sigaliris finally signs in

[sigaliris]

Hello, everyone. I know you better than you know me, because I've been reading the blog with great interest, but never registered. I met a few of you in the chat room during the Carnival. I became aware of Vyckie via Kathryn Joyce's article in Salon, and then her book.

I've never been a Quiverfull person myself, but I spent ten years in a Catholic charismatic "covenant community" that became more and more totalitarian, until by the end they were basically teaching most of the same things the Quiverfull movement taught. My husband and I married at age 20, under pressure from the leaders, and had two children while in the group. I was pregnant with my third when they threw us out for not being submissive enough to all the new teachings they were putting forth. The immediate cause of our jumping ship, or being pushed off the plank, depending on whose version you listen to, was our refusal to shun a friend who had been expelled from the group.

So, there we were, ten years behind our age group, because while they'd been getting educated and finding jobs, we'd been living at subsistence level, spending our spare time doing bible studies and tending the hordes of guests who came to see all the wonderful things God was doing among us. (sarcasm) Our "brothers and sisters" never called us again. ONE person called to see how we were doing. One. The guy who was best man at our wedding called us up specifically to let us know that if he had to choose between us and them, he would choose them, because they were doing God's work and we weren't.

The teachings of this group, and the whole authoritarian system, caused us severe problems with our mental health and our marriage and family, down the road. We were clearly in walkaway shock, and should have had exit counseling, but that didn't really exist back then. Besides, we'd never have been able to admit we were traumatized by a cult. Not then. So, even though we only have four children, I feel as if the women here are speaking my language.

Honestly, I find it pretty scary to sign up here, even under a pseudonym. It's been thirty years since we left, but only a couple of years since I realized I had to leave the Catholic church as well. I've kept so much of my experience a secret. I still feel as if something bad will happen to me if I talk about it. I feel very vulnerable. Maybe some of you can understand that.

[arietty]

sigaliris I've read a bit about those charismatic catholic communities over the years and often they are held up in protestant literature as ideals. When I was first a christian in the early 80's the community thing was on the wane but in my (then) leftwing christian groups people still strove for it and read books about successful communities. Nowadays when I think on such things I automatically assume many had cult like qualities. (I remember reading about one christian community where you had to get permission from everyone else there to have baby.)

What stood out for me in your story is how we often buy into the idea that we are doing a GREAT WORK, something soooo much more worthy than our peers who are going to college, buying cars and houses and furniture.. I remember when I was in my leftwing church the folks who had bought quite nice houses or who drove newer cars were really looked askance at. We were supposed to be putting all our energies into serving the lord and into our community not selfishly pursuing material goods.

Anyway.. it's such a ripoff isn't it. The belief that we have to give up normal life to be spiritual or work for god.

Has that community you were in dissolved or is it still going?

[grandmalou]

Welcome, Sigaliris!
You are so welcome here...this jumped out at me from your post...
" The teachings of this group, and the whole authoritarian system, caused us severe problems with our mental health and our marriage and family, down the road. We were clearly in walkaway shock, and should have had exit counseling, but that didn't really exist back then. Besides, we'd never have been able to admit we were traumatized by a cult. Not then. So, even though we only have four children, I feel as if the women here are speaking my language. "
Yep, there is healing here in this place. I know these women can hear your heart.
Wow...like your whole life is ripped to shreds, huh?

Here's to you...((((HUGS)))) and thank you for sharing with us all.

[sigaliris]

Yes, arietty! For years after we left the group, we felt so at a loss, because here we were, just trying to survive in the world and not committed to some great cause. I felt ashamed that I wasn't serving God any more, and I felt I was worthless. (Of course, the group did a pretty good job of making me feel worthless anyway, so nothing new there, but while I was in, I kept hoping that someday I'd do enough repenting and believing so that I would be worthy!) Our four kids have always been very idealistic, and wanted to do something good for the world. My husband, Mr. Sig, sat down with one of our sons one day and said something like this: "Look, son, if you can genuinely love your family and your friends, and support yourself doing work that makes you feel good, and be a happy and peaceful person, you'll be doing more than 99 percent of people ever manage to do. And if you do just that, it's good enough! You don't need some kind of crusade to make your life meaningful. It's meaningful all by itself. Just live!"

Kinda hard to believe it took so long to figure that out . . . but my theory is (and I'm just full of theories ; ) ) that if you're raised in an abusive way, you do feel very unworthy and as if you have to prove that you deserve to live by making some huge, dramatic sacrifice. So groups like this prey on people who are naturally idealistic, and on people who have been beaten down so they feel as if they have to prove their value. When you have both of those qualities, you might as well paint a target on your head! I know that my very right-wing traditional Catholic childhood softened me up for an even more authoritarian religion, by indoctrinating me with how I was a sinner and could never live up to God's standards.

[sigaliris]

Thanks, grandmalou! You are one of the reasons I wanted to log in and be here. I've been very moved by your journey as an older woman, and how you have cared enough about your children to keep trying for reconciliation with them. And I'm a grandma too. ; ) Also, my father has recently been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, so I'm really sympathizing with and appreciating your posts about your husband's illness. Take care . . . and hugs backatcha.

[arietty]

Sigarliris I am still prone to missing the Great Cause.. I posted in the Why does she Do That? thread about how reading QF literature can sometimes send me back there, and I find myself thinking "that god wants to bless me with another baby and that having one is a mighty work for the lord." Having thought a bit more about that since posting it I realized that the lure was not the baby but the doing a might work for the lord part. The Great Cause. Because basically I have no great cause or even tiny cause now, I just live my life, take care of my kids, try and have good relationships and.. that's it. Even if I'm in the middle of helping someone, even if it's sacrificial on my part to help that person (time, money) I am just dong it because I want to, not because I am part of a Great Cause, not because God has called me to do it.

Really, feeling called to do/be something is a feeling you can never replace once you've seen how dumb it is. I don't miss it all the time, it's just now and then it's complete absence from my life makes me yearn for some great calling to infuse everything with meaning. LOL.

[sigaliris]

Oh, sorry, arietty, I forgot to answer your question. The group we were in was called The Word of God (not pretentious or anything, eh? And the CAPITAL LETTERS--so very important!). It was part of a big "community of communities" called The Sword of the Spirit. We were expelled in late 1978. The group went on its way until, I think, 1991, when a whole bunch of people, including some of the leaders, just snapped, and there was a big split. The larger portion of the group dropped out of The Sword of the Spirit. Some people just quit, and others formed a more loose-knit community with some of the old ways but not the same dominating leadership. The smaller portion stayed loyal to The Sword of the Spirit, which still exists but is much more secretive now. We heard that one of the leaders issued some kind of apology for abuses etc. that had gone on during his leadership. But he never contacted us. His name is Ralph Martin, and he still has a TV show on EWTN and a preaching "ministry" and organization. The guy who still leads The Sword of the Spirit is Steve Clark. IMHO, he's a psychopath. Not that I'm bitter or anything . . . .

[xara]

sigilaris,
Welcome. I am glad you have found us.

I hope to hear more from you.

[phoenix]

Welcome and howdy sigaliris! I want to say I'm glad you posted your intro.--so much of what you said resonated with me. Both Mr. Phoenix and I were raised Catholic and even tho' we left Catholicism right after our marriage and got into more and more extreme Protestant expressions-eventually landing among the Charity Ministries/plain church types of QF/P I can appreciate what you shared. The idealism, needing to prove our value, emphasis on community, oh I could go on and on. When the last group we were part of excommunicated us it was for "not being submissive to the workings of the church" or some such charge.

Also I just want to say that even tho' we have been out for a few years and even had services through Wellspring (treatment for survivors of cultism and controlling, abusive situations/groups/relationships) I still feel I'm recovering and discovering; learning to think (critically) and FEEL!!! Don't be too hard on yourself okay?

BTW, I am a native of MI and several of my mom's childhood BFF's children were part of the Word of God in AA. I assume this is the group to which you are referring?