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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Apr 14, 2010 18:32:27 GMT -5
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Post by andromeda on Apr 14, 2010 20:27:43 GMT -5
I've been a lurker for a long time, and this post finally got me to register. There was an aspect of it that was just too close to my own background. I found this site via a post on Slacktivist, and felt compelled to keep reading, and keep reading, and keep reading. It took me a while to figure out why. Eventually it clicked: I had been raised in an environment oddly similar to Quiverfull in many ways, yet secular, strange as that may sound. My father, an atheist at the time, nonetheless tried to create this kind of life in his home. I don't want to hijack Ruth's post with my tale of woe, so I won't recount it all here, though I think it'll probably emerge in dribs and drabs over time. The thing that hit home today was the deodorant. I had a heck of a time trying to obtain a women's deodorant to use when I hit puberty. My father insisted that this was a waste of money when he had a perfectly good men's deodorant (his own) that I could use. Ick, right? Trying to get pads was an ordeal too, and my newfound desire to have some privacy was seen as insolence. It sounds really creepy when I think about it now--my dad would decree that it was hot in the house and so we all needed to strip down to underpants. When I started getting breast buds, I refused, and he never let me live down my stubbornness on this point. Then I got to the part in the post where Ruth's father was sure she'd had sex rather than gotten her period, and I was shocked. Wow, what a nasty mind that man must have had.
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Post by mommybunny1 on Apr 14, 2010 20:45:01 GMT -5
There are two things I want to say before commenting on this chapter. First, I hope that Angel is feeling better. Second, Ruth, I have always believed you.
Puberty is such a difficult time in the best of circumstances. I wish I could comfort the pubescent Ruth and take away the pain and fear. Our culture, in general poorly prepares parents to guide their children through this time it seems. My parents, who were very screwed up in lots of ways, did pretty well with where babies come from and with menstruation. Their discomfort with the subject matter was palpable.
For some odd reason, they were weird with shaving and with deodorant too. I remember that my own daughters started both practices way before they were needed. They were late bloomers, but started shaving and using deodorant at about 8 years old. My mother saw this and reprimanded me for allowing it. It seemed silly to undo a behavior that they were going to have to eventually engage in routinely. I just got them their own supplies and let it go. What on earth is the big deal?
We have bodies and this is what they do. I really do wonder about the guidance of this deity we insist on keeping around.
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Post by janedoe on Apr 14, 2010 22:17:05 GMT -5
One, I'm glad that andromeda posted her story and Thank you for that andromeda because These Sexual abuses [and they ARE Sexual abuses] need to be Exposed, that they Don't just occur in QF homes, but in Atheist homes too. I feel Very strongly on that, and in Pagan homes they occur, and in agnostic, and I don't say this to Minimize the Role that fundamentalist religion has to do with yes, screwing up the minds of men and women and whole communities, because it sure the heck has, and Sexuality and Sexual abuse I think, toward women and children are a huge evidence of this and people think sexual/sexuality abuse is just about rape/molestation but it's NOT. And not only that, mothers, women, etc., can be perps as well as men, and what is So hard in Coming to grips with the internals [and the acting out and then we don't know until one day like a light bulb or by comparison/trigger we see that what WE thought was/is normal to most people isn't], and Then that is the difficult part in putting Back together, something lost that is so personal and intimate yet not knowing how or where to Even begin, especially in defining for ourselves what healthy boundaries and self concepts are. Someone here posts often about the virgin-whore dichotomy and that is so true, but it's so much more than that...with the Controls, well hell, no, the Ownership that abusers [including those who abuse maybe not deliberately but out of I guess religious/maybe their own warped internalizations/ignorance] over our Bodies and body image and our sexuality, and This I think, has been the most difficult for me, to deal with... Ruth it was the period that triggered me, well that and the bra thing...though the RA [and the sexual abuse that was ritual] was no QF related in my life, it Did have I believe a lot of influences from that virgin-whore dichotomy of religion AND paganism, I have to put the paganism in there because that had more to do with the abuses/and the Ownership my female abuser, ok, took over My body, and I do mean Ownership, in ways that were well, rape. This is not something I thought I'd talk about Here, but I want to give you some links, to some blogs of survivors of sexual and RA abuse, not just for You but for others here, that I have used, that I think do help....at least, with knowing the feelings [for me it's been self hate to rage] that surface are not un-normal, I guess is what I'm trying to say, it's the part where your father takes this kind of ownership, over your menstrual and sexuality that just screams in this way...reliving you know, that this is more than just patriarchal controls, but it's a form of Incest actually, emotional sexual incest, but it's incest all the same. with the bra thing...yea my female abuser couldn't Wait for me to fill in a bra, nor wait to make sure she made it public...but you see prior to that, at the age of 7, she took the ownership of my body way farther than that, ok without going into detail here but the Ritual of it, is Identical, well kind of, in how your menstrual and sexuality [and other's here] were controlled and taken ownership of, by parents and then by the ideological basis, and well, let me just say, by God Himself. See this is something that I've been going back and forth with, wrestling with God is over this, and on bad days it's all I can do to say, How DARE you God...and it's in there, you bet, the rage...why I can't even listen to submission teachings or your role woman in Any church--I'd go postal, literally if I had to sit through one of those ever again and any more I don't even read them in the Bible...I know they are there but I just skip over them, that's one part I'm not healed yet and well, sexuality and my body is something that I've had to fight like hell to take back...
periods were another thing, and Even AFTER I married, the second time [my first common law husband I married at very young age after running away from home/just turned 17, so my female abuser didn't know or have access to him/us then which well, he was physically abusive so it's actually a good thing she wasn't involved there but years later when I remarried she was and the control [and by this time I was in twenties...but RA abuse can last into adult hood esp when it's tied into occult/or paganism, religious controlling, etc] but anyway, she would make comments to my husband in front of me that were Porn like, about my breasts, etc., so like I never could get away from the fact that while I may have been married it was HER who owned and had control over me and my life--and she was really like the Venus...except Venus turned into a type of Christian Venus??? [there is also the whole shriner thing from father's side of family but I won't get into that here's , let's just say, it's not just Venus but Kali and Isis...that's as far as I'll go on this matter but the programming/RA was to create a whore-prostitute...that much I Do know]
Those types of emotional and well Incest, because those types of rituals ARE a form of INCEST, just like rape/molestation, aren't just wished away or dismissed away, for me, and maybe for many of you, when I really started having to come to Grips of just how much of my Self had been robbed from me was when my children became the same age [actually for me it was my son] that the violation to me occurred but I had had triggers, like when my daughters needed bras and when they started menstruating --
unlike Christian teaching, when my oldest daughter started going through puberty it was very important to me that she have her privacy AND ownership of her own body--in fact, when I found that she was having sex [at 14] while I did talk to her, I gave her choice and she got on birth control. Now I have 'guilt' over this, because it's not the Christian thing to do but at the Same time I have a lot of ambivalence toward this belief that we are to take Ownership of our daughter's body's to preserve some kind of virgin purity, and it's because of the incest and abuse...the whole Purity ball thing to me just Wrecks of pagan shrine temples, and when my other daughter's youth group asked her to be in one, I said no way....
she didn't Want to be a part of [and she attends a liberal moderate church, but I don't care, the whole purity ball thing just to me is nothing more than a dressed up version of Pedophilia and selling girls to the temple goddesses.] It's another form of 'ownership' over girls bodies that really, no one has a darn right to own or control other than HER.
[this goes for boys too, my brother was also victimized in the same-similar ways...so, I want to say that because there is this 'myth' out there that this only happens to girls, Wrong...and it messes men up Just as bad as it does women].
Ruth I want to say that you are brave, and that your story needs to be told AND heard, not just because of the QF but because within numerous religious homes and non-religious homes these abusive rituals that are a violation of personal boundaries go on all the time and so many people think that they are harmless, but they aren't...they leave permanent wounds that take years to heal, they effect future relationships, personal boundaries, and raising of children because if not confronted many pass these beliefs on...and it really boils down to the belief I think [my opinion here] that women's bodies are just here for the pleasure of men [and today there are groups that are doing these rituals to girls for Women, one I know of in CA] from a young age...girls are taught, either by teaching, constructs, violations to their personhood, humiliation, violations to their boundaries and assault, incest, rape, etc., and that girls/women have no rights over their own bodies...
and This is Strongest message that I hear, when reading your experience. Because the violations to me were done not just by men but by a woman, I do not do well with the whole take back sexuality imagery with sharing with other Women...that has been another struggle that only those who have been abused sexually by women can understand and so I don't know what to tell you there, part of me wants to include one blog, but don't know if I should,
but I think, well yea maybe I should...because I think, many of you will find healing and a lot of helpful information, to help you heal and to take back, what was robbed.
Though this one is for women survivors of Mother to Daughter abuse, Vickie I think this would be a good resource for you all to look through, warning, these blogs can trigger, some of the stories are upsetting, but you'll see numerous similarities with the rituals used.
whataboutwhenmomistheabuser.blogspot.com/
ritualabuse.us/
This is a good blog, with many good other blog links
faithallen.wordpress.com/
www.survivorship.org/
Also, every time I see this Gothard now I can't help but think,
Jim Jones and the People's Temple...that's what this all reminds me of. And the Ritual abuses, including ritual sexual abuse, no joking, are eerily similar to occult ritual abuses. Way too similar,
Jane
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Apr 14, 2010 22:17:47 GMT -5
{{{{{Ruth}}}}} Being a teenager can suck enough under normal circumstances but what you had to go through... Words fail me.
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Post by dangermom on Apr 14, 2010 23:33:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm kind of too horrified to know what to say. I would have laid down and died of embarrassment, I'm so sorry for all the humiliation you had to endure.
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Post by journey on Apr 15, 2010 0:52:33 GMT -5
It's a wonder anyone came out of that house sane, Ruth. My goodness. ((((((hugs))))))
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Post by andromeda on Apr 15, 2010 7:08:25 GMT -5
Thanks janedoe, and you're exactly right on the incest front...there are lots of abuses that we're not used to seeing as "incest" or "sexual abuse" or even "abuse" at all, but they are. They're a violation of the boundaries that should be there between a parent and child, and a violation of the child's bodily integrity. And I think it sets kids up to be more vulnerable to other abusers as they go through life. After all, if their boundaries are being breached at home, will they know when a non-family member crosses the line? Or a husband?? Couple that with the QF belief in submission to husbands, and it opens the door to all kinds of problems.
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Post by hopewell on Apr 15, 2010 7:58:25 GMT -5
It must not have been too much blood if he thought you'd lost your virginity--a completely bizarre response to the obvious! Once again, glad your mom was there. Sadly, your shock of it happening was the norm in the early 70s when I started the mess and embarrassment of periods! (Having to STAND UP and say "I can't shower this week" in gym with boys present was the worst!) I can imagine your Dad's reaction made you feel similar to being raped.
I've always thought it too controlling, to bizarre for words, that the GIRLS in QF families, brought up on modesty, have to chart their periods. If Mom and Dad want to publicly chart their "happy days" good on 'em. Who would you being having sex with and WHERE with all those little kids to rat you out??
I assumed "womanhood" was a celebration, since it ties in so closely with the goal of becoming a Mom. I feel for Joy-Anna Duggar, who appears to have "become a woman" and no must leave "childhood" behind while her idiot brother continue to be Tazmanian devils.
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Post by musicmom on Apr 15, 2010 12:30:27 GMT -5
"that I think do help....at least, with knowing the feelings [for me it's been self hate to rage] that surface are not un-normal, I guess is what I'm trying to say, it's the part where your father takes this kind of ownership, over your menstrual and sexuality that just screams in this way...reliving you know, that this is more than just patriarchal controls, but it's a form of Incest actually, emotional sexual incest, but it's incest all the same."
The last sentence of this made me want to say something that's been bouncing around in my head lately:
I think that our culture is so left-brained, and so linear thinking that we think that for there to be any SERIOUS abuse, it must involve the body. It must be physical or sexual to be respected. I always thought this too, and downplayed in a big way, the very intense emotional abuse that I received growing up.
But what is abuse? It is primarily an abuse of power. It steals energy from a less powerful person and gives it to a more powerful person, which then, gives them even more power. Yes, this can be done through beatings and sexual abuse. But, in its purest form, EMOTIONS are power. Our emotions are our energy that we use to connect and have influence on the world. The fact that you can not definitely spot emotional abuse, and that most people would not know it was occurring, does not change the fact that emotional abuse is probably the quickest and safest way to obtain power from someone else -especially a child who needs love from its parents and will do anything to get it.
An added plus to emotional abuse is that the child doesn't even have a name or construct to know he or she is being abused. It just feels normal to them. You grow up feeling tired all the time and concerned about everyone's else feelings. Then you're labeled "codependent' and you feel you have some sort of disease.
I guess what I'm wondering, is - not that we have to rate them - but perhaps this emotional abuse that these QF parents do - maybe it's the worst kind of abuse there is. The most damaging and the hardest to detect and deal with. Thoughts?
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Post by xara on Apr 15, 2010 12:41:25 GMT -5
Hugs to Ruth. As others have said, puberty is awkward enough without your family making it worse.
Your story does reinforce to me how important accurate anatomy and sex education is for young people though. I remember in high school, one of my male classmates asked me how the whole period thing worked. He asked if it was similar to urinating where you store the blood up and then let it out when you are ready. I told him that no unfortunately it is something that you have no conscious control over and that during your period you just have to have something, either pads or tampons (this was in the 80s before the menstrual cup and some of the newer options were available), there the entire time to catch the blood and that they needed to be changed regularly.
This was never covered in health class. But I was actually impressed that a guy had the guts to ask me that. And that he was able to ask it respectfully and without either of us being super embarrassed was really amazing. Particularly since I had a hard time discussing it with my mom. She was totally up front about the whole thing and wanted to discuss it with me. I just wasn't comfortable talking about it with her. By the time mine started I had read the Judy Blume novels and had a good idea of what to expect. Also, though I needed a bra earlier than most of the girls in my class, I was one of the last to get my period and my friends had talked about theirs.
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Post by dangermom on Apr 15, 2010 14:26:01 GMT -5
Hey, is there a reason that there's no "reply" button on the sincerity/hypocrisy thread? (Only it's not a thread, because there's no button to post with!)
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Apr 15, 2010 14:41:07 GMT -5
Hey, is there a reason that there's no "reply" button on the sincerity/hypocrisy thread? (Only it's not a thread, because there's no button to post with!) Yikes ~ thanks for letting me know. I have it fixed now.
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Post by sisof9 on Apr 15, 2010 16:04:13 GMT -5
Ruth - I am sooo sorry. I cannot imagine the embarrassment and stuff - normally people are embarrassed without all of that added crap - wow. I am sorry. I always feel badly for girls whose dads are so involved, but Ben and I hope to have him some involved, so it's NOT that big of a deal to say "Dad im on my period" or something. Why on earth did they want you to chart? Esp in a public place? That doesn't make any sense to me - you werent going to be having sex 'til marriage, so at least 5 years anyways - why chart? I am really sad your dad assumed you'd had sex - that is so wrong.
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Post by rosiegirl on Apr 15, 2010 17:35:27 GMT -5
For me, it was my mom. She was just so obsessed with the whole womanhood thing, and being a woman, and being a mother. When I told her early on that I didnt want kids, she took it as some personal afront to her.
She actually waited for my period, and this made me hide it when I did get it - but she found it one morning when she came in to wake me and my cousin up, and actually checked between my legs, and woke me up with "You're a woman now, you should be so proud."
When she found out I'd been hiding it, she actually said I ought to be ashamed of myself, that childbirth was a gift from god and all that, and blamed the "bad influence" and my refusal to accept my "womanhood" on my cousin.
I should say "wombanhood", because thats how she viewed it.
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Post by Ex-Adriel on Apr 15, 2010 18:35:19 GMT -5
erk.
My mother's the same way - even now I can't get a single visit in without her bringing up how saddened she is by not having any grandchildren.
Nevermind that I have two brothers, one of whom I'm fairly certain is already a father (not that SHE knows, or would admit it).
Oh No, I'm the girl, so it's MY job to have the babies so she can have descendants.
As far as I'm concerned, she's SOL on that count.
I didn't have any trouble with puberty with my family (other than my dad (mostly) teasing that he was going to keep me locked in the garage until I was 25... ) but there was one really tiny QF school that I spent ninth grade in, and they were super-creepy controlling.
Girls and boys had to have a 'bathroom monitor' - read: teacher of the opposite sex - guard the stall door when you needed the restroom. Not the overall bathroom door, the individual STALL. I had constant UTIs because I refused to go to the bathroom in that building once I found that out the first day. Ugh!
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Post by dangermom on Apr 15, 2010 18:49:38 GMT -5
WHAT? You mean, a male teacher was supposed to guard your stall when you went to the bathroom? And the guys had women teachers? That is bizarre. Why a teacher of the opposite sex? Why at all, but especially why a guy teacher for a girl?
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Post by Ex-Adriel on Apr 15, 2010 19:00:36 GMT -5
The stated reason was to avoid "perversions of thought" and "loosening of the teacher-student relationship."
The unstated reason I'm pretty sure is that the male family-members of the faculty (they were all one family) were all perverts, and some of the women were as well.
And yes, you got it exactly right - girls have men standing in front of their stalls (and escorting them there and back to the classroom) and the boys had the women teachers do the same.
It was an icky place.
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em
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Post by em on Apr 15, 2010 19:39:03 GMT -5
Your story does reinforce to me how important accurate anatomy and sex education is for young people though. I remember in high school, one of my male classmates asked me how the whole period thing worked. He asked if it was similar to urinating where you store the blood up and then let it out when you are ready. Somewhat unrelated, but that reminds me of a funny story. A former coworker, who was like 20 at the time, told us all he didn't know girls pooped until a year earlier. Lol. Ex-Adriel ... ohmygod. There are no words. I'd have had constant infections from holding it too. That is just so creepy, horrible, and WRONG. Oh my god. Sometimes it's hard enough to go just knowing someone else is using the bathroom too, but to have a creeper perving on you, listening right outside the stall? Geez. I can't imagine how horrible that would be if your lunch wasn't agreeing with you. Wow. I'm so shocked. What kind of place does that? And *hugs* to Ruth. I can't believe you've come out the other side so well after all you've been subjected to. You must be so incredibly strong.
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Post by janedoe on Apr 15, 2010 21:04:08 GMT -5
I didn't have any trouble with puberty with my family (other than my dad (mostly) teasing that he was going to keep me locked in the garage until I was 25... ) but there was one really tiny QF school that I spent ninth grade in, and they were super-creepy controlling.
Girls and boys had to have a 'bathroom monitor' - read: teacher of the opposite sex - guard the stall door when you needed the restroom. Not the overall bathroom door, the individual STALL. I had constant UTIs because I refused to go to the bathroom in that building once I found that out the first day. Ugh! Concentration Camp, all I can say, that is Exactly what That is...so sorry, you know for you, Ruth, andromedia, all here, but what can words say you know, they Don't take it away, all I can say is I rage inside with you and feel horrified with you and violated with you, it's frustrating beyond words And triggering, you know that is what they do to girls/women in the state wards/children's homes too, like, well, do I go there, it's like they rescue these girls from abuse ONLY to put them in homes that are far worse, especially if they are wards of the State. Those types of things happen a lot, men guarding stalls and strip searches [for the Least infractions] and so forth, and corporations in other countries, you know when I read about whole Pink Dot I think, China, the having to report to the province/region nurse you have your period...and they Do do that, maybe not as much anymore except in rural areas, but it's not just China, it's in Juarez Mexico, women [young] and in fashion sweatshops all over the world [and other labor camps] they do Period checks on the women, it's like, you have no rights, and Andromedia you nailed it, to have Any CONSENT to your body, to privacy or to reveal or to explore, nada, nothing, and it is downright INFURIATING, that here in 2012, Women Worldwide, in Numerous ways, are Still being constructed to Believe that Someone else, man or woman or parent or authority, has MORE right to Their body, to Their autonomy, than They do. It's really an outrage, if one really thinks deep about it. It's not just reproductive, it goes So much more deeper than that. I see this a LOT on Moderate Christian forums [though it's also on secular but it's a Different psychology used, and don't even get me started on the whole media and porn culture and labia surgeries and all that self inflicted torture abusive garbage women are being brainwashed into], and how they do it through the whole be a Godly woman, sexual immorality, your body isn't your own, I mean, like, whatever pleases a man is just way o.k. you know but I've actually Read preachers, women, men, tell married men/or women that touching a woman is sin, it's masturbation and I'm thinking, WTF, seriously? Because THOSE things really send strong messages that women's bodies are impure, defective BUT oh, of course, to be available to men for Their use at any time, and it's pure unadulterated crock. One thing I'll say about the eco-feminist movement is that hanging with them I did learn to take my body back, to celebrate it and to tap into the life souce, Mother earth, the Power and to see it as a beautiful creation by the Lord God, that like the Earth, our knees are carved like the mountains [K2 and Everest] and our stomachs like the desert sands and our breasts like the hills and the space between like the valleys and our genitals like the caves and by caves I'm referring to the caves around the world that are really a source of Life for THE ENTIRE PLANET AND ECO SYSTEMS, our bodies, female bodies were created much along the Same patterns, and the salt-and water, the ocean, Without the Ocean we'd be all DEAD. The problem with religion is that it has perverted sex and sexuality into this for men thing...when it really has to do with the essence and power of Life Source, and Women, are more than just wombs and uterus, more than labia and breasts, because IF you really study earth science, the Earth, when she unleashes her power, she can Destroy as well as Nourish, she is not some passive player in the whole dynamic of Life. and it was Jesus who showed me this, one day when we were talking [praying, discourse] and I have Yet to see this taught in any doctrine, and it's really sad, because the self -Hate that we are polluted with by the Hate of the Female by so many sources, robs us from So much Joy, and Love. I wish I could say that oh I'm just of this Mind all the time but I struggle with it, back and forth, because yes, Musicmom, the Emotional and Severe RA emotional, they stay, like, well for me it's like a split, one part of me, Logically can reason the lies away...and be o.k. but ONE word, one Action, one Trigger, one Repeat of an abuse, and it's like I switch [not like switch and NOT know who I am, not the altar kind of switch] but the Emotional switch and then I'm in the abyss, and I don't come out until I write it out or talk it out...and you would Think those Words, the emotional side of it would like, over time just dissappear or diminish, but it doesn't. BUT in all fairness, I can't speak for all types of abuse there, I know in my case, with the RA and it being from our mother, because of the intimate connection there, and the other sources [my Nana was involved too, long story] but, yea, I don't know and so, hmmm, don't know what to say on that one, some people seem to heal or move on and some don't, I Think though, a lot of that depends on IF they are still in any way connected to abuse/RA or emotional reminders, on that I don't know, I think, for me, it's just One day at a time, that I know it's there, I use the negative, to help me be better [though that's really where it gets tough for me because with pain taking ownership of pain we cause gets really messy because any constructive criticism comes or sounds [esp if there are altars] like our RA all over again and the altars will react, sometimes strongly and even violently] etc. [referring to those with DID] I have a form of DID but I wouldn't say full blown DID because I don't have the huge gaps in memory, I'm conscious but there was splits, and for me, it's in the emotions, because for me it was the Emotions I had to always stay in strict control over due to any show of emotion she didn't like--was the cue for the psychological mind control abuse to begin. So, like, QF it seems Has the mind controls, but I don't know if it's like the same, like in RA and in SRA, to the same degree...that's not my area of expertise, you know I can only give opinion from reading/reader observation. There are similarities but a lot of differences, the QF women here don't seem to have the issues of Rage that like me and other RA survivors of abuse do, but maybe because Those emotions haven't surface yet? ?? I also had repeated trauma, so...[and many RA and SRA and Sexually abused adults Do have repeated trauma, due to the acting out, etc] So, yea, you're right, but I don't really know how to answer that one Jane
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Post by janedoe on Apr 15, 2010 22:18:12 GMT -5
Musicmom I did want to say, [see above reply] that one issue that I write on/against that has to do with the Emotional abuse via Terror and diminishing women's experiences, is regarding the normalization of prostitution and porn, esp child porn. I thought you might be interested in reading but I will be covering a series on the new [well it's not really New, the misogynist bullshit has been around in the scientific community/psychiatric for some time now] attacks against women/children regarding pedophilia and child abuse. In Europe women are more and more being Silenced,. it's infuriating and I believe this will have a domino effect. And it will have a horrid impact on women leaving patriarchal abuses even more, IF those misogynist and down right indifferent attitudes become more norm. Anyway, the Pro-pedophile [the it's only taboo religious and kid's like being molested garbage being spewed in parts of Europe] are doing more to Discredit women in both media and in the courts. So we're going to have a Real battle on our hands, Personally, my opinion is this, don't care IF they believe in God, don't care if they Don't, but this 'entitlement' to abuse, rape, pay to rape (prostitution/Trafficking] and force marry and all the other b.s., because of whatever Reasonings men use [and sadly, some women], and to use 'science' to justify this bullshit, well to me, [and I'm finding more and more I'm not the only one] begs for one thing and one thing only, there comes a time, one stops talking, and starts fighting back...revolution ain't no tea party.d Sad to say, it may Very well come down to that, and there Are women in India, who ARE doing just this, taking matters into their own hands, yes they use violence, they they fight, but you know something, to Every man, abuser, they contend with, that Abuser, stops abusing and raping women, molesting children. Go figure...and these women ARE growing in numbers. I'll be doing a series on this, if you're interested in reading, Warning however, if you think the Pearls are bad, wait till you read some of the Shit coming out from the top degrees, academics, in Europe and here in America. I have no tolerance for them...personally, I say, skin them alive, it arouses me. [pay backs are a bitch aren't they--they had Better beware, those of us who have suffered the RA and been on the streets and so forth, they keep spewing for these policy changes, some won't be so diplomatic, and there are Thousands of exploited youth today in our world, abused, broken, and full of rage. Holland has Such a problem with the children/youth, that they [the State] had to try to come up with programs, because the crime is going up....know what I say to that, let the pedos and the 'elites' get their due...they got it coming. It's elites like that, and their 'scientific bunk' to Justify the most horrid sexual abuses, that has created some of the worlds Worst youth gangs, like the one from El Salvador, and they are here in the U.S., and growing... anyway, I'll be writing a series on this, in case you're interested in reading, with Studies, from Russia, Holland, Italy, and America. Thought I'd let you know. the blog: homesewersneedleworkersunion-hsnwu.blogspot.com/I have another blog that is a bit more issue only oriented [without the personal mixed in] but due to time I've been keeping this blog up more so. The Union btw, was an independent union of women in the creative needle arts working to form Coops and networking to empower women in other parts of the world, however, sad to say, the Interest just wasn't here...it's class, that and the internalization thanks to yes, Marxist feminism [though they are right where luxury class is concerned I just don't support let's all have dicks and arms for equality rhetoric] but anyway it's more the individualist over society/village here, though Australia, is really moving forward on these issues By grass roots women, amazing really. Anyway I do write on the textiles and the exploitation/feminization of poverty on the blog, which IS tied into also economic dependence on males/corporations and a.k.a. tied into trafficking...so, to clarify that a bit.d Anyway I'll be writing on the child abuses that are excused, Planned out even, by the yes, technical and scientific/government elites, worldwide, including the using children, here in America, as Guinea Pigs for dangerous Drugs. Poor children, but Children neththeless...and the public, Few are aware, of what is Done, in name of progress, science and technology. It's a Social Engineering Nightmare, only difference is, it's men with dicks playing God, to me, they are Just as deplorable, as those who Use God, to abuse, control, and kill. Soul assassins, they point at each other, but they are the same shit. [sorry, sometimes though, I have to just Put it down blunt] from the anti-trafficking/end violence to women front Jane
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phatchick
Junior Member
Medicated for Your Protection
Posts: 80
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Post by phatchick on Apr 15, 2010 23:30:51 GMT -5
erk. My mother's the same way - even now I can't get a single visit in without her bringing up how saddened she is by not having any grandchildren. {wry grin} I dealt with my mom in a very simple way. When she once told me, "I want to be a grandma in the worst way." I just gave her an evil smile and replied, "I can arrange that." She gave me a dirty look and changed the subject.
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flah
New Member
Posts: 13
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Post by flah on Apr 16, 2010 10:29:07 GMT -5
I was pretty horrified by this post -- feeling so much angst for you, Ruth. Then I read this, "In our house, there was no room for PMS." And I about fell off my chair laughing.
I used to be the manager of a department with about eight men and three women. We asked one of the guys what the weird notations were in his day-planner -- he had the courage to tell us that he tracked his wife, his coworker, and his boss (me) when we were PMS-ing. He knew never to bring us bad news or interact much with us during those times. The hilarious part: he was fantastically accurate. I guess what I'm saying is that in my house, PMS has always taken up a lot of room, and doesn't ask permission!
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Post by rosiegirl on Apr 16, 2010 15:07:45 GMT -5
I always told her it was none of her business what was going on with my reproductive organs. She would ask me what if my husband wanted kids, and I had to ask.. why does it only matter what he wants? Why dont my feelings matter? Do you like being treated like a broodmare, and if so, why should I like it?
I also said that in any case where someone uses someone else's reproductive organs against their will, its called rape, and I didnt consider it any different for my mother, or any man for that matter, to demand children out of me against my will. Just because you're my parent or my "husband" doesnt mean I owe you anything from my uterus.
She's since stopped bringing it up to me. I am that "What did I do wrong with her, where did I go astray" daughter to her though. Since I'm her only daughter, she pretty much likes to pretend that her SOL is her new daughter, and the better one.. because she had kids.
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Post by km on Apr 16, 2010 15:51:20 GMT -5
What in the world? Your dad thought you'd had sex? As isolated as you were in ATI and *at the age of thirteen* I didn't even know what you meant when you said he thought you'd "defiled your body." I assumed he thought you'd slit your wrists or something. But had sex? I mean, really? He thought you snuck someone in the house? Or had sex with a sibling? I mean, WHAT? That sounds extremely...messed up, Ruth. I am so sorry you had to live that way. I mean, it's just...bizarre to me that he didn't put two and two together in the first place. It makes me so sad that you were raised to have so much shame around your body. I have *such* sensitive skin that I cannot do any pubic shaving without awful rashes and chafing and just... Ugh, it's terrible. I can understand why the things that signified for your family (courtship?) would be scary. Ugh... I'm just...sorry. And, also... I must say... *No room in the budget for deodorant.* What??? See, that's the kind of thing that can't be determined around "budgeting." We all have different body chemistry and start needing deodorant at different ages. How could they think they could streamline it all that way? My mom is a fifth grade teacher, and she's always complaining about how bad her ten year-olds smell. The teachers now send a letter out every year to remind parents that it's about time for kids to start using deodorant.
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