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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 26, 2009 19:46:50 GMT -5
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Post by tapati on Sept 27, 2009 12:30:04 GMT -5
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Sept 28, 2009 7:25:20 GMT -5
Tapati ~ this part of your story has me eager to know what came next. I can't believe that Mike went along with you back to your mother's house ~ wow. That picture of your mother brings back memories of a good friend's mom who had a standing appointment every Thursday to get her beehive hairdo. I used to wonder how she slept with her hair up like that. Isn't it interesting that you stayed at the Salvation Army for a while. I've always admired the practical ministry of the S.A. If you look into their history, the women always had a significant role in the Salvation Army going all the way back to Catherine Booth who was the mother of 8 ~ and yet, worked right alongside her husband in founding the ministry even writing his sermons and participating in street preaching herself. So I wonder about the connection between the Salvation Army's egalitarianism and the organization's focus on the down-and-out, "least of these." Anyway ~ thanks for this latest installment of your story, Tapati ~ I know it took quite an effort as you've been struggling with the migraines lately.
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Post by tapati on Sept 28, 2009 13:29:28 GMT -5
Tapati ~ this part of your story has me eager to know what came next. I can't believe that Mike went along with you back to your mother's house ~ wow. I didn't believe it either. I left the Salvation Army shelter assuming he wouldn't come along and I'd likely never see him again. Talk about enmeshed instant relationships! Bad, bad sign... I have a picture of myself with a beehive! It's hilarious! (I was in 4th grade.) Mom had some kind of bonnet thing she wore over it, and was expert at doing repair work. You're welcome! I suspect women do have quite a hand in ordering their priorities and I've been helped by them several times over the years. Good people! I wonder if they still have that shelter in Chicago. They did a great job! I also wonder about the path not taken. What might have happened if I had stayed and gone to live with the nice Jewish family? I'll never know. But I suspect my life would be very different now.
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Post by Sierra on Sept 28, 2009 21:55:46 GMT -5
Wow! What a story! It is amazing that Mike was willing to just pack and go, hardly a question asked. I, too, am eager to see what comes next.
I remember such acute feelings of frustration with the minor laws... I remember feeling like chattel that my father owned, that he could make any decision at any moment that could ruin my life and it would be perfectly legal. This feeling was only reinforced, of course, by the fact that I saw fathers "guiding their households" with iron fists and denying their daughters access to education, work, etc... It has been a while since I read your earlier posts so I'm not sure exactly what your relationship with your mother was like (besides very strained), but what you said about being 17 just reminded me of that feeling of flailing helplessly against the world at that age.
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Post by krwordgazer on Sept 28, 2009 23:33:22 GMT -5
This is interesting, Tapati. Nowadays, I think, if someone running a shelter heard a girl tell her mother, "I'm afraid of you!" they'd be asking a good many more questions. Or should be, anyway-- though there is still a tendency to assume the "best place" for a kid is with her parents and to not look too closely at the consequences. I feel for both you and Sierra.
I'm a little surprised , Tapati, that you were not blackballed or ostracized when you left the temple-- that's the way anyone who left the cult I was in, was treated. Did they believe you had succumbed to maya? How exactly did they treat you once you had left? Were they trying to get you back?
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Post by cereselle on Sept 28, 2009 23:41:41 GMT -5
What struck me most was your mother's desperation to fix your relationship, and your need to come to terms with it in your own way. I so feel for you, being dragged back to that when you weren't ready yet.
I'm betting nothing actually changed-- unless having Mike around made your mom be on her best behavior. People don't just magically fix what's wrong with them. Unfortunately.
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Post by sargassosea on Sept 29, 2009 6:27:26 GMT -5
Hey Tapati! I've been meaning to comment, but I've been kinda busy... First off - BOO to migraines I'm looking forward to finding out why Mike was so willing to just jump up and split on a dime. I mean, I know it was the crazy 70s and all, but wow... and why do I get the feeling that this doesn't end well? (That last bit is rather rhetorical )
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Post by grandmalou on Sept 29, 2009 7:30:04 GMT -5
Tapati, that had to be so hard for you...going back 'home' to where it did not feel like a home. Thank you for writing this, and know it is hard for you to feel like writing anything at all with migraines. My thoughts and prayers go out for you to very soon be feeling much better! And know that all of us are looking forward to your health...that is the most important thing. In our anticipation for your next installment of the story, let us not get 'pushy' and you not overdo it. Just get well! (((HUGS)))
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Post by tapati on Sept 29, 2009 14:04:35 GMT -5
Wow! What a story! It is amazing that Mike was willing to just pack and go, hardly a question asked. I, too, am eager to see what comes next. I remember such acute feelings of frustration with the minor laws... I remember feeling like chattel that my father owned, that he could make any decision at any moment that could ruin my life and it would be perfectly legal. This feeling was only reinforced, of course, by the fact that I saw fathers "guiding their households" with iron fists and denying their daughters access to education, work, etc... It has been a while since I read your earlier posts so I'm not sure exactly what your relationship with your mother was like (besides very strained), but what you said about being 17 just reminded me of that feeling of flailing helplessly against the world at that age. I think there needs to be an easier route to emancipation, and help in school to get ready for a job one can do while attending (and more arrangements for home school or night school in conjunction with the public school system so one can work and still complete school). In a nutshell, my mother had a disastrous childhood of her own and came out of it mentally ill (depressive and probably a personality disorder along with Munchausens). She had me thinking that she would get the love she never received from her mom (at least it didn't feel like her mom loved her). Our relationship was very enmeshed, obviously, and she also had a violent temper. She had abused my half sister by scalding her hands and sending her to the hospital with burns. She got some counseling after that and that kept her from abusing me that severely as a child--but she would throw temper tantrums that included breaking things and yelling and carrying on. It was quite terrifying when I was younger. Spanking of course was the method of choice back when I was growing up, and my family used switches, fly swatters, rulers, and their hand. I was spanked by every female in my family, so I didn't think of it as abuse. It seemed like all my friends were disciplined the same way. She later admitted to me that when I was very young she thought about killing me and herself. When I was 13 she nearly died as a result of an overdose and just happened to be found by my Grandpa Glen (bio grandpa) who wasn't scheduled to come over at all. He saw that the dogs were running back and forth from the door to her room upstairs and got the landlord to let him in. That was the first of several attempts throughout my teen years and I tried to leave home before, ending up at the county home which was like a juvie facility. I asked to return home it was so bad. So this is another installment in "can't I just effing leave?" Reminds me of the song "Hotel California."
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Post by tapati on Sept 29, 2009 14:09:38 GMT -5
This is interesting, Tapati. Nowadays, I think, if someone running a shelter heard a girl tell her mother, "I'm afraid of you!" they'd be asking a good many more questions. Or should be, anyway-- though there is still a tendency to assume the "best place" for a kid is with her parents and to not look too closely at the consequences. I feel for both you and Sierra. I'm a little surprised , Tapati, that you were not blackballed or ostracized when you left the temple-- that's the way anyone who left the cult I was in, was treated. Did they believe you had succumbed to maya? How exactly did they treat you once you had left? Were they trying to get you back? The devotees generally took the approach that they had to entice you back, unless you were known to be in such serious maya that you were a danger to associate with. If you showed up at the temple blaspheming they'd ban you, or some other serious behavior like that. But if you'd merely left, they hoped you would feel homesick. I got a little criticism but mostly it was in the forms of jokes about being in maya. Mike had been in and out of the temple repeatedly. Suprabha was always welcomed back as well. They might talk behind your back but they didn't shun you. Therefore people did sometimes return to the temple or "surrender" at another temple if they didn't like the politics of the temple leaders (ie how they conducted things). As for the shelter conversation, it was longer and more involved and they knew what I was referring to (Mom's tantrums) so didn't feel I was in serious danger. They knew it wasn't the best place for me, but it was a few months until my 18th birthday so it couldn't be much longer. There was nothing actionable.
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Post by tapati on Sept 29, 2009 14:10:23 GMT -5
What struck me most was your mother's desperation to fix your relationship, and your need to come to terms with it in your own way. I so feel for you, being dragged back to that when you weren't ready yet. I'm betting nothing actually changed-- unless having Mike around made your mom be on her best behavior. People don't just magically fix what's wrong with them. Unfortunately. You would be right, although there was a honeymoon period where she was on her best behavior.
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Post by tapati on Sept 29, 2009 14:16:12 GMT -5
Hey Tapati! I've been meaning to comment, but I've been kinda busy... First off - BOO to migraines I'm looking forward to finding out why Mike was so willing to just jump up and split on a dime. I mean, I know it was the crazy 70s and all, but wow... and why do I get the feeling that this doesn't end well? (That last bit is rather rhetorical ) I second your Boo and raise you an ARGH! Yes, instant relationships aren't healthy ones. If you find yourself (a general you here, to all young women and men) instantly feeling like you love and know someone and want to spend your life with them, back off and do some heavy thinking. There's a whole lot of projecting going on! Think about how your history with your family might be playing into it. Attraction may be quick but true love comes only with really getting to know the person. Never rush into marriage or even living together. Take time to find out the person's faults. Imagine that they never change--can you live with those faults? Don't lose your own interests, values and identity. If it's a healthy love, you won't have to! Our family backgrounds were so similar that we quickly became enmeshed. It was not a good sign. A wiser and more experienced woman would not have stayed with him more than a few weeks. Some of the hardest parts for me to write have been these two pieces because I have to describe falling in love although I know what came later. It's hard to remember all the things that drew me to him. It should have been a high school dating relationship, the "bad boy" (or girl) you date before you grow up a little.
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Post by tapati on Sept 29, 2009 14:17:40 GMT -5
Tapati, that had to be so hard for you...going back 'home' to where it did not feel like a home. Thank you for writing this, and know it is hard for you to feel like writing anything at all with migraines. My thoughts and prayers go out for you to very soon be feeling much better! And know that all of us are looking forward to your health...that is the most important thing. In our anticipation for your next installment of the story, let us not get 'pushy' and you not overdo it. Just get well! (((HUGS))) Thank you, Grandmalou. I am trying to pace myself as best I can. I don't usually have as many migraines for a few weeks as I've been having. This has been exceptionally bad.
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Post by rosa on Sept 29, 2009 19:38:52 GMT -5
Hah! "Think about how your history with your family might be playing into it. " After three very similar and very bad relationships (2 years, 6 months, 3 years) I took a step back and made a rule for myself: no dating anyone I was immediately attracted to. Because there was a 100% chance that if I was super into someone right away they were violent, addicted, and/or raised in abusive homes.
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Post by anatheist on Sept 30, 2009 11:38:42 GMT -5
Tapati, I'm both eager to hear the rest of your story... but also wishing that it could have ended there while it looked like something good could have happened... I assume that's not how it turned out though, huh?
I think it's hard to get away from the kind of people who resemble your family or your background, because we feel that if a person doesn't share that with us, then they can't "really know us". Although I didn't have abusive parents, I was raised in a fundamentalist/patriarchal environment, and the familiarity of that scene was what got me entangled with my ex-husband.
But sometimes it does feel like people don't understand where I'm coming from if they either had no religious background at all, or if they are strongly religious.
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Post by tapati on Sept 30, 2009 12:08:11 GMT -5
Atheist in the Bible Belt: You're right, it is difficult to imagine that people can really know us if their life has been so different from ours.
I think the important thing is: has this person worked on their stuff? Have they reflected on how their past has affected them and taken steps to overcome the negatives? Were they open to therapy, for instance? In any event, I think it's important to really slow down the courtship process and not jump into a sexual relationship or living together. Even then, delay the actual marriage until you're very sure.
Rosa, I think you are wise to look at your pattern in relationships. What I experienced was that each one was a bit better than the one before it and I was learning a lot about what to look out for in the process. I also made it a point to learn and practice good relationship skills and work on my self esteem and identity, so I wouldn't just take on the interests of the other person and try to make myself into what they would prefer me to be. It's a process!
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Post by tapati on Sept 30, 2009 14:31:31 GMT -5
Bonus story for forum readers. Chicago 1976 April Spanish Guy One night I came back to the Indian home I was staying in and they didn't answer the buzzer. Someone else let me in the building. I went up and knocked at their door. I could hear sounds of people there so I was surprised when no one answered. Not wanting to spend the night on the street I kept knocking, thinking maybe they don't hear me. Suddenly the door across the hall opened. A young Spanish man was standing in the doorway, asking me if I needed help. He was perhaps a few years older than I. I explained that for some reason the people I was staying with weren't answering the door and I wasn't sure what to do. He invited me in to wait with him and his parents. They were all very kind and his parents didn't speak more than a word or two of English so he undertook to translate. After the introductions were made and I was offered some juice, he and I began to chat. It wasn't long before he was asking me, as smoothly as perhaps only a Latin-bred man can, to have sex with him! Yes, right in front of his parents, who did not look like the kind of people who would approve of such a thing. I explained my religious convictions to him. This began a long debate about why having a consensual sexual experience could possibly be a bad thing. I must say that he was quite good looking in that dark, Latin way and I was amazed to even be propositioned by him. I really had a poor body image. I weighed 165 lbs. and am 5 feet 5 inches tall. I was self conscious that I carried so much of my extra pounds on my hips and buttocks. (Little did I know that with some men this is a selling point--but "Baby Got Back" hadn't been written yet.) It was the most surreal experience, the parents, the traditional looking living room and conservative atmosphere, and this absolutely gorgeous guy smoothly trying to talk me into bed. People say that when you look back you often regret most the things you didn't do. I can only say that if this man had been my first, I wouldn't have put up with Mahasraya (Mike's initiated name) for a second. He had the air of a man who has made it his business to excel in the erotic arts. One night with him would have been better than a thousand with Mahasraya. Unfortunately, I declined. After an hour or so of this unusual conversation, I heard the Indian mother leave for her night job and I went to try the door again. Her husband opened it this time and let me in. Because he had some friends over he said I could sleep on the second bed in their bedroom, a small twin by the window. I assumed when the party broke up I'd be moving into the living room on the floor, as usual. Later he came to bed and simply got into the master bed in the same room. He started up a conversation with me when he realized I was awake, telling me stories about his workplace, a five and dime store. He made it a point to tell me that the young girls there would flirt with him. After some time he suggested I join him in his bed! I was shocked and mortified and simply told him that I was tired. He gave up and went to sleep after a time but I lay there for a long time, rigid, wondering if he would try something more direct once I was asleep. It was after this that I arranged to go to the homeless shelter for runaways at the Salvation Army. To this day I have some affection for SA for rescuing me from this situation. In retrospect, I think the wife was beginning to realize her husband's intent and she deliberately didn't answer the door because she saw it was me. This was after the man she tried to set me up with also tried to talk me into bed. When it rains it pours, I guess. Just a short while after leaving their home and moving into the Salvation Army, I spent that day with Mike and fell in love.
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Post by rosa on Sept 30, 2009 23:46:11 GMT -5
That story about your employer makes me so mad, Tapati. First that he would proposition you, when you were so vulnerable...and then if it's true that she would punish you for what she suspected he was going to do. Disgusting. We did the first few steps of host home training for offering a home to a homeless adult teen (we're not going to do it yet, though) and one of the things they talked about was, how are you going to respond if the kid comes on to you? Because so many homeless kids are sexually exploited, they pretty much expect it/have to try it to see if you're one of the exploiters.
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Post by tapati on Oct 1, 2009 0:44:25 GMT -5
They weren't really my employers, just a place to stay, although the lady of the house had hoped I'd be around to help out. I did help her one day before I went out.
I was arranging to stay with the Jewish family and care for their three sons. I doubt this kind of thing would have happened with them.
Yes, homeless teens are ripe for exploitation and I was pretty lucky no one decided to use force.
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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Oct 1, 2009 7:17:05 GMT -5
Bonus story for forum readers. Chicago 1976 April Spanish Guy Wow, Tapati ~ thanks for adding this to your story for us. I sure would be interested to know what your religious beliefs taught about sex outside of marriage ~ I'm assuming it's something similar to the Christian ideal of preserving a girl's purity for her husband. What about the guys? I know that technically, the same ideal applies equally to males, but in practice ~ it just seems that noone cares about a guy losing his virginity nearly to the same degree that they obsess about the critical importance of female virginity. Well ~ I'm wishing now that you'd have gone for it with the Spanish guy! ;D
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Post by tapati on Oct 1, 2009 13:23:48 GMT -5
Bonus story for forum readers. Chicago 1976 April Spanish Guy Wow, Tapati ~ thanks for adding this to your story for us. I sure would be interested to know what your religious beliefs taught about sex outside of marriage ~ I'm assuming it's something similar to the Christian ideal of preserving a girl's purity for her husband. What about the guys? I know that technically, the same ideal applies equally to males, but in practice ~ it just seems that noone cares about a guy losing his virginity nearly to the same degree that they obsess about the critical importance of female virginity. Well ~ I'm wishing now that you'd have gone for it with the Spanish guy! ;D You are right, we were supposed to wait until marriage, and so were guys. That of course is also what I was taught as a child in Iowa in the 60s. Then came the 70s and the highly publicized sexual revolution. I was kind of vacillating between the two points of view, and at the least felt I should be in love with the person I first had sex with. I really romanticized it. Assuming Spanish guy used a condom, I wish I had too. Though I'm not sure where--would he have taken me into his room right in front of his parents? They might not understand English but I'm sure they'd have grasped the implications of that!
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Post by xara on Oct 3, 2009 12:23:55 GMT -5
Tapati, I hope you are feeling better. Migraines suck. I used to have them all the time. In high school I had a grand total of 6 days in four years that DIDN'T have a migraine, so I feel for you. I finally figured out that diet pop was causing them. Now I still have one now and then, but nothing like when I was younger.
Thank you from sharing your story. It is good to hear each other's stories.
*Hugs*
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Post by arietty on Oct 22, 2009 17:24:31 GMT -5
btw Tapati I always loved Heart when I was a teenager
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