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Post by fledthezoo on May 4, 2009 17:18:08 GMT -5
So nice to find someplace like this....
I grew up in the Quiverfull movement. Oldest of a large family, homeschooled, modest clothing, gardening, canning, once-a-month cooking, etc and so forth. I recognize the names as publications that my mother subscribed to, which even at the age of 11 I referred to as a "bunch of crap," much to my mother's disgust.
My husband grew up similarly, though not with as large a family.
Grew up, went to college, majored in all kinds of liberal arts stuff, became agnostic, wound up in a completely unfeminine profession, waited until my late 20s to get married, and do not want kids. And of the people I knew who grew up in the same culture I did, this is typical.
Now I discover that my wonderful husband's parents automatically assumed that because of my background we would be leading a similar/conservative/quiverfull life. The current uproar is over the fact that they just discovered that I kept my last name upon marriage. My theory is that I have numerous degrees and professional licenses under my name, and saw no reason to go through the hassle of changing it. My husband doesn't care what I do with my name, as long as I don't change his.
So I am hoping this is someplace I can relax and vent when I need too. It is harder than you might think, trying to find your way as an adult and determining what it means to be a wife and potentially a mother, when this is the culture you grew up in and know. Somewhere, deep inside, there is still a place where I feel like I am not living up to expectations(even though my parents are now out of that culture and support me in all my choices)...
Beth
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Post by coleslaw on May 4, 2009 17:32:25 GMT -5
Welcome, Beth.
I also kept my own name in marriage - 2 marriages in fact. Since I have a son from my first marriage, our family has 3 different last names, and our mail box looked like it belonged to a law firm. I read a biography of Lucy Stone when I was about 10 and decided I was never changing my name.
Certain members of my family are not on board with this. My younger brother makes a point of addressing mail to Mrs. Husband's name. You can imagine my glee when his only daughter got married and kept her own name. It's so much fun being a bad influence.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on May 4, 2009 18:01:09 GMT -5
It's so much fun being a bad influence. LOL, Coleslaw  I once wrote an article for Above Rubies about how wonderful it is for a woman to identify herself as "Mrs. Joe Smith" ~ using not only her married name, but also her husband's first name ~ because, I argued, that is a testimony to the world of God's program for families. The woman loses herself and promotes her husband ~ an example of the way Christ did not seek to draw any attention to himself, but always pointed to the Father. Wish I could find that article ~ I'd love to include it in my Tour de Crap. Welcome, Beth ~ thanks for the intro. Your story is so interesting ~ I hope you will tell us more. Do your parents know that you are now agnostic? Sounds like you never really bought into your parent's QF beliefs ~ but was there a time when you outright rejected the lifestyle ~ "cut the ties" so to speak? I think the variety of perspectives from all the women here is just phenomenal ~ thanks for adding yours to the mix.  |
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Post by rosa on May 4, 2009 18:29:58 GMT -5
Vyckie, women who give up their names completely are the bane of historians and geneologists.
I had a job one time that included computerizing and trying to complete paper cemetery records that had been partially destroyed by fire, using local historical society records and obituaries along with what we had left of the records. It was made even more difficult by the fact that from about 1890-1940 the records were all "Mrs. Joe Smith" - even when there was more than one Mrs. Joe buried in the family plot.
Fled the Zoo, I hope you enjoy it here. I am really interested to hear what you have to say.
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Post by fledthezoo on May 4, 2009 19:39:39 GMT -5
I read that article. It must have been as a teenager. I remember it because I specifically stated to my mom after reading it that I thought it was silly, and that my identity would never be wrapped up in some man's.
I think her response was that if it bothered me so much, I should stop reading the magazine.
My parents are aware of my beliefs. They are far out of that lifestyle now, though, so it isn't the big deal it once would have been. My response when asked about my religious beliefs is that if it weren't for Christians, I would be a Christian(a slight misquoting of Ghandi).
There was no real cutting of the ties. I suppose, if you wanted to pinpoint one, it would the "failed courtship" I experienced at seventeen, with the main issue being his parents' disapproval of the fact that I was headed to college and wanted to be an attorney(I became a firefighter-paramedic instead, which my ex-boyfriend's parents also very much disapprove of). After that, I kind of looked at the whole thing and said, this is totally a bunch of ****.
But there were signs all along. My younger sister and I used to attempt to intercept "Gentle Spirit" at the mailbox and destroy it when we were about 11 and 8. We thought it was of the devil.
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Post by jemand on May 4, 2009 19:41:11 GMT -5
welcome fledthezoo! I hope you enjoy it here!
The one reservation I have with not changing my name at marriage is the custom the children will then only have their father's name, not mine. I'm not completely at peace with that idea but neither am I happy with the idea of hyphenation or changing my name, so I'll have to go with "least bad" option.
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Post by jemand on May 4, 2009 19:50:06 GMT -5
But there were signs all along. My younger sister and I used to attempt to intercept "Gentle Spirit" at the mailbox and destroy it when we were about 11 and 8. We thought it was of the devil. NICE! I like that mental image lol  |
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on May 4, 2009 19:54:28 GMT -5
But there were signs all along. My younger sister and I used to attempt to intercept "Gentle Spirit" at the mailbox and destroy it when we were about 11 and 8. We thought it was of the devil. LOL ~ you crack me up! Well, I'm so glad you didn't fall for my Above Rubies article ~ what garbage, huh? To my way of thinking Q.D. (Quivering Days) ~ to completely lose ones identity would be the purest form of godliness. My kids never went for it either ~ which was frustrating to me back when I believed it ~ but I'm so glad now, because it made leaving a heck of a lot easier than it would have been otherwise. |
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linnea
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by linnea on May 4, 2009 20:39:09 GMT -5
Welcome, Fledthezoo!
I didn't change my name either. The handy thing about that is, when you get a phone call for "Mrs. His-Last-Name", you know they're trying to sell you something.
I have a job where I'm in public a lot, and people who know me sometimes meet my husband and call him "Mr. My-Last-Name", which makes us laugh.
We gave our kids his last name, but they each have my last name as a second middle name, so if they ever want to start using it, it is part of their official legal name.
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Post by fledthezoo on May 4, 2009 20:49:07 GMT -5
If we decide to have children, they'll have my last name as a second middle name. I think it bothers my husband that I don't have his last name a bit, so I don't usually correct people when they call me Mrs.-His-Last-Name. I use my last name in all areas of my life, so I assume that if someone is going to know me for a while, they will figure it out.
I am not kidding. We really hated Gentle Spirit. My mom never figured out why so many of her issues never showed up. She was forever calling them for replacements. I think she thought the mailman was stealing them; little does she know they are buried in the pet cemetary where we buried all the dead things we found. We did not, however, hold funerals for the magazines.
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Post by grandmalou on May 5, 2009 8:54:40 GMT -5
(((Hugs))) to one more who is deserving of hugs...there are a lot of us here who could use one!
Welcome, 'fledthezoo'!
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Post by grandmalou on May 5, 2009 9:08:25 GMT -5
If we decide to have children, they'll have my last name as a second middle name. I think it bothers my husband that I don't have his last name a bit, so I don't usually correct people when they call me Mrs.-His-Last-Name. I use my last name in all areas of my life, so I assume that if someone is going to know me for a while, they will figure it out. I am not kidding. We really hated Gentle Spirit. My mom never figured out why so many of her issues never showed up. She was forever calling them for replacements. I think she thought the mailman was stealing them; little does she know they are buried in the pet cemetary where we buried all the dead things we found. We did not, however, hold funerals for the magazines. These posts this morning crack me up!!! LOL Pet cemeteries for 'dead magazines"? Hee hee! Keeping your own name...what a novel idea...although I am proud of my dear husband and feel blessed to have him, signing my name (his name) is such a pain in the toosh! So I have chopped it down to LA...short for Louise Annette, because there is just not enough room in most forms...like checks? for the entire alphabet. I would like to change mine to 'King'...my grandfather's last name...nice little four letter word...and furthermore, since he was part Creek Indian, the word itself meant what that tribe called their chiefs...Micco...or "King"...Hmmmm...and they were matriarchal to boot... |
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Post by stampinmama on May 5, 2009 9:37:59 GMT -5
Welcome Fledthezoo! It sounds like you and I have a lot in common, though I'm not agnostic. When I got married, I looked forward to taking my husband's last name...not because I wanted to lose my identity to promote his, but because I was so emotionally and mentally hurt by my parents (especially my father) that I wanted to be far removed from that last name. Like your parents, mine are so different than what they once were. There are times when I actually wish I could have my maiden name back, only because my MIL is a psychopath and wish I could distance myself from that. Fortunately, we live FAR away from my inlaws, so I have reminded myself that people here don't know my inlaws and don't connect our last name with a psycho woman. We can create a whole new connotation with our last name here. I also sometimes feel bad that my maiden name will most likely die out because my brothers will probably never have kids. My father was one of two siblings and the only boy. My grandparents immigrated to the US from Germany and if my brothers don't have children, the name will die out. Then there's other times when I've wished that my husband and I could just create our own last name, not connected to either family, but unique to us. My grandmother (on my mom's side) was very much a feminist and was insistent that when I sent letters or cards to her house, that they be addressed to Mrs. & Mr. Beth Thompson. I don't view myself as Mrs. David Martin. I view myself as Erika Martin. I'm not merely an extension of my husband. I'm an equal partner. I don't even like being called Mrs. Martin and make sure that when kids at my kids' school call me Mrs. Martin, that I tell them to call me Mrs. Erika or just plain Erika. I very rarely get called Mrs. Martin outside of the school, though. It seems so foreign to me. Oh....and I tried to intercept the Gentle Spirit mags when they came in so that I could dispose of them, too. It seemed that every time one arrived, I was made to read more scripture, made to do something else that didn't pertain to my salvation, but was somehow intricately linked to it in my father's mind and had yet another liberty stolen from me. |
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Post by xara on May 5, 2009 10:35:19 GMT -5
Welcome.
I am 38 and have never been married, but I sometimes get phone calls asking for Mrs. S. I then know it is a sales call and have to explain to the caller that the proper form of address for any adult female is Ms., unless she specifically requests to be called something different. Also Mrs. S. was my grandmother who died last year but that she never lived in this house.
My boyfriend and I both have issues with the whole idea of marriage. We have discussed the name change issue though and agree that I would not change my name. He would be willing to change his except that he would then have the same name as someone on TV that he doesn't wish to be associated with.
I don't blame him. As is when I am introduced to someone I always have to endure, "Oh, any relation to ____?" because my name rhymes with that persons name. What makes it worse is that person's name was actually my grandfather's name. I have only gotten this response in the last decade or so since this person became infamous and everyone thinks they are being funny and unique when they come up with the "joke."
When I was growing up it was, "Oh, so you're ______'s kid." My dad is a well known attorney in the city I grew up in and his side of the family is huge there. We have our own page in the phone book there are so many of us.
Again, welcome.
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Post by arietty on May 5, 2009 18:10:44 GMT -5
With my first marriage I kept my name.. for a few years. That is because I actually considered myself a feminist when I got married. Unfortunately my conversion to christianity and my eventual and gradual conversion to fundamentalism ground all that out of me and I ended up using my husband's name. It was also extremely rare for a woman to use her own name where I was and it caused endless problems and explanations. I reverted to my own name as soon as I was separated. However once I remarried I happily took my husband's name for a few reasons:
1. I liked his name MUCH better, the sound of it.
2. I had never felt comfortable with my last name, had been teased intensely about it at school.
3. I intended to have children with my second husband I didn't want 3 names in the family.
But mainly it was cosmetic, LOL.
Oh and welcome FledtheZoo, I am looking forward to your perspectives and posts!! I did have to laugh though at the thought of Cheryl posting out endless extra copies of GS because of children destroying it. I actually loved that magazine because the homesteading stuff was so lovely and useful.. but I was not being made to do any of it!
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Post by ismist on May 5, 2009 18:42:39 GMT -5
I am about to be married and both of us are changing our names to a combination of each of our last names. Not hyphenated, a completely new name. This is easy to do in California, as long as the name follows certain requirements.
I truly feel moved by the idea of changing my name to represent the new, blended family I am creating with my spouse. I think being married should cause a change of identity (not a loss!) for both parties. For myself, I would be uncomfortable with not sharing a name with my spouse, or having a child with a different name from mine.
I can see how some people with different ideas about the relationship of the individual to marriage might want to keep their own names (in which case, I see no reason why the children's names should default to the father's). But from my view of marriage as a union, it's the tradition of the woman taking the man's name that turns name change into something oppressive and patriarchial rather than potently symbolic. (Actually it's still potently symbolic, just symbolizing things I find distasteful.)
My future spouse's family is concerned about their family name dying out, but this just doesn't hold weight with me. Their family lives on in our future child so why is the name the important part?
Actually, I would be extremely disappointed if our future child did not continue our tradition, and create a new name for their family when (if) they choose to marry. So our new family name is only for us, and will end with us, which seems totally appropriate to me, since each generation is a blending into something new, with ties to the past, but not tied to it.
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aimai
Full Member
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Post by aimai on May 5, 2009 18:55:36 GMT -5
I kept my name because I like it better than his and I'm proud of my own family history. But I tried to get him to agree to create a shared name from our two names (because I though hyphenating would be hell) and I came up with some pretty hysterical anagrams which I can no longer remember. I also proposed that we essentially throw the choice to the person who "moved first to make the marriage happen" which is to say that we were in a long distance relationship for four years and I had a pretty good sense that eventually I would make a career sacrifice to move to be in the same city with him. So I planned to get him to agree hypothetically to a "deal" in which the first person to make a serious sacrfiice for the relationship got to give his/her last name to the other person. But I couldn't get him to agree in theory so by the time we actually were going to get married we didn't have an agreement in place. So the kids, alas, have his last name which is hard to spell and unusual so I spend my entire life spelling it very.slowly.to.people.over.the.phone.
aimai
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Post by barbaraw on May 5, 2009 19:35:21 GMT -5
My soon-to-be-ex and I actually have a hyphenated name. I really both liked and loved the guy I married. I wonder what happened to him. . . . We're both going back to our maiden names after the divorce is final. Our son will keep both of our names as a hyphenate. My stbe and my dbil went to high school with a guy who won over his Japanese-American fil by taking his wife's family name, outright, when they got married. I'm not sure how extensive the "death" of the surname was, but his fil's feeling was that the name was "dying" so when dbil's friend offered to take it, his fil was thrilled. |
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Post by tapati on May 5, 2009 21:17:18 GMT -5
Welcome, Fledthezoo! Good for you. I love the idea of intercepting magazines and burying them. What a great idea. Regarding names...my husband and I chose a completely new last name and we both changed our names. Works for us. |
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Post by rosa on May 6, 2009 10:17:56 GMT -5
The "families should all have the same last name" thing falls apart with divorces and remarriage - my mom got remarried, so she doesn't have the same last name as I do.
Since we're not married, we were going to pick a third last name for our son but we never could find one we both liked. So we went with my last name - my partner's family is Polish and his last name is really long and hard to spell. Mine is shorter and more common, but still spelled oddly (I have the Danish version of a common English/Swedish/Danish surname - all very common in the upper Midwest) but I was raised with just enough anti-Polish bigotry that I still think his name sounds weirder.
The funny thing is, it is *my* family that freaked out over my son having my last name. "Give that baby a name!" Uh, he has one.
I'm going to guess that between the single parents and the divorced parents and the parents from cultures where women add names but don't give up their original surname, maybe half of the kid's at my son's daycare have the same last name as both parents.
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Post by jadehawk on May 6, 2009 12:35:31 GMT -5
welcome, FledtheZoo! the fact that both you and your husband got out of QF despite being born into it makes me hopeful that more QF children will be able to make choices for themselves, rather than just being herded into their parents belief :-)
as for the name-changing thing... it can be a pain, alright! When I got married (long story, it was mostly utilitarian, since we were living in 2 different countries and neither of us could move to the other's country without being married first), I changed my name. primarily, it was cosmetic because my own last name was very long and everybody misspelled it and with my long first name, it didn't sound good and didn't ever fit onto any forms. It also helped convince the INS (now Homeland Security) that I didn't just get married for a green card. However, after we got married, it bothered me to no end to be suddenly reduced to "X's wife" or "Mrs X". It was as if I lost a part of my own personality.
now we're divorced, but I kept my new name because I still like it more than my old one. but now it's all mine, and it doesn't feel like I'm losing any part of myself by using it. the only problem might come around if I ever decide to marry again (not likely, unless the boyfriend and I decide to move to Germany), because I don't want to go back to my old name, and the boyfriend's last name sucks :-p
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Post by jadehawk on May 6, 2009 12:38:58 GMT -5
I'm going to guess that between the single parents and the divorced parents and the parents from cultures where women add names but don't give up their original surname, maybe half of the kid's at my son's daycare have the same last name as both parents. that reminds me of the stories of how Icelandic families always get in trouble with immigration/customs because no-one in a family has the same "last name", since Icelanders don't actually have last names, they have patronymics! :-p |
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I once wrote an article for Above Rubies about how wonderful it is for a woman to identify herself as "Mrs. Joe Smith" ~ using not only her married name, but also her husband's first name ~ because, I argued, that is a testimony to the world of God's program for families. The woman loses herself and promotes her husband ~ an example of the way Christ did not seek to draw any attention to himself, but always pointed to the Father. Wish I could find that article ~ I'd love to include it in my Tour de Crap.
