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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Jan 28, 2010 10:20:43 GMT -5
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Post by coleslaw on Jan 28, 2010 11:00:25 GMT -5
That's weird. I thought installing a washer would count as men's work in patriarch world.
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mara
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by mara on Jan 28, 2010 11:06:06 GMT -5
Yep, RR, that's one of the things I hate about patriarchy too.
My dad, who has been in management all his life, told me that being in the position of having all the responsibility and none of the authority is a place no one should be put into.
Yet this is exactly what patriarchy is. Men are completely not responsible for women's work. Yet they get to make all the decisions. [Bosch (sp?) Bread maker, anyone?!?)
Women are held completely responsible but given no authority. This is wrong on a level I can hardly emphasize enough.
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Post by journey on Jan 28, 2010 12:37:01 GMT -5
Ruth, This is such a heart-breaking story. Thank you for sharing it. I resonate with so much of it...
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Post by susan on Jan 28, 2010 13:14:04 GMT -5
Gosh, things must have been so rough for your poor mother!
I didn't know that QF families had a hard time with accepting any and all outside help. I know that quite a few QF families are anti-social welfare -- but most of the ones I know in real life, ARE willing to graciously accept help from friends and extended family.
I think even the Duggars accept some outside help.
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Post by dangermom on Jan 28, 2010 15:44:56 GMT -5
It sounds like your mom had 4 children in 5 years or less? She must have been incredibly run-down. Even if she had someone else doing all the housework, just producing that many babies in so short a time would leave her body depleted and exhausted; pile all the work on top, and she must have felt like a zombie most of the time. Your grandparents sound like they were very worried about her.
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Post by madame on Jan 28, 2010 16:03:00 GMT -5
And this is pride that affects the wellbeing of the family.
My dad is definitely a patriarch. "As long as you live under my roof, you live by my rules (in the home), and my wife obeys me"; But he never considered housework to be beneath him. He washed dishes (or sent us to! haha), changed diapers, went shopping, or best of all, he took us out to play so my mom could get her work done, or take a nap. He worked very long hours to support us too, and always considered that to be his responsibility alone.
But he rejected outside help many times. We were offered help for things we couldn't afford and that would have made our life more comfortable, and he always turned those offers down, unless he could somehow pay it back.
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Post by krwordgazer on Jan 28, 2010 19:57:19 GMT -5
"Humility vs. Pride," huh? Sounds like the only one who had to learn humility was your poor mother-- only what she learned beyond humility, it was degradation. Meanwhile, your dad's pride had free rein to grow into a tree the size of a redwood.
Disgusting. How anyone could think that this arrangement builds godliness is completely beyond me.
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Post by jemand on Jan 28, 2010 21:48:58 GMT -5
But he rejected outside help many times. We were offered help for things we couldn't afford and that would have made our life more comfortable, and he always turned those offers down, unless he could somehow pay it back. Have any of you read Nietzsche's opinions on gifts? That they are given in a spirit of power play, that to be able to give a gift was proof of being "better" and that to receive a gift was to prove one was inferior. That all gifts had strings, and that one of the necessary strings was to make the receiver feel obligated, to feel demeaned and dismissed. That to give a gift was to display a derisive pity against the receiver. That gifts are an affront to the receiver. It has been several years since I have read Nietzsche, but his discussion of gifts, and his opinions on them, track nearly *exactly* with the attitude I see displayed towards them in the patriarchal mindset.
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Post by susan on Jan 29, 2010 14:37:33 GMT -5
Have any of you read Nietzsche's opinions on gifts? That they are given in a spirit of power play, that to be able to give a gift was proof of being "better" and that to receive a gift was to prove one was inferior. That all gifts had strings, and that one of the necessary strings was to make the receiver feel obligated, to feel demeaned and dismissed. That to give a gift was to display a derisive pity against the receiver. That gifts are an affront to the receiver. Hmmm ... it's possible that the dad might have worried that their offer had strings attached. In my experience, sometimes gifts from parents DO have strings attached. But it's still really bad that he seemingly rejected the offer without even consulting Ruth's mom. But I have a feeling that if he'd told her he wasn't comfortable accepting the offer, she might still have turned it down. But then at least it would have been HER telling her parents "No thank you" -- and not him saying no in her behalf. Still, it sounds like she really could have used the help.
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Post by razingruth on Jan 29, 2010 16:47:47 GMT -5
I had my tonsills out this morning so I may not be all "together" while responding. Would there have been strings with my grandparent's offer? - After talking to related family, I really think their offer was "string free". They were just two wealthy people who wanted to help their daughter in a life that they never saw coming or wanted for her. Although they disagreed with my father on MANY things, they didn't openly dislike him. Boy this struck a chord. My husband's dad is just like this, he refuses to do anything with housework. I remember when our washer broke and I had a 102F fever, he wouldn't help my husband install it. I had to go do it. He just sat there staring at me when I asked him why he wasn't helping.That's horrible. Women are held completely responsible but given no authority.The authority they are given is constantly undermined. I'll share a story in a future chapter where my mom had a showdown with one of my brothers. My dad constantly undermined her authority with the boys. He would tell them to obey and beat them when they didn't obey as he wanted but he would also pull the whole "boys will be boys" thing and excuse some of their really bad behavior.
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