexuality to an extent that isn't really humanly possible. Frankly, I suspect that some of my feelings of adequacy and holiness while anorexic stemmed from having starved away this particular sinful lust. The desire for food was totalizing: I couldn't possibly think sexual thoughts when my mind was fixated on combating the desire for a sandwich.
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Post by defendantrising on Oct 1, 2010 13:32:54 GMT -5
The father-(-husband)-god is so freaking scary. And if they are in fact God in your life--then they can do anything to you that God can, including damn and discipline you.
I'm gonna have to be careful on Vyckie's site not to trigger myself. I saw a tag on my latest installment "Christian domestic discipline" and googled it. Ended up at a Salon article quoting a blog in which a wife was subject to a "wife maintenance session" for leaving a pan on the stove and burning it. I began sobbing and couldn't stop.
I also found a website by a really sick "sister" who calls herself Handmaiden. Her defenses of spouse abuse made me so ill I had to skip lunch.
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Post by humbletigger on Oct 1, 2010 15:25:40 GMT -5
(((defendantrising)))
I'm sorry you suffered such trauma. I wish you complete healing and joy.
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