Post by gloriamarilyn on Apr 18, 2009 0:35:56 GMT -5
Hi there,
I've been lurking and reading your blog now for several weeks, but haven't said anything. I decided to finally introduce myself here.
My name is Gloria, and I live in Manitoba, Canada. I have been married to my best friend, Chad, since August 26, 2006, and we enjoy a very strong Egalitarian marriage, and wouldn't have it any other way. (I have his mom to thank for that- she was a very strong feminist/egalitarian, and raised her son well.
You'll realize why this is so important to me as my story progresses.
I was raised in an extremely restrictive, abusing cult, and so many of the things I have been reading on this blog have hit home for me. Spiritual abuse is really the same, wherever you go. :-(
My faith (or lack thereof) is still constantly changing, and I'm not sure where it will end. It's a bit of a roller coaster ride, but that's ok. Currently, I would classify myself to be on the very liberal end of the spectrum of Christianity. (I hate using the term "Christian" or "Christianity" because of all the abuses associated with it) I suppose the best way to put it is that I do my best to love God, and to follow the spirit of the message of Jesus. Beyond that, as I said, things are constantly in flux.
A little while ago, mainly as a result of reading this blog, I wrote up a bit of a rant, which I'll copy and paste here. It's probably the best way of summing up my story, at least in the context of this blog/forum. So....here we are
I was raised in a somewhat Patriarchal movement. I say somewhat, as there were some very weird twists. Women were given full equality in the church, and female ministers were encouraged and lauded. In situations where the husband was not a member of the church, or was in “bad standing”, the woman also reigned in her household. (with the careful “guidance” and control of the church) In these cases, the husband had to be careful to not say/do anything wrong, lest he be kicked out of his home by his wife/church. Yes, it makes for very weird situations.
However, in the situations where the husband was an upstanding member, there was a strong system of patriarchy in the home. The Husband was the Head, as was so “clearly” dictated by scripture. Everyone had to obey him, and his word was law. (again, provided that his word fit into the Church’s word- the Church always reigned supreme in any case.) In a domestic situation, the woman had very little to say- she was there to be his helpmeet, to bear his children, and to keep his house. She was never to work outside of the home, and was to let him be the Breadwinner for the family.
So yes, I was raised to be the perfect little housewife, to do my husband’s bidding, to bear his children, and to further the glory of The Church. Even when I left The Church, I dabbled in patriarchal groups, where the woman’s role was to keep silence and obey her husband. I simply assumed that this would be my lot in life.
And….it very nearly happened. Looking back, I see various opportunities that I had to marry, and they all make me shudder with horror. The men in The Church were mostly egoistical, perverted brats, who cared either about their cars, their perfectly formed hair, or being annoying Super Spiritual creatures, who lived with their heads in the clouds. (I say mostly- I fully acknowledge that there were some fantastic men there, too, lest anyone think I’m being unfair.
) I don’t know for certain, and I probably never will, but I suspect that there was a marriage-in-the-making for me, just before I left. (I was 18- the right age to get married!) I suspect that it was a nick-in-time thing for me, for if I had married there, I would never have left.
Shortly after my exodus from The Church, there was the 40-some year old man, who approached my father about me when I was 18. I remember being vaguely disturbed by his friendliness to me, and the way he told my parents that he felt like they were *his* parents, and told my 11 year old brother that he felt like a brother to him. Yeah, it was creepy. Thankfully, my father was not interested in the slightest, and so this man’s hopes died.
Then, there were various young men in subsequent churches and/or ethnic groups that I dabbled in that “cast their eyes” at me. Any one of those would have hurled me into a life of servitude and oh-so-many babies. I honestly believe that it was God’s hand pushing these away from me. I didn’t understand- I was a young woman whose sole goal was to be married and have babies- why was God not granting me a husband??? If, at that point, I had been approached by one of these young men, I would have unquestioningly accepted. Again, something kept that from happening.
Not too long after this, I had enough of the “super conservative” movements, and made a conscious break. I still looked very conservative, though, which led to another interesting encounter.
A 30-some year old immigrant that came to my workplace, asked to speak to me (alone), and told me that he wanted to marry me. (he had heard about me from his family) My naïve, 19 year old self panicked, and I assured him that I was interested in someone else (I did have a crush!!), and was not available. I worried myself sick, and was so grateful to have the next day off, especially when I found out that he had come back, harassed my co-workers for my phone number, and told my manager how much he loved me and wanted to marry me. I’m not even going to begin to imagine at the hell this life would have been. I just look at the women in his family/church, and feel a deep seated pity for the wretchedness that bleeds from their faces.
As time went on, my appearance started changing, and I stopped attracting all the “conservative” weirdos out there. I began interacting in the “real” world, and it was at college that I met the man that would become my husband. It was also at college that I began evaluating and rejecting my belief system, and the patriarchy went right along with that.
During my third year at college, there was a significant debate about gender roles going on, and my circle of friends very quickly polarized in reaction to the patriarchal believing students there. We became rather militant feminists, and had Things to Say about Guys That Are Pigs and Demand The Servitude Of Women. As usually happens, we took things a little to the extreme, but hey- we were passionate college students. This helped enormously with creating my viewpoint on men and women, and I also really appreciated the Sociology professor's thoughtful espousing of Egalitarianism. I don’t think that anyone from my Patriarchal days would have recognized me anymore.
My closest friends were Collegium members. (the commuter lounge at Prov) Some of my best guyfriends were a part of that circle, and one of them was….yes, you guessed it….Chad. These men, along with our wonderful professors at Prov helped to abate our rage, and we firmly acknowledged that there are definitely Good Guys out there. We ranted, raved, fumed, reasoned, argued, laughed and discussed the many issues surrounding this matter, and we formed firm bonds of camaraderie.
We graduated from college, and one by one, started finding mates. We still had our firm ideas about Egalitarianism, and, for the most part, we found men that agreed with our views.
I am incredibly thankful for Chad. He was raised by a strong Egalitarian, who taught him to respect women for their strength, and to treat them as equals. I will always be thankful to Marina for that. Patriarchy/Complementarianism was never the least bit of a consideration for us. We both felt very strongly that we are partners in life- not as one above the other, but as equals.
I take great issue with the way general Christianity teaches Submission. I believe that the scripture has been brutally misused and pulled out of context. We always come away feeling that a woman is to submit to her husband as her head, and his only, lousy duty is to love her, whatever that may be. What this particular scripture actually means is so much more than most people take out of it. The husband is told to love the wife, and to give his life for her, so…in essence, give up everything. The more balanced picture that comes from this is one of mutual submission- each deferring to the other in love.
Still, I am generally annoyed when this scripture becomes the topic of a sermon at a wedding, and have had Things to Say when I come away from a ceremony where a wife is told to essentially give herself to her husband, and let him lead her as he desires. In talking with our wonderful officiant, Gus Konkel, I made it very clear that I did not want anything about submission in the meditation at our wedding. He heartily agreed, and came up with a completely unrelated sermon- it was fantastic! Our vows also had nothing in them that made me the lesser/subservient of the two of us- we were equals joining our lives together. And…that it what it was. Our strong feelings on this subject also reflected itself in our choice of the unity ceremony- we did the Sand Ceremony, which is where two different colors of sand are poured by each person into one jar. This is symbolic of us, as individuals, still remaining, but blending into one beautiful pattern. You can see the colors of each personality separate, yet together in such a way that it will be impossible to ever separate those grains of sand.
We have been married for 2 ½ very wonderful years. Our marriage has grown from strength to strength, and we’re still as much (if not more) in love with each other. (some say we’re still in the honeymoon stage…) This Egalitarian system has worked extremely well for us. We defer to each other, and when one has more knowledge/experience in a subject, the other defers to their expertise. We discuss things, and come to an agreement. Each of our opinions has equal weight, and we respect what the other has to say. I cannot imagine having to conform to a Patriarchal system, and thankfully, have a husband who is not the least bit interested in that kind of thing. I realize that the Egalitarian model is not for everyone, and I don’t say that you have to adhere to it. This is what has worked for us, and we’re sticking with it.
In the last little while, I have found myself going on a very domestic kick. I find that I enjoy housework, and delight in cooking and baking, and feeding my husband and friends. In some ways, it feels like I am going back to my roots- being a good, industrious housewife who bakes bread from scratch, cooks all manner of meals, grows a garden, cans her own food, etc. etc. A part of me feels guilty for doing this- perhaps, in my mind, I feel that this is a by-product of Patriarchy, and as a good Egalitarian/Feminist, I should not be engaging in this type of activity.
I think the important distinction to realize here is that I am doing this completely by choice. My husband in no way expects this from me- in fact, he found it to be a delightful bonus that I cooked so well- he was not expecting that from a girlfriend/wife! Yes, he enjoys the result of my tinkering, and supports me in this, as he knows it’s what I want to do, and what makes me happy. This has basically become my hobby- I carry equal weight in the breadwinning department (maybe a little less so now that I’m temporarily unemployed), and I come home to bake, cook, garden and can as a form of relaxation. I sometimes get teased with the “barefoot and pregnant” stereotype, and always react back in kind. Those of you that know me know that nothing is further from the truth- I am far from being a downtrodden housewife, and enjoy a wide variety of interests, discussions, activities, etc. etc. I simply enjoy the art of being domestic, and experimenting to find better ways of doing things.
When we make the decision to have children, it will be a shared responsibility, and we will most definitely teach our boys to cook and do housework, and our girls to do typical “manly” things. We want them to know that they are people, first and foremost, and boys and girls secondarily. I don’t believe in gender stereotyping, and while I strongly believe/encourage there being a difference between male and female, I don’t think that we’re doing anyone a favour by furthering abusive, antiquated systems like patriarchy. I want my children to know that they are equals in life, and have the right to be who and what they want to be.
And so…in summary…well, how do you tie together a rant like this? I suppose this has been a little while in the making, and the reading about the abuses of Patriarchy has sped it up a bit. Maybe I want to dispel any thoughts of my domestic ways making me less of a complete person. Perhaps it’s just something that remains in my own brain, but I sometimes feel that I am being judged as a little domestic homebody. I want to make it very clear that this is only a part of me! And also…I want to create awareness and compassion for my fellow women who are caught in the grips of binding Patriarchy. The seeming glossiness of the “Perfect Family” is not as it appears- there is tremendous pain and abuse under the surface.
I've been lurking and reading your blog now for several weeks, but haven't said anything. I decided to finally introduce myself here.
My name is Gloria, and I live in Manitoba, Canada. I have been married to my best friend, Chad, since August 26, 2006, and we enjoy a very strong Egalitarian marriage, and wouldn't have it any other way. (I have his mom to thank for that- she was a very strong feminist/egalitarian, and raised her son well.
You'll realize why this is so important to me as my story progresses. I was raised in an extremely restrictive, abusing cult, and so many of the things I have been reading on this blog have hit home for me. Spiritual abuse is really the same, wherever you go. :-(
My faith (or lack thereof) is still constantly changing, and I'm not sure where it will end. It's a bit of a roller coaster ride, but that's ok.
Currently, I would classify myself to be on the very liberal end of the spectrum of Christianity. (I hate using the term "Christian" or "Christianity" because of all the abuses associated with it) I suppose the best way to put it is that I do my best to love God, and to follow the spirit of the message of Jesus. Beyond that, as I said, things are constantly in flux. A little while ago, mainly as a result of reading this blog, I wrote up a bit of a rant, which I'll copy and paste here. It's probably the best way of summing up my story, at least in the context of this blog/forum. So....here we are
I was raised in a somewhat Patriarchal movement. I say somewhat, as there were some very weird twists. Women were given full equality in the church, and female ministers were encouraged and lauded. In situations where the husband was not a member of the church, or was in “bad standing”, the woman also reigned in her household. (with the careful “guidance” and control of the church) In these cases, the husband had to be careful to not say/do anything wrong, lest he be kicked out of his home by his wife/church. Yes, it makes for very weird situations.
However, in the situations where the husband was an upstanding member, there was a strong system of patriarchy in the home. The Husband was the Head, as was so “clearly” dictated by scripture. Everyone had to obey him, and his word was law. (again, provided that his word fit into the Church’s word- the Church always reigned supreme in any case.) In a domestic situation, the woman had very little to say- she was there to be his helpmeet, to bear his children, and to keep his house. She was never to work outside of the home, and was to let him be the Breadwinner for the family.
So yes, I was raised to be the perfect little housewife, to do my husband’s bidding, to bear his children, and to further the glory of The Church. Even when I left The Church, I dabbled in patriarchal groups, where the woman’s role was to keep silence and obey her husband. I simply assumed that this would be my lot in life.
And….it very nearly happened. Looking back, I see various opportunities that I had to marry, and they all make me shudder with horror. The men in The Church were mostly egoistical, perverted brats, who cared either about their cars, their perfectly formed hair, or being annoying Super Spiritual creatures, who lived with their heads in the clouds. (I say mostly- I fully acknowledge that there were some fantastic men there, too, lest anyone think I’m being unfair.
) I don’t know for certain, and I probably never will, but I suspect that there was a marriage-in-the-making for me, just before I left. (I was 18- the right age to get married!) I suspect that it was a nick-in-time thing for me, for if I had married there, I would never have left.Shortly after my exodus from The Church, there was the 40-some year old man, who approached my father about me when I was 18. I remember being vaguely disturbed by his friendliness to me, and the way he told my parents that he felt like they were *his* parents, and told my 11 year old brother that he felt like a brother to him. Yeah, it was creepy. Thankfully, my father was not interested in the slightest, and so this man’s hopes died.
Then, there were various young men in subsequent churches and/or ethnic groups that I dabbled in that “cast their eyes” at me. Any one of those would have hurled me into a life of servitude and oh-so-many babies. I honestly believe that it was God’s hand pushing these away from me. I didn’t understand- I was a young woman whose sole goal was to be married and have babies- why was God not granting me a husband??? If, at that point, I had been approached by one of these young men, I would have unquestioningly accepted. Again, something kept that from happening.
Not too long after this, I had enough of the “super conservative” movements, and made a conscious break. I still looked very conservative, though, which led to another interesting encounter.
A 30-some year old immigrant that came to my workplace, asked to speak to me (alone), and told me that he wanted to marry me. (he had heard about me from his family) My naïve, 19 year old self panicked, and I assured him that I was interested in someone else (I did have a crush!!), and was not available. I worried myself sick, and was so grateful to have the next day off, especially when I found out that he had come back, harassed my co-workers for my phone number, and told my manager how much he loved me and wanted to marry me. I’m not even going to begin to imagine at the hell this life would have been. I just look at the women in his family/church, and feel a deep seated pity for the wretchedness that bleeds from their faces.
As time went on, my appearance started changing, and I stopped attracting all the “conservative” weirdos out there. I began interacting in the “real” world, and it was at college that I met the man that would become my husband. It was also at college that I began evaluating and rejecting my belief system, and the patriarchy went right along with that.
During my third year at college, there was a significant debate about gender roles going on, and my circle of friends very quickly polarized in reaction to the patriarchal believing students there. We became rather militant feminists, and had Things to Say about Guys That Are Pigs and Demand The Servitude Of Women. As usually happens, we took things a little to the extreme, but hey- we were passionate college students.
This helped enormously with creating my viewpoint on men and women, and I also really appreciated the Sociology professor's thoughtful espousing of Egalitarianism. I don’t think that anyone from my Patriarchal days would have recognized me anymore. My closest friends were Collegium members. (the commuter lounge at Prov) Some of my best guyfriends were a part of that circle, and one of them was….yes, you guessed it….Chad. These men, along with our wonderful professors at Prov helped to abate our rage, and we firmly acknowledged that there are definitely Good Guys out there.
We ranted, raved, fumed, reasoned, argued, laughed and discussed the many issues surrounding this matter, and we formed firm bonds of camaraderie.We graduated from college, and one by one, started finding mates. We still had our firm ideas about Egalitarianism, and, for the most part, we found men that agreed with our views.
I am incredibly thankful for Chad. He was raised by a strong Egalitarian, who taught him to respect women for their strength, and to treat them as equals. I will always be thankful to Marina for that. Patriarchy/Complementarianism was never the least bit of a consideration for us. We both felt very strongly that we are partners in life- not as one above the other, but as equals.
I take great issue with the way general Christianity teaches Submission. I believe that the scripture has been brutally misused and pulled out of context. We always come away feeling that a woman is to submit to her husband as her head, and his only, lousy duty is to love her, whatever that may be. What this particular scripture actually means is so much more than most people take out of it. The husband is told to love the wife, and to give his life for her, so…in essence, give up everything. The more balanced picture that comes from this is one of mutual submission- each deferring to the other in love.
Still, I am generally annoyed when this scripture becomes the topic of a sermon at a wedding, and have had Things to Say when I come away from a ceremony where a wife is told to essentially give herself to her husband, and let him lead her as he desires. In talking with our wonderful officiant, Gus Konkel, I made it very clear that I did not want anything about submission in the meditation at our wedding. He heartily agreed, and came up with a completely unrelated sermon- it was fantastic! Our vows also had nothing in them that made me the lesser/subservient of the two of us- we were equals joining our lives together. And…that it what it was. Our strong feelings on this subject also reflected itself in our choice of the unity ceremony- we did the Sand Ceremony, which is where two different colors of sand are poured by each person into one jar. This is symbolic of us, as individuals, still remaining, but blending into one beautiful pattern. You can see the colors of each personality separate, yet together in such a way that it will be impossible to ever separate those grains of sand.
We have been married for 2 ½ very wonderful years. Our marriage has grown from strength to strength, and we’re still as much (if not more) in love with each other. (some say we’re still in the honeymoon stage…) This Egalitarian system has worked extremely well for us. We defer to each other, and when one has more knowledge/experience in a subject, the other defers to their expertise. We discuss things, and come to an agreement. Each of our opinions has equal weight, and we respect what the other has to say. I cannot imagine having to conform to a Patriarchal system, and thankfully, have a husband who is not the least bit interested in that kind of thing. I realize that the Egalitarian model is not for everyone, and I don’t say that you have to adhere to it. This is what has worked for us, and we’re sticking with it.
In the last little while, I have found myself going on a very domestic kick.
I find that I enjoy housework, and delight in cooking and baking, and feeding my husband and friends. In some ways, it feels like I am going back to my roots- being a good, industrious housewife who bakes bread from scratch, cooks all manner of meals, grows a garden, cans her own food, etc. etc. A part of me feels guilty for doing this- perhaps, in my mind, I feel that this is a by-product of Patriarchy, and as a good Egalitarian/Feminist, I should not be engaging in this type of activity.I think the important distinction to realize here is that I am doing this completely by choice. My husband in no way expects this from me- in fact, he found it to be a delightful bonus that I cooked so well- he was not expecting that from a girlfriend/wife! Yes, he enjoys the result of my tinkering, and supports me in this, as he knows it’s what I want to do, and what makes me happy. This has basically become my hobby- I carry equal weight in the breadwinning department (maybe a little less so now that I’m temporarily unemployed), and I come home to bake, cook, garden and can as a form of relaxation. I sometimes get teased with the “barefoot and pregnant” stereotype, and always react back in kind. Those of you that know me know that nothing is further from the truth- I am far from being a downtrodden housewife, and enjoy a wide variety of interests, discussions, activities, etc. etc. I simply enjoy the art of being domestic, and experimenting to find better ways of doing things.
When we make the decision to have children, it will be a shared responsibility, and we will most definitely teach our boys to cook and do housework, and our girls to do typical “manly” things. We want them to know that they are people, first and foremost, and boys and girls secondarily. I don’t believe in gender stereotyping, and while I strongly believe/encourage there being a difference between male and female, I don’t think that we’re doing anyone a favour by furthering abusive, antiquated systems like patriarchy. I want my children to know that they are equals in life, and have the right to be who and what they want to be.
And so…in summary…well, how do you tie together a rant like this? I suppose this has been a little while in the making, and the reading about the abuses of Patriarchy has sped it up a bit. Maybe I want to dispel any thoughts of my domestic ways making me less of a complete person. Perhaps it’s just something that remains in my own brain, but I sometimes feel that I am being judged as a little domestic homebody. I want to make it very clear that this is only a part of me! And also…I want to create awareness and compassion for my fellow women who are caught in the grips of binding Patriarchy. The seeming glossiness of the “Perfect Family” is not as it appears- there is tremendous pain and abuse under the surface.
I'm so sorry- I can't imagine how awful and violating that must have been! This whole submission concept has done a huge disservice to both men and women by allowing/enabling/encouraging men to be selfish, unfeeling pigs. 
*sigh* I know so well how that whole teaching is pushed. I honestly don't know what I was expecting from a husband when I was so desperately wanting to get married to one of those patriarchal ones. I don't know if I really thought that he would treat me well, or if I just had no idea. 
)
Quite revolting.
)
I think the story was a tad too dramatic, so nobody bought it.