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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 30, 2010 7:15:19 GMT -5
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Post by freefromtyranny on Sept 30, 2010 8:51:50 GMT -5
How very sad. I had a friend that was very close due to our common interest in patriarchy and legalism. I still miss her from time to time.
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 30, 2010 12:32:45 GMT -5
I am pretty sure the "huge blessings" for large families are out of pity for the children. They sure can't help it that their parents reproduce like bunnies, but they will be the ones homeless and naked if people don't help out.
So people help out, sometimes grudgingly, but always because they have a clear view of what will happen if they don't help out. Someone has to help.
The frustrating part is, from the point of view of a compassionate giver, is that the recipients don't seem to get it. We give because their need is greater than their personal ability to meet that need. I think most of us hope that our gifts will be a stop-gap while the adults in the family look for a more permanent solution to their problems.
Unfortunately, like the landowner that allowed Cecilia's family to live rent free, the recipients of charity just don't get it. I am sure they knew their generous landlord would die in the near future, but did they prepare? It doesn't sound like it.
Reminds me of a religious group that needed millions to renovate an old building to bring it up to code. They kept soliciting funds even though there was no way they could reach the astronomical amount of money they would need to six things up right. Yet every hundred bucks, and every 90 day extension from the county, was treated as if it were a divine miracle.
The county stopped hearing from God eventually (snark snark) and all those piddling donations went down the black hole of necessary repairs for no real reason. Sad.
I wonder what the true believers made of that? And I wonder what Cecilia will make of it if her next house is too small, too expensive, or otherwise inadequate for her continually growing family? Just another cross to bear for Jesus, rather than the logical conclusion of too many children and not enough money?
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maicde
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Post by maicde on Sept 30, 2010 13:02:10 GMT -5
Shelly, very well-written article. I sincerely hope that you're at the point in your life where you're finding some peace. I have to say that I still don't like Cecelia, but that's neither here nor there. Besides the usual reasons why I wouldn't like Cecelia (all the ones brought up in the past when you wrote your other articles about her), one of the main reasons is exactly the one point you brought up in the article. It's the whole "waiting and praying for things to show up" bit. My interaction with these type of people is that they tell you their needs and then look at you like you're supposed to then immediately take the shirt off your back, all the cash out of your wallet, sign over your house and car, and give it to them because they're so much worse off than you and that you'd be doing it for the Lord if you give them all your things. Then after you do it, they will say, ""Praise the Lord." "See how faithful He is in His promise and delivery", etc., even though you're the schmuck that just emptied out everything you had so you could help an unfortunate soul. I've met a good number of these type people; all were contacts from the churches I've been to. For further proof, take a look at PTL (Pass the Loot) and all the other such organizations. To answer your question: "I have seen this in church many times, the family with the 8+ kids, receive box loads of children’s clothing for their children. They get free food dropped to their doorsteps, their mortgage paid for them, or they get a blessing of not having any mortgage at all. Do people feel sorry for them, or are they really the “chosen ones”? I know I should not be questioning these things, but sometimes I do. It seems, to me, like the most legalistic people I know are the ones who get enormous blessings." I don't think they're the chosen ones by God. I don't think God favors any of us more than the next person. I think that God wants each of us to live in abundance but I don't think He does it all FOR us, I think that there are times that we must help ourselves and get off our behinds to make it happen. That's my own personal belief; some might think differently. I'm not here to debate it one way or the other. Some think that Godliness means sacrificing and living like a pauper. More power to those that do. I lived like that for a long time and it didn't make me happy or joyous; it was full-on cr*p. What I do think is that these type people "expect" to get things for free and they do. I truly think that when you literally EXPECT for certain things to come to you, they do. Of course, they will deny that they had anything to do with it, they will attribute their "gifts and blessings" from the Lord, and maybe it is because they believe it to be so. Call it whatever you will; it is still the same. Whether one believes they can manifest things or whether one believes that it will come from a higher source; the fact of the matter is that our thoughts and prayers and intentions have more power in our life than what we're led to believe by conventional teachings. Another conclusion is that when people see all the kids and their needs and then realize who the parents are and how they're unequipped to do anything to provide for them, then there are two possibilities: (1) they see that the parents are cuckoo, and know that if they don't intervene, the kids won't have anything at all and they feel guilty if they don't help OR (2) they feel that these parents are so faithful to the Lord that they are deserving of their gifts (donations). This is how I think the Duggar supporters feel. There are truly people out there that believe that Cecelia type families are awesome; I don't really think they know what is going on underneath the facade. I think that some do and it's perfectly fine with them as they see nothing wrong with it. Question: Was Cecelia's family "gifted" or "blessed" with some more freebies as they moved to PA?? Even though I grew up in a very financially unstable (read: poor) background, I've never had the propensity to wait on others to do things for me or give things to me. I always hated the "not having" and feeling like a second-class citizen all through my childhood and teen-age years. Thus, the moment I was able to start working I did (14 years old), I loved the freedom that earning your own money gave. I disliked waiting on someone else's charity and seeing what I could get from someone else. I don't like "relying on the kindness of strangers" bit. Why? Because I dislike owing people something in return. I don't think that anything is truly free without strings unless you earn it yourself. I think that Cecelia did "owe" things in return. What she owed was her adherance to the model that she was living under. She didn't have the freedom to stop having baby after baby, to get up from under her husband's reign and control, to even be her own woman (her own person as a human being). She had to live under someone else's dominion in mind, body, and spirit. In my opinion, it is a form of slavery, a self-inflicted form of slavery, the worse kind of bondage there is. She had to continue to toe the company line and if she stopped, she would be cut off from future "blessings" and "gifts." What a heavy burden to carry on her shoulders. Shelly, I don't know if you believe this, but you were very smart get up from underneath that heavy yoke that was being put on you when you were trying to emulate Cecelia. It's a very scary hole to get into and I can't even imagine trying to climb out of it once you got fully entrenched into it. Thank you for sharing your story.
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maicde
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Post by maicde on Sept 30, 2010 13:11:17 GMT -5
I am pretty sure the "huge blessings" for large families are out of pity for the children. They sure can't help it that their parents reproduce like bunnies, but they will be the ones homeless and naked if people don't help out. So people help out, sometimes grudgingly, but always because they have a clear view of what will happen if they don't help out. Someone has to help. The frustrating part is, from the point of view of a compassionate giver, is that the recipients don't seem to get it. We give because their need is greater than their personal ability to meet that need. I think most of us hope that our gifts will be a stop-gap while the adults in the family look for a more permanent solution to their problems. Unfortunately, like the landowner that allowed Cecilia's family to live rent free, the recipients of charity just don't get it. I am sure they knew their generous landlord would die in the near future, but did they prepare? It doesn't sound like it. Reminds me of a religious group that needed millions to renovate an old building to bring it up to code. They kept soliciting funds even though there was no way they could reach the astronomical amount of money they would need to six things up right. Yet every hundred bucks, and every 90 day extension from the county, was treated as if it were a divine miracle. The county stopped hearing from God eventually (snark snark) and all those piddling donations went down the black hole of necessary repairs for no real reason. Sad. I wonder what the true believers made of that? And I wonder what Cecilia will make of it if her next house is too small, too expensive, or otherwise inadequate for her continually growing family? Just another cross to bear for Jesus, rather than the logical conclusion of too many children and not enough money? Yes, yes, and yes to every single point in your post! My 47 years on this earth have shown me that everything you said is absolutely true.
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Post by usotsuki on Sept 30, 2010 13:29:27 GMT -5
People think I'm trying to get something for nothing and I actively try NOT to be. Matter of fact I feel guilty when I get a lot of help from others. I just moved a mile and a half uptown from my old place and a friend of mine from out of state helped me with a little money for food, bedding to replace what I couldn't get from the old apartment due to no transportation, and says she'll get me some furniture - I kept telling her I was feeling bad because she was doing so much for me as I was told that I shouldn't need to ask for or receive anything from anyone!
(Keep in mind, I'm not nor have ever been even *middle* class, but have done reasonably well at faking it.)
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Post by humbletigger on Sept 30, 2010 15:34:49 GMT -5
When I was living on a minimum wage job, I relied on donations of clothing, furniture, anything really that might benefit my life. I was working two and even three jobs to do my best to meet all my own needs.
I wasn't staying out of the work place for religious reasons, and I didn't pretend that being poor made me holier than anyone else. I pretty much worked, went to church, did laundry and dishes and that's about all I had time for.
Cecelia is out of the workforce for religious reasons, and continually having more children for religious reasons also. I was just on a QF web site yesterday where a woman claims that God will always provide for you no matter how many children you have.
And in some ways it's true, if you credit all the good deeds of people and government programs to God and write off all the unmet needs as not genuine needs because no one died from lack.
People need to let go of their magical thinking. It's not faith, it's tempting God. I don't see much difference between handling snakes because a scripture says that won't hurt believers and eschewing birth control to procreate continually because a scripture calls children a blessing. In both cases, people of faith are "trusting" that because they are "obedient" God will miraculously intervene if/when things go poorly for them.
That's very different from working hard and still not being able to make ends meet, or having generous friends who like to bless you with special gifts you could not afford on your own.
It's not that Celia's poor that irks, it's that Celia is doing nothing to meet her own family's financial need while continually adding to the had count that will need fed, clothed, etc. That's what irks: her expectation that (God) others will do for her what she refuses to do for her self-namely plan ahead for a secure future in which she makes sure the needs are met.
But I've already been through this discussion once on another thread, and it seems I'm not that good at communicating the difference between someone needing help in spite of all the best laid plans and effort, and someone needing help because they have no plan beyond "see what turns up" and feeling self-righteous about it to boot.
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maicde
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Post by maicde on Sept 30, 2010 17:21:54 GMT -5
People think I'm trying to get something for nothing and I actively try NOT to be. Matter of fact I feel guilty when I get a lot of help from others. I just moved a mile and a half uptown from my old place and a friend of mine from out of state helped me with a little money for food, bedding to replace what I couldn't get from the old apartment due to no transportation, and says she'll get me some furniture - I kept telling her I was feeling bad because she was doing so much for me as I was told that I shouldn't need to ask for or receive anything from anyone! (Keep in mind, I'm not nor have ever been even *middle* class, but have done reasonably well at faking it.) Your story and Cecelia's are not the same animal. Many of us go through times in our life where we need a helping hand. Thank goodness for people who are willing to lend a helping hand as well as social programs that provide a safety net for those times when one needs it. Cecelia and her husband go through life relying on the "kindness of strangers" (and God) to get them through everything, for their every need while they continue to have child after child knowing that they cannot support the children themselvs. I don't remember where it said to do that in the bible. I think that these people twist the bible to say whatever they want it to say. I hope that this thread doesn't turn all twisted and contorted because there is no way that the original poster said anything closely remote to what you are talking about. You might feel guilty for being in need or accepting a bit of help; that is not what she is talking about and I know that it sure isn't what I'm talking about either. I know people like Cecelia and they aren't like you. I know the difference plain and clear.
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Post by kisekileia on Sept 30, 2010 18:08:42 GMT -5
I truly think that when you literally EXPECT for certain things to come to you, they do. Of course, they will deny that they had anything to do with it, they will attribute their "gifts and blessings" from the Lord, and maybe it is because they believe it to be so. Call it whatever you will; it is still the same. Whether one believes they can manifest things or whether one believes that it will come from a higher source; the fact of the matter is that our thoughts and prayers and intentions have more power in our life than what we're led to believe by conventional teachings. Do you have any idea how insulting this belief system (the "law of attraction", The Secret, or whatever you want to call it) is to people who DON'T get what they need? If you believe this, you are guilty of the same sort of magical thinking as families like Cecelia's. The problem with what you said is that it logically means that if people DON'T get what they need, they must not have had enough faith. If it were true that everyone who really intends to get things does, there would be a LOT less suffering in the world. Your belief that unmet needs are the result of inadequate faith is insulting and degrading to anyone who has ever had an unmet need, and it is completely unworthy of someone who claims to be outside the QF mentality.
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Post by arietty on Sept 30, 2010 21:00:06 GMT -5
Shelley you do remind me of me in my friendships of the past quite a bit. I gradually realized that with people like Cecelia their complete inability to uphold a friendship the way other people do is because they don't actually need you at all, not you personally and not anyone else either. I got to the point of depersonalizing it by looking at the Cecelia Person's life and seeing that they did not actually have any normal, mutual friendships. It wasn't about me and my perceived inadequacies, it was about THEM not being friendship people in the first place, for whatever reasons. And so they go through the purely social etiquette motions of saying they missed you, how lovely to hear from you, they look fwd to catching up.. and it's just a puff of air.
I'm glad you feel you are out from under the bondage that Cecelia exuded as an expectation of good christianity but I do think you need to drop any expectations and hope for a mutual give and take normal friendship with her. If you have never seen her in this kind of friendship with anyone else it's not going to magically happen between the two of you.
In the last few years I have made some really healthy normal friendships and it has made me look back at how ridiculous some of these so called friendships I strived for in the past were. For one thing if you are always striving and wringing your hands over whether the person will respond to your overtures this is not a healthy adult friendship and it's not going to transform into one through any change of circumstances or renewed effort on your part.
I'm not sure when you wrote that piece--are you still pregnant with your fifth? Congratulations! Have you moved to Penn yet? I hope you like it better there. If I had to look for a church now I would probably do the opposite of what I've done in the past and try a really big one, just to expand my friendship possibilities and to have perhaps more diverse people in the congregation.
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Post by arietty on Sept 30, 2010 21:12:42 GMT -5
As to the "blessings" of everyone helping certain families well.. they tend to be quite verbal about their needs and it is as simple as that sometimes. I know at one point the church I was in was paying all the bills for a single parent who was fully employed and had one child.. she was always in a financial disaster with utilities being threatened to be cut off. Everyone knew about her difficulties because she talked about them ALL the time. At the time I was a single parent with 6 kids, on government benefits.. I did have a deacon come to me and ask if I needed bills paid and I said no, because I was a perfectly good budgeter and I had never had trouble paying them myself. Looking at the other mom I did not feel any jealousy over this, I felt sorry for her because she was fairly manic and clearly had huge boundaries issues which led to financial disasters.. though she might not have needed help on paper if you looked at her incoming and outgoing financial facts she DID need help in reality because she could not take care of her own life. (And yes someone did spend a lot of time helping her with budgeting, setting up payment plans etc..)
A single parent friend of mine with four kids has gotten free vacations, cars, clothes, rent, food, home repair, appliances.. really just about EVERYTHING you could spend money on from churches and friends over the years and it all comes down to her constant talking about her needs and to her direct asking of well off people for things (like, "can we please use your beach house for a week for free we really need a vacation"). She once told me she found it very very difficult to ask anyone for help and I burst out laughing to her face, LOLOL. She just has a completely outgoing personality and tells everyone about every single thing in her life.. and I am the complete opposite. And that's fine because frankly some of the nasty crap that has come back to her with people expecting spiritual things from her based on them having given her a washing machine or whatever is IMHO not worth all this "care". When people tell you your children really need to go to their youth group because they helped your family.. well I would rather do without than deal with those kinds of people.
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Post by madame on Oct 1, 2010 5:48:27 GMT -5
Shelley you do remind me of me in my friendships of the past quite a bit. I gradually realized that with people like Cecelia their complete inability to uphold a friendship the way other people do is because they don't actually need you at all, not you personally and not anyone else either. I got to the point of depersonalizing it by looking at the Cecelia Person's life and seeing that they did not actually have any normal, mutual friendships. It wasn't about me and my perceived inadequacies, it was about THEM not being friendship people in the first place, for whatever reasons. And so they go through the purely social etiquette motions of saying they missed you, how lovely to hear from you, they look fwd to catching up.. and it's just a puff of air. . Arietty, I haven't experienced that sort of friendship yet. I have friends whom I keep in touch with more than others because our friendship is deeper. I have one friend who hasn't ever called me (we moved to a different country and she didn't) but I call her and she always says it's great to hear from me. Should I worry that it's all a puff of air? She doesn't need me, but I don't need her either, still, I choose to be her friend and she chooses to be mine. I do the calling because she doesn't like picking up the phone and calling, but she has sent me little gifts and is always happy to talk with me unless she has to do something else. I also have friends whom I don't hear from (they don't hear from me either), but if we see each other, we are very happy to catch up, and we are genuinely interested in each other. It's just that we don't communicate that much. It's very possible that Cecilia is simply very wrapped up in her life. I get wrapped up in mine and don't visit people for months! She may also communicate little because she isn't really that happy. It may be that this poor woman is caught up in the hell that many on here are happy they got out of, and sees no other way to endure her life but to plaster on a smile and talk about how good God is. She may have tremendously low self-esteem, and makes up for it by boasting. We don't know, so I don't think it's right to judge her as some aloof personality who is so full of herself that she doesn't need anyone.
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Post by journey on Oct 1, 2010 20:38:13 GMT -5
It's not Denny Keneston's church, is it? I know they're in PA (Charity Gospel Tape Ministries, etc), and...... I'd say they definitely fit into the Legalism-R-Us camp (all in the name of grace and holiness, of course)...
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Post by ShellyC on Oct 2, 2010 21:20:29 GMT -5
Hmmm, it may be the Charity church. Sounds familar. No, I have not heard from Cecilia since that day. She has my number/address etc. Her number has been disconnected. I have tried a couple years ago. I have found a new number online with her husbands name. It appears they are still in the same state. Yes, I am tepted to call just to see what is new. As to an update...I blog almost daily about my life. If you click on my about me page/North/South..they have updates. My 5th is 3 years old, almost 4 in fact! She was my last. Here is my personal blog for anyone who cares for an update. It has been nice to be able to share my story. www.yankeegalscafe.com
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maicde
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Post by maicde on Oct 6, 2010 10:09:38 GMT -5
I truly think that when you literally EXPECT for certain things to come to you, they do. Of course, they will deny that they had anything to do with it, they will attribute their "gifts and blessings" from the Lord, and maybe it is because they believe it to be so. Call it whatever you will; it is still the same. Whether one believes they can manifest things or whether one believes that it will come from a higher source; the fact of the matter is that our thoughts and prayers and intentions have more power in our life than what we're led to believe by conventional teachings. Do you have any idea how insulting this belief system (the "law of attraction", The Secret, or whatever you want to call it) is to people who DON'T get what they need? If you believe this, you are guilty of the same sort of magical thinking as families like Cecelia's. The problem with what you said is that it logically means that if people DON'T get what they need, they must not have had enough faith. If it were true that everyone who really intends to get things does, there would be a LOT less suffering in the world. Your belief that unmet needs are the result of inadequate faith is insulting and degrading to anyone who has ever had an unmet need, and it is completely unworthy of someone who claims to be outside the QF mentality. No, I don't know how insulting it is because quite frankly, I have no clue what you're talking about in the sense that you apparently have no clue what I'm talking about either.
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maicde
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Post by maicde on Oct 6, 2010 10:10:22 GMT -5
Hmmm, it may be the Charity church. Sounds familar. No, I have not heard from Cecilia since that day. She has my number/address etc. Her number has been disconnected. I have tried a couple years ago. I have found a new number online with her husbands name. It appears they are still in the same state. Yes, I am tepted to call just to see what is new. As to an update...I blog almost daily about my life. If you click on my about me page/North/South..they have updates. My 5th is 3 years old, almost 4 in fact! She was my last. Here is my personal blog for anyone who cares for an update. It has been nice to be able to share my story. www.yankeegalscafe.comThank you, Shelly.
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Post by kisekileia on Oct 7, 2010 9:57:41 GMT -5
Do you have any idea how insulting this belief system (the "law of attraction", The Secret, or whatever you want to call it) is to people who DON'T get what they need? If you believe this, you are guilty of the same sort of magical thinking as families like Cecelia's. The problem with what you said is that it logically means that if people DON'T get what they need, they must not have had enough faith. If it were true that everyone who really intends to get things does, there would be a LOT less suffering in the world. Your belief that unmet needs are the result of inadequate faith is insulting and degrading to anyone who has ever had an unmet need, and it is completely unworthy of someone who claims to be outside the QF mentality. No, I don't know how insulting it is because quite frankly, I have no clue what you're talking about in the sense that you apparently have no clue what I'm talking about either. The "law of attraction" is another term for the idea that "when you literally EXPECT for certain things to come to you, they do", which is heavily promoted in a book called "The Secret". Sorry, I didn't expect that as an adherent of that idea you would be unfamiliar with the terminology and literature promoting it.
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Post by usotsuki on Oct 7, 2010 16:59:28 GMT -5
Prosperity gospel in disguise. I don't dig it. Matter of fact, I've been *expecting* all hell to break loose for years and have been fortunate enough that only *some* hell has broken loose. XD
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Post by juliacat on Oct 8, 2010 8:28:15 GMT -5
I've been thinking, when you're dependent on other people for charity, you lose your choice. I would not WANT other people to make the decision about where I live, what I drive, what I eat, what clothes my kids wear. I want to provide for them so I can make those choices. So it's not so much that I think of those things as "blessings," especially not when the people receiving the "blessings" had the choice to begin with. (It would be different if something sudden and non-preventable happened to them despite their best efforts.) I can't imagine choosing to live in a way that would make me dependent on charity. I wouldn't enjoy it at all.
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Post by arietty on Oct 8, 2010 17:15:33 GMT -5
I've been thinking, when you're dependent on other people for charity, you lose your choice. I would not WANT other people to make the decision about where I live, what I drive, what I eat, what clothes my kids wear. I want to provide for them so I can make those choices. So it's not so much that I think of those things as "blessings," especially not when the people receiving the "blessings" had the choice to begin with. (It would be different if something sudden and non-preventable happened to them despite their best efforts.) I can't imagine choosing to live in a way that would make me dependent on charity. I wouldn't enjoy it at all. Yes well for one thing if people give you stuff, especially big stuff like a place to live they have a tendency to feel invested in what kind of living/use you are making out of their "blessing". Believe me my friend who has been heavily dependent on the "blessings" of christians in the past has felt the sting of this, whether lightly in the form of prying and comments or full blown meddling in her family being the payoff someone expects. A couple of really awful situations when she was younger with christians who liked to "rescue" people and then control them. I've always had finely tuned radar for that kind of subtext so have pretty much avoided this kind of "help".. my friend was always more positive about people and trusting and it has taken her about 20 years to see these kinds of subtle agendas which is sad. Now the flip side of this: if YOU are the giver, the one who generously offers food, appliances, a place to stay, a car.. please try and see your gift as something without strings and without expectations on your part. Give it, be happy the receiver is happy and let go of it. If that person you gave it to still needs help a month later, still has problems, don't list your gift as something that should have pulled them out of their bad choices. It wasn't a gift then, it was an investment in fixing someone. It had conditions. Some people will not be moving out of their poor life choices for decades--there is nothing wrong with being kind to people along the way.
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Post by madame on Oct 9, 2010 3:26:51 GMT -5
Now the flip side of this: if YOU are the giver, the one who generously offers food, appliances, a place to stay, a car.. please try and see your gift as something without strings and without expectations on your part. Give it, be happy the receiver is happy and let go of it. If that person you gave it to still needs help a month later, still has problems, don't list your gift as something that should have pulled them out of their bad choices. It wasn't a gift then, it was an investment in fixing someone. It had conditions. Some people will not be moving out of their poor life choices for decades--there is nothing wrong with being kind to people along the way. This is very good advice, Arietty. Juliacat, My FIL has insisted on helping us get the things we want, but all this help is only a form of keeping us dependent on him, because he needs my husband to be able to keep living the way he chooses to live. Now, whenever he comes to our house, he either comments on the TV, the washing machine or some piece of (old) furniture he got for us. The comments are subtle, always trying to get us to thank him for having provided for us. But it doesn't stop there, because he keeps demanding that my husband invest his time and money in his (fil's) endeavors. He says he and my husband are a team, that they have to stick together and bla bla bla. I would much rather pay some more money for a few pieces of furniture that I choose rather than let him do it for me and owe him my life. I've turned down many things he has offered me for that reason. I value my freedom.
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Post by asteli on Oct 12, 2010 23:27:37 GMT -5
I know it's somewhat off topic, but as an English major, the way they answer the phone is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE abuse of the English language. It makes me want to beat my head against a brick wall every time I read it. Correspond means to write, for pete's sake!
Back on topic, I dread to think how many "blessings" Cecelia has now. And how much work her older daughters are doing.
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Post by nikita on Oct 12, 2010 23:48:07 GMT -5
I know it's somewhat off topic, but as an English major, the way they answer the phone is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE abuse of the English language. It makes me want to beat my head against a brick wall every time I read it. Correspond means to write, for pete's sake! Back on topic, I dread to think how many "blessings" Cecelia has now. And how much work her older daughters are doing. You know I got sidetracked and never read the last two parts to Shelly's story but when I saw you object to the word 'correspond' I just had to go read it immediately. What an awkward way to answer the telephone! And as you pointed out, completely wrong as well. There is nothing that sounds so ignorant as someone who uses the wrong large word like that. It just makes her sound ridiculous. People are so strange. I would not have called her after all those years of silence. Her asking for your address and phone as though you had been out of touch and had not been on the receiving end of the silence (she knew where to find you!) and then just sending a picture with no personal note of any kind really struck a chord with me. That is so like my old friends, who when I contacted them were all happy sounding to hear from me even though they were the ones who moved away and I was the one who was right where they left me if they wanted to talk to me all this time. And one of my old best friends would send me an impersonal Christmas letter every year with a family photo of her growing family but never ink one single personal note to me or ask about me or call me -- it was all about letting me know how she was doing and all the things God was doing in her life, with no reciprocity whatsoever. That whole convo with Cecelia really brought that back to me in a bad way. If I had it to do over I would never have talked to my old friends again, knowing now the power they still have to hurt me. It has taken a year to recover from it and I'm just getting over it now. Never again will I put myself in that position with them. In the Lord's hands? Sure, I'll leave them there and wish them well. But not anywhere near me, thanks ever so.
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