Post by phoenix on May 26, 2009 15:54:40 GMT -5
I’ve been lurking on the blog/ forum since its early days and I suppose it’s about time to introduce myself. If I haven’t BTDT (and trying to get over it) myself I’ve witnessed it. I’m a 50ish, married, mom of 8. Both husband and I raised Roman Catholic, me by a divorced mom- totally uninvolved dad and husband in an intact, reasonably functional family. I can see how my interests in mothering, homemaking, rural living, gardening, homeschooling, etc. when combined later with moving from standard run of the mill evangelical Christianity to a much narrower, narrower road helped lead our family to where we journey today.
The pivotal event I recall that turned the tide was when I encountered the book Full Quiver by the Hesses. I felt at opposition to what I felt was the societal undercurrent shall we say of careerism for women with mothering if chosen at all was a one to maybe three (and that was extreme) child journey. Tho’ in the fellowship we were in at the time you could have up to maybe 4 children before you might have been viewed as extreme. That book led to Mary Pride’s The Way Home (Anybody have an idea what I should do with my autographed copy? Full Quiver has hit the burn barrel but I still have The Way Home somewhere.) Eventually it was HELP for Growing Families, Gentle Spirit etc. My fave was GS—loved the homesteady emphasis and thought the editor was respectful and affirming (still do!) not like her “competitor” (and later defendant) who always struck me as a self righteous snark.. It was through these publications that we started getting tapes from a particular church in PA. It was through the influence of those tapes my husband and I eventually sold our home in a large, urban city (husband quit his job) and we ventured out in faith and “obedience.”
A few words about my husband—I’ve discussed him a little bit in Vyckie’s Story Pt. 18. He has moderately severe ADHD and always has been attracted to situations/movements that were out of the box, against the societal flow (even Christian society). You take that along with an interest on both of our parts in a more rural , homestead life and a fear that our children were going to end up either dealing drugs or pregnant (like some of the children of the families we went to church with) we were perfect set ups to get involved with what we eventually did get involved in. We were probably also reacting to both of our pasts (my husband’s was primarily drug related--not unusual for someone with undiagnosed ADHD.)
Anyway—we both really tried. My husband, however, never could quite get into the mold. From what I can see the successful QF/Patriarch men either fit one of two types. 1. Controlling pricks that not only controlled their families but others in the fellowship as well. The give and take of control among these men with each other flowed as they supported each other’s agendas as needed. Often these types will move from fellowship to fellowship to home church (family cult) or worse yet start their own thing when they can’t work it out with the other controllers. These dudes are quite common and often hold to some type of pet doctrine or “truth”. I can “siriusly” recall a number like this. 2. Passive men who were controlled by the controlling pricks and often a dominant wife (I originally used the abbreviation “PW” here for dominant but I wanted to make sure everyone understands) although sometimes a passive man will have a submissive wife. A particularly bad combo is a controlling prick with a dominant wife. They can really bring hell on earth into the picture. The combos and variations are numerous—controlling pricks at home but passive to the control of the “brothers” in the fellowship and so on. Unsuccessful QF men are probably more like my husband –willing to venture out of the box, interested in pursuing “truth”, non-conformist, a bit of a rebellious streak. . .
I still get angry when I look back and think of situations my husband and I discussed that we knew were just plain wrong--like the couple who lived in a yurt in the woods in a northern state with their several small children and very few possessions--the husband believed this would better prepare them to serve God in whatever country he felt called to, I can't remember which. He not only required his wife to cover her head, but she also couldn't let any hair show. I could go on and on with more examples. Yet somehow we kept on.
After approximately a dozen years, three moves, and four major fellowships we took another leap of faith and left. This happened after my husband basically decided it was time to stand up and say the emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. (Hope our European friends can understand this reference.) Don’t want to get into the specifics of the situation for brevity but it basically comes under the heading of hypocrisy and pretense.
•I never gave them hell. I just tell the truth, and they think it is hell. Harry S. Truman
This wasn’t the first time my husband did this, that’s why the moves and the different fellowships. But this time had the most disastrous results—all hell broke loose and people were forced to take sides. If it wasn’t against us and our family you had to leave. Old habits are hard to break and so we wandered among similar fellowships for about a year. It was during this time I read the books such as The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, The Shack, and Divine Nobodies. (When I think about how much the super fundies hate The Shack I just smile.) I think I was just starting to begin to think again. . .
It was at this point that things took a drastic turn for us when our #2 son (late teens at the time) informed us that he had a “cyber-friend”, a woman who happened to be 13 or 14 years older and married but they were “just friends” you know. I had noticed that this son who was normally quiet by nature was becoming more withdrawn than ever. Since his cell phone was on our family plan we got a copy of his records. I felt just sick. To say that the amount of time they spent communicating was extreme would be an understatement. I also noticed that when he would speak about his “friend” his eyes would glaze over—how many of you know what I’m talking about? It was like all independent thoughts were being terminated. This is what was scaring me the most. I truly believed that he had already reached the point he would do whatever this woman suggested.
I started scrambling around online looking for suggestions on how to deal with this when I came across the website for a well known treatment facility in the Midwestern U. S.. I recognized the name from some of the reading I did on spiritual abuse and abusive relationships. They treat those who have been victims of psychological, emotional, or spiritual abuse from religious cults, toxic relationships or manipulative groups. One service they offered was family support for those who have a family member in some type of cultic or manipulative relationship.
So, I gave them a call and after pouring out my son’s story and also our family’s the counselor told me that my son was easy prey to get involved in a manipulative, controlling relationship because of the group situation he was raised in and basically-- we all needed help.
They offered arrange a workshop weekend for our family (my husband, myself and 3 oldest children) which we attended a year ago. That weekend was just a few days after we were notified by the fellowship we left that we were being excommunicated for bitterness and insubordination.
Again trying to keep this short I’m not going to go into the specifics of the counseling framework used except to say that at one point the counselor said the key to recovery is to regain your sense of self-identity and ability to think critically. I looked at the counselor and said, “What about them?” pointing to my children. She said essentially that they need to discover who they are, what are their likes, dislikes, goals. Also they need to learn to THINK. I learned later that this is supposed to be accomplished beginning in early adolescence. For someone raised in a coercive group who embarks on these tasks as a 21yr old plus adult—they are way behind the eight ball. See here: knappfamilycounseling.com/acocm.html
What about the last year? Son #2 struggled for several months, dumped his entire bank account sneaking off to visit his "friend", and after a trip back to the treatment facility on his own and some more struggles he finally broke it off with the “friend” whereupon she tried to kill herself. As it turned out she was a severe Bi-polar type 1. Thankfully he is doing a lot better now.
The rest of us are trying to re-find ourselves or find ourselves for the first time. You know simple things like re-piercing my ears and putting jewelry back on, cutting my uncut hair and even coloring it (gasp), wearing pants for the 1st time in years (double gasp). It’s even more interesting/challenging watching my daughters explore hair, make-up, fashion, and all the older ones look at education and career options.
We’ve only made a couple feeble attempts in the church dept--both more unstructured situations. I basically won’t go—both places are a still on the indie/fundie side and I can’t handle it. I’ve thrown out the bathwater and trust the baby can take care of himself on the shelf while I spend time THINKING. I love to read and like thought provoking novels. Any suggestions? Next on my agenda is the novel Middlesex.
I appreciate the fellowship here—you all are facilitating my critical thinking!!
The pivotal event I recall that turned the tide was when I encountered the book Full Quiver by the Hesses. I felt at opposition to what I felt was the societal undercurrent shall we say of careerism for women with mothering if chosen at all was a one to maybe three (and that was extreme) child journey. Tho’ in the fellowship we were in at the time you could have up to maybe 4 children before you might have been viewed as extreme. That book led to Mary Pride’s The Way Home (Anybody have an idea what I should do with my autographed copy? Full Quiver has hit the burn barrel but I still have The Way Home somewhere.) Eventually it was HELP for Growing Families, Gentle Spirit etc. My fave was GS—loved the homesteady emphasis and thought the editor was respectful and affirming (still do!) not like her “competitor” (and later defendant) who always struck me as a self righteous snark.. It was through these publications that we started getting tapes from a particular church in PA. It was through the influence of those tapes my husband and I eventually sold our home in a large, urban city (husband quit his job) and we ventured out in faith and “obedience.”
A few words about my husband—I’ve discussed him a little bit in Vyckie’s Story Pt. 18. He has moderately severe ADHD and always has been attracted to situations/movements that were out of the box, against the societal flow (even Christian society). You take that along with an interest on both of our parts in a more rural , homestead life and a fear that our children were going to end up either dealing drugs or pregnant (like some of the children of the families we went to church with) we were perfect set ups to get involved with what we eventually did get involved in. We were probably also reacting to both of our pasts (my husband’s was primarily drug related--not unusual for someone with undiagnosed ADHD.)
Anyway—we both really tried. My husband, however, never could quite get into the mold. From what I can see the successful QF/Patriarch men either fit one of two types. 1. Controlling pricks that not only controlled their families but others in the fellowship as well. The give and take of control among these men with each other flowed as they supported each other’s agendas as needed. Often these types will move from fellowship to fellowship to home church (family cult) or worse yet start their own thing when they can’t work it out with the other controllers. These dudes are quite common and often hold to some type of pet doctrine or “truth”. I can “siriusly” recall a number like this. 2. Passive men who were controlled by the controlling pricks and often a dominant wife (I originally used the abbreviation “PW” here for dominant but I wanted to make sure everyone understands) although sometimes a passive man will have a submissive wife. A particularly bad combo is a controlling prick with a dominant wife. They can really bring hell on earth into the picture. The combos and variations are numerous—controlling pricks at home but passive to the control of the “brothers” in the fellowship and so on. Unsuccessful QF men are probably more like my husband –willing to venture out of the box, interested in pursuing “truth”, non-conformist, a bit of a rebellious streak. . .
I still get angry when I look back and think of situations my husband and I discussed that we knew were just plain wrong--like the couple who lived in a yurt in the woods in a northern state with their several small children and very few possessions--the husband believed this would better prepare them to serve God in whatever country he felt called to, I can't remember which. He not only required his wife to cover her head, but she also couldn't let any hair show. I could go on and on with more examples. Yet somehow we kept on.
After approximately a dozen years, three moves, and four major fellowships we took another leap of faith and left. This happened after my husband basically decided it was time to stand up and say the emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes. (Hope our European friends can understand this reference.) Don’t want to get into the specifics of the situation for brevity but it basically comes under the heading of hypocrisy and pretense.
•I never gave them hell. I just tell the truth, and they think it is hell. Harry S. Truman
This wasn’t the first time my husband did this, that’s why the moves and the different fellowships. But this time had the most disastrous results—all hell broke loose and people were forced to take sides. If it wasn’t against us and our family you had to leave. Old habits are hard to break and so we wandered among similar fellowships for about a year. It was during this time I read the books such as The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, The Shack, and Divine Nobodies. (When I think about how much the super fundies hate The Shack I just smile.) I think I was just starting to begin to think again. . .
It was at this point that things took a drastic turn for us when our #2 son (late teens at the time) informed us that he had a “cyber-friend”, a woman who happened to be 13 or 14 years older and married but they were “just friends” you know. I had noticed that this son who was normally quiet by nature was becoming more withdrawn than ever. Since his cell phone was on our family plan we got a copy of his records. I felt just sick. To say that the amount of time they spent communicating was extreme would be an understatement. I also noticed that when he would speak about his “friend” his eyes would glaze over—how many of you know what I’m talking about? It was like all independent thoughts were being terminated. This is what was scaring me the most. I truly believed that he had already reached the point he would do whatever this woman suggested.
I started scrambling around online looking for suggestions on how to deal with this when I came across the website for a well known treatment facility in the Midwestern U. S.. I recognized the name from some of the reading I did on spiritual abuse and abusive relationships. They treat those who have been victims of psychological, emotional, or spiritual abuse from religious cults, toxic relationships or manipulative groups. One service they offered was family support for those who have a family member in some type of cultic or manipulative relationship.
So, I gave them a call and after pouring out my son’s story and also our family’s the counselor told me that my son was easy prey to get involved in a manipulative, controlling relationship because of the group situation he was raised in and basically-- we all needed help.
They offered arrange a workshop weekend for our family (my husband, myself and 3 oldest children) which we attended a year ago. That weekend was just a few days after we were notified by the fellowship we left that we were being excommunicated for bitterness and insubordination.
Again trying to keep this short I’m not going to go into the specifics of the counseling framework used except to say that at one point the counselor said the key to recovery is to regain your sense of self-identity and ability to think critically. I looked at the counselor and said, “What about them?” pointing to my children. She said essentially that they need to discover who they are, what are their likes, dislikes, goals. Also they need to learn to THINK. I learned later that this is supposed to be accomplished beginning in early adolescence. For someone raised in a coercive group who embarks on these tasks as a 21yr old plus adult—they are way behind the eight ball. See here: knappfamilycounseling.com/acocm.html
What about the last year? Son #2 struggled for several months, dumped his entire bank account sneaking off to visit his "friend", and after a trip back to the treatment facility on his own and some more struggles he finally broke it off with the “friend” whereupon she tried to kill herself. As it turned out she was a severe Bi-polar type 1. Thankfully he is doing a lot better now.
The rest of us are trying to re-find ourselves or find ourselves for the first time. You know simple things like re-piercing my ears and putting jewelry back on, cutting my uncut hair and even coloring it (gasp), wearing pants for the 1st time in years (double gasp). It’s even more interesting/challenging watching my daughters explore hair, make-up, fashion, and all the older ones look at education and career options.
We’ve only made a couple feeble attempts in the church dept--both more unstructured situations. I basically won’t go—both places are a still on the indie/fundie side and I can’t handle it. I’ve thrown out the bathwater and trust the baby can take care of himself on the shelf while I spend time THINKING. I love to read and like thought provoking novels. Any suggestions? Next on my agenda is the novel Middlesex.
I appreciate the fellowship here—you all are facilitating my critical thinking!!