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Post by verklempt on Sept 7, 2009 16:36:08 GMT -5
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Post by xara on Sept 7, 2009 16:40:50 GMT -5
Welcome. Glad you found us. I hope you like it here.
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Post by coleslaw on Sept 7, 2009 19:37:17 GMT -5
Welcome
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Post by jemand on Sept 7, 2009 19:41:32 GMT -5
welcome!
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Post by krwordgazer on Sept 8, 2009 0:19:28 GMT -5
Welcome, Verklempt!
I'm wondering-- does ATIA have any relationship to the program "Growing Kids God's Way?" I know some people who tried this with their kids; they have since left that church and are raising them much more normally.
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Post by grandmalou on Sept 8, 2009 5:43:15 GMT -5
Readers digest background on me is that I grew up ATIA which is the same program the Duggars live their lives by. The program did not end well for me as it so often doesnt for girls who opt out of that lifestyle. Ive tried to discuss things with my father and he just tells me I need to 'reconcile my past to Christ.' Not so helpful. I married a man who grew up ATIA. His family is in shambles now as well. To be honest, I dont know any second generation ATIA families that stick with the program after they taste life on the outside. Im genuinely happy to see a corner of the web that is telling the truth about what life inside militancy looks like, especially this flavor of it. Thanks for having me. Welcome, Jenny; I'm happy you found us, and know that we all look forward to your story...we all have one or more of them on this forum, don't we? Please tell us, as some may not understand yet, what do the letters ATIA stand for? At any rate, we are happy that you and your dh are now beginning to enjoy a more normal life! Blessings; Grandmalou |
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 8, 2009 7:16:52 GMT -5
Welcome, Jenny ~ so glad to have you here.   |
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Post by jemand on Sept 8, 2009 8:20:18 GMT -5
Atia I believe is run by the Gothard and Botkin group... these people push "intergeneraional faithfulness" and encourage everyone to make a 200 year family plan. Botkin crows that his results in him having over 100,000 "male descendants" living at the end of that time period. He doesn't count the women. He also doesn't understand math lol. 'cuz if he'd carried it forward another 200 years or so it'd be predicting 10 billion SONS of his on the planet.
Sons are the way a family "increases their dominion." Daughters just have kids.
But it doesn't only contain female submission, adult sons are still to submit to their fathers.
Oh yeah, and big on courtship and you shouldn't be hugging or kissing your fiance until you're actually married.
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Post by philosophia on Sept 8, 2009 9:49:36 GMT -5
I believe ATIA is Advanced Training Institutes (of America?). It was formerly Institute In Basic Youth Conflicts, then Institute in Basic Life Principles. It is a Bill Gothard organization. They publish a lot of literature on Character training. I was given some of this literature by friends who were Tooties (Regular Institute Attendees) My assessment of the literature is that Gothard twists scriptural stories to teach whatever he is trying to say. He also relates each principle to something that happens in nature to further cement the acceptance of the teaching. (The Bible, and also Nature teach this, it is undeniable!) The illustrations are even done in a such a way as to seem "persuasive". To me the literature always seemed creepy and cult-like, and the organization based on groupthink. Yet many of my friends were very involved in it, and the meetings were like pep rallies for the lifestyle. It is a mark of how much I disliked the literature that I never attended a rally, because I had many opportunities. People who use this as the core curriculum to home school truly believe character is the most important quality a person can possess. Often the children do learn proper manners and good ethics, but they are also brainwashed. I have known intelligent girls brought up with this curriculum who went on to college and have successful careers. But they no longer live the ATIA lifestyle. Once they left home, they left that lifestyle. No one that I know who was formerly a member still lives that way. Bill Gothard has another organization that he uses to promote character training in the workplace. I am not sure of the name of that organization, but it probably drops a lot of the Biblical references. I believe that the main themes are submission to authorities, and umbrellas of protection. (and of course all the work and moral ethics) The moral purity of the sons and daughters falls under the category of submission to the father/husband or they will lose the 'protection' that the submission provides them by following the laws of God and nature. (He covers all his bases!) This is illustrated with an umbrella. (I guess the rain is the impurity) As long as they are "under authority" they are kept dry. Otherwise they are all wet.  And "Welcome Jenny!" |
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Post by cereselle on Sept 8, 2009 11:43:53 GMT -5
And IIRC, Bill Gothard has never had a wife or children. Shouldn't he be in submission to his parents and let them run things?
Welcome in!
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Post by tapati on Sept 8, 2009 11:49:18 GMT -5
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Post by philosophia on Sept 8, 2009 14:05:29 GMT -5
That is it... In the statement of faith: '' We believe scripture commands Christians to abstain from all compromise with unbelief.'' Wrap your brain around that one! I 'm getting a headache just thinking about it. The war is really an internal one, against our own unbelief. Unbelief is defeated by quoting scripture and a host of other thought stopping methods. Hmmm. The term unbelief in these groups also generally refers to secular or non-Christian ideas. Therefore evolution and even old earth theories are rejected out of hand. And gender roles are carved in stone. |
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Post by verklempt on Sept 10, 2009 13:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by verklempt on Sept 10, 2009 13:37:01 GMT -5
Bill Gothard has another organization that he uses to promote character training in the workplace. I am not sure of the name of that organization, but it probably drops a lot of the Biblical references. Its called 'Character First' and is used a lot in the south. |
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Post by Sierra on Sept 10, 2009 14:25:22 GMT -5
I am constantly amazed at the courageous and inspiring people who have found there way here out of such troubled backgrounds. Kudos to you, Jenny, for escaping and bringing a better life to your new family. Discovering you all are out here has been such a great revelation, especially after hearing over and over again from the "Message" cult I grew up in that everyone who left committed suicide or became a drop-out druggie prostitute who hates god and stabs people. For a long time I was afraid to make the most oblique of statements against William Branham and his followers for fear I'd get hit by a bus on the spot. I hear you on the therapy thing, too. My old pastor used to insist that his sister's professional counselor was always telling her to blame other people for her problems and never take personal responsibility. My mother still repeats this mantra and is apparently afraid of having her brain poisoned with that new-age feminist self-esteem crap.  |
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lectio
Full Member
growing...
Posts: 128
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Post by lectio on Sept 10, 2009 14:36:01 GMT -5
((((hugs))))
So glad you introduced yourself. What a story. It's an important story and needs to be heard. The Gothard $% looks so good on the outside... It's a powerful powerful thing when children raised in that grow up and pull the covers off of what was really happening.
I know healthy families who used Gothard material. Their kids turned out, for hte most part, really well...but that wasn't because of Gothard---it was because the family was actually fairly healthy. Same goes with patriarchal marriages. There are some great ones, but that's not because of patriarchy, it's almost in SPITE of it. They are good marriages because they are made of two healthy people who aren't into power trips and who practice the art of "one anothering" each other...
I've noticed that Vision Forum, Bill Gothard, Ezzo, Pearl and the rest all like to take credit for all the *good* families that follow their practices, but are quick to distance themselves from any negative things that happen to families as a result of their practices. Vedy vedy eentaresting...
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Hillary
Full Member
"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
Posts: 129
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Post by Hillary on Sept 10, 2009 14:58:15 GMT -5
Welcome, Verklempt! I commend you and your husband for breaking the cycle of control and abuse! Be sure to take care of yourself, too--something extremely important and taken waaaaayyy out of context withing extreme movements.
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Post by xara on Sept 19, 2009 16:56:32 GMT -5
Welcome Verklempt. I am glad you got out of that and glad you found us.
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Post by leathercouch on Oct 11, 2009 17:06:54 GMT -5
Hey Jenny, it's Shannon |
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Post by verklempt on Oct 12, 2009 11:01:57 GMT -5
Hey Jenny, it's Shannon Hey Shannon! (this is the friend who referred me to your forum) |
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