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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Nov 15, 2009 22:40:06 GMT -5
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Post by kisekileia on Nov 15, 2009 23:09:01 GMT -5
“Why do you make me do this? You should’ve known better!” WOW. Talk about an abusive mentality--he's not accepting responsibility for his actions even in "apology".
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Post by barbaraw on Nov 16, 2009 1:57:02 GMT -5
Unless I'm reading it wrong (which I may well be doing), I think that Tapati uses two different names for Mike's eldest child. Someone may want to check into that.
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 2:04:59 GMT -5
“Why do you make me do this? You should’ve known better!” WOW. Talk about an abusive mentality--he's not accepting responsibility for his actions even in "apology". He often said things like that after a beating. One sign of an abuser is someone who externalizes rather than accepts responsibility for their actions. He did this with nearly everything. Really nothing is ever his fault. He's just the helpless victim of fate and the people around him--even the U.S. government. I'm transcribing some of his old letters right now and it really is amazing to see. (Though I can't use them directly they are useful for information and to paraphrase.)
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Post by margybargy on Nov 16, 2009 3:11:03 GMT -5
I once hired a guy who turned out to have a mentality like this. Everything was somebody else's fault and, believe me, he never failed to tell us all about it. Things got so bad I eventually had him escorted off the premises by a couple of Sherriff's Deputies. Being married to such a creature....I can't imagine it. Makes me nervous about what comes next in your story.
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Post by grandmalou on Nov 16, 2009 6:13:07 GMT -5
Oh, Tapati; This is such a sad part of your story...trying so hard to do what you thought was right, and getting blamed for all the bad things that transpired. Did you ever find out if you had a concusssion or not? Poor lady! (((HUGS))) Sort of OT, but when my mother was a young girl, her family owned a cabin at Big Bear Lake...beautiful picture, BTW. Grandpa and all his siblings (there were nine altogether) went into partnership and bought it as a vacation place. Mom used to talk about that cabin a lot!
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 6:44:06 GMT -5
I once hired a guy who turned out to have a mentality like this. Everything was somebody else's fault and, believe me, he never failed to tell us all about it. Things got so bad I eventually had him escorted off the premises by a couple of Sherriff's Deputies. Being married to such a creature....I can't imagine it. Makes me nervous about what comes next in your story. Yes it was impossible to ever get him to take responsibility for anything he did. Any apology was really an act of manipulation rather than a sincere act, and any wrongdoing was likely to be repeated. I don't want to give anything away, but you're right that nothing good can ultimately come from a union with such a man.
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 7:01:44 GMT -5
Oh, Tapati; This is such a sad part of your story...trying so hard to do what you thought was right, and getting blamed for all the bad things that transpired. Did you ever find out if you had a concusssion or not? Poor lady! (((HUGS))) Last year I had an MRI that showed scars on the surface of my brain. The doctor asks, "Have you had any brain trauma? An accident maybe?" I reply, "Well, years ago in my first marriage I was hit in the head repeatedly. Once my head hit the wall and I had a splitting headache for three days. He was a martial artist and usually hit me in the head." Doctor: "It looks like you have some scar tissue on your brain," (he shows me where on the side and on the back of my head--two spots) "here and here. It wouldn't interfere with your brain's functions or anything like that." (Uh, that's nice to know.) Me: "Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised." Not long after this I read an article about dementia in former football players who had repeated blows to the head and how examination of their brains post mortem had shown diffuse damage throughout their brain that would not show up on MRI or CT scans. Here is a description of the cause: CTE* is characterized by the build-up of a toxic protein called tau in the form of neurofibrillary tangles (NFTs) and neuropil threads (NTs) throughout the brain. The abnormal protein initially impairs the normal functioning of the brain and eventually kills brain cells. Early on, CTE sufferers may display clinical symptoms such as memory impairment, emotional instability, erratic behavior, depression and problems with impulse control. However, CTE eventually progresses to full-blown dementia. Although similar to Alzheimer's disease, CTE is an entirely distinct disease.I have some of these symptoms and I can't count how many serious blows to the head I received but I'm sure they equal or surpass those of any football player. I can't help but wonder what my brain will reveal when I die. *Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.htmlwww.sciencecodex.com/member_of_nfl_hall_of_fame_diagnosed_with_degenerative_brain_diseaseIt was stunningly beautiful up there and I wish I could have seen it under better circumstances. But I did my share of staring at the view.
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 7:08:00 GMT -5
Also, if there is one thing I learned after my son's traumatic brain injury (bicycle accident as a teen) it's that it is NEVER safe to hit someone in the head. Any time there is a serious blow to the head a person should be carefully observed and possibly checked out by medical personnel even if there was no loss of consciousness.
All it takes is a blow to just the right spot where an artery can be injured and start either a slow or rapid bleed inside the brain. (A slow bleed can take place that causes no immediate symptoms but over hours or even days builds up to a dangerous level.)
Everyone should be taught that hitting someone in the head can cause permanent injury or death. There have been tragic cases of teenagers going to prison for a fist fight that a couple of years earlier would have gotten them sent to a principal's office. Suddenly they have a growth spurt and the violence they can do is in a whole new category but their mind hasn't adjusted to the new reality.
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Post by grandmalou on Nov 16, 2009 7:13:18 GMT -5
Thank you for this info, Tapati; I will definitely look this up. I wonder if this may be why you (and I) have such horrible migraines? Wayne played football in HS, also was in a serious auto accident when he was 18, with open head trauma...his girl friend was killed in that accident. He shows signs now of dementia, but then again that may be due to heart (CHF) and not getting enough oxygen to his brain. So many things to think about!
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Post by grandmalou on Nov 16, 2009 7:28:47 GMT -5
Also, if there is one thing I learned after my son's traumatic brain injury (bicycle accident as a teen) it's that it is NEVER safe to hit someone in the head. Any time there is a serious blow to the head a person should be carefully observed and possibly checked out by medical personnel even if there was no loss of consciousness. All it takes is a blow to just the right spot where an artery can be injured and start either a slow or rapid bleed inside the brain. (A slow bleed can take place that causes no immediate symptoms but over hours or even days builds up to a dangerous level.) Everyone should be taught that hitting someone in the head can cause permanent injury or death. There have been tragic cases of teenagers going to prison for a fist fight that a couple of years earlier would have gotten them sent to a principal's office. Suddenly they have a growth spurt and the violence they can do is in a whole new category but their mind hasn't adjusted to the new reality. I get boiling, hopping mad at people I've seen when they hit their children (or anybody) anywhere except maybe a well-padded bottom. I sure hope your son is doing well now. Mom broke a Pyrex pie plate over my head when I was 15...it had a coconut cream pie in it. To this day I hate the sight of coconut cream pie...
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Post by sigaliris on Nov 16, 2009 7:49:44 GMT -5
Oh, Tapati, I got such a sad feeling reading this. It brought back those times of just scrambling along, trying to make it from day to day, always hoping that the next situation would be better. I felt sad for that young girl you were, with so much hope and trust that was always being betrayed. The only comforting thing is that you have come through it and you are who you are now, someone who takes care of herself and won't be fooled again.
When I heard that Mike was a martial artist, and yet he hit you, I was just sickened. I trained as a martial artist, and we were taught over and over again that our skills could never be used to hurt the innocent. Any decent instructor teaches integrity as well as physical skills. In my tae kwon do school, we had to take the student oath at the beginning of every class. This included: "I shall observe the tenets of tae kwon do and the ethical rules. I shall respect instructors and seniors. I shall never misuse tae kwon do. I will be a champion of freedom and justice. I will build a more peaceful world." A martial artist KNOWS that a single blow can kill a person. And yet he would strike his pregnant wife. I'm so sorry. I dream of the day when every girl child grows up knowing her own value so well that a man would never get a second chance--or even a first--to hit her.
(And yet, my instructor, who talked such a good talk about courtesy and integrity, turned out to be an abuser himself. But that's another story.)
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Post by jemand on Nov 16, 2009 10:26:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty horrified at this last one (and grandmalou's story of the pyrex plate.... PYREX, I don't think I've EVER managed to break one of those. And over someone's *head?*).
I just can't imagine what it would be like. I've never been hit in the head... well other than strength testing type fights with by brother growing up where we would mostly wrestle but sometimes slap. When we were barely teens once he slapped the side of my head, really not terribly hard, but it rang and hurt (and we decided we were too strong for the game.) That was an open handed slap which wasn't hard at all, and it *hurt!*
I can't imagine the damage and pain someone who *actually intended* to harm would make. Even my ex bf who was a victim of fate and everyone else and wasn't responsible for stuff wasn't physically violent. (maybe I just got out quickly enough)
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 14:42:40 GMT -5
Oh, Tapati, I got such a sad feeling reading this. It brought back those times of just scrambling along, trying to make it from day to day, always hoping that the next situation would be better. I felt sad for that young girl you were, with so much hope and trust that was always being betrayed. The only comforting thing is that you have come through it and you are who you are now, someone who takes care of herself and won't be fooled again.
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 14:44:25 GMT -5
I get boiling, hopping mad at people I've seen when they hit their children (or anybody) anywhere except maybe a well-padded bottom. I sure hope your son is doing well now. Mom broke a Pyrex pie plate over my head when I was 15...it had a coconut cream pie in it. To this day I hate the sight of coconut cream pie... Oh Grandmalou...{{{hugs}}} It would not surprise me if you had a concussion after that! I am so sorry that she did that to you.
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Post by tapati on Nov 16, 2009 14:48:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty horrified at this last one (and grandmalou's story of the pyrex plate.... PYREX, I don't think I've EVER managed to break one of those. And over someone's *head?*). I just can't imagine what it would be like. I've never been hit in the head... well other than strength testing type fights with by brother growing up where we would mostly wrestle but sometimes slap. When we were barely teens once he slapped the side of my head, really not terribly hard, but it rang and hurt (and we decided we were too strong for the game.) That was an open handed slap which wasn't hard at all, and it *hurt!* I can't imagine the damage and pain someone who *actually intended* to harm would make. Even my ex bf who was a victim of fate and everyone else and wasn't responsible for stuff wasn't physically violent. (maybe I just got out quickly enough) It is really shocking to be hit in the head repeatedly like that. It felt like explosions from the inside out somehow. Besides the emotional damage such violence does, and whatever long term effects, in the short term one is in shock and just dazed, trying to take in what just happened. Eventually I learned that I could protect my head once a beating began by getting onto the floor with my back against a wall, knees drawn up, and covering my head with my hands and arms, face bowed towards my knees. This really enraged him because he couldn't do what he wanted to do, since blows against my arms and legs weren't as effective. That of course says a lot about him and how much he'd deteriorated mentally over time.
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Post by jemand on Nov 16, 2009 15:00:56 GMT -5
oh yeah and tapati? Since you were comparing the head trauma to football players... men are on average more likely to have thicker skulls, it's one effect of testosterone I think... and my guess is foot ball players are above average even for men. So, it's just insane the amount of long term damage that he could have been doing to you, and he never even considered it or cared. Or what was happening to grandmalou as a child (again, thinner skull...)
I just can't imagine what it would be like living through that.
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Post by margybargy on Nov 16, 2009 17:20:25 GMT -5
Plus football players wear protective gear and get immediate medical attention and they have fans goo-gooing all over them. I'm a big football fan, BTW. I think they should have all that good stuff, but it's a major contrast to how battered wives and abused kids are treated.
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Post by tapati on Nov 17, 2009 14:15:32 GMT -5
oh yeah and tapati? Since you were comparing the head trauma to football players... men are on average more likely to have thicker skulls, it's one effect of testosterone I think... and my guess is foot ball players are above average even for men. So, it's just insane the amount of long term damage that he could have been doing to you, and he never even considered it or cared. Or what was happening to grandmalou as a child (again, thinner skull...) I just can't imagine what it would be like living through that. A thicker skull would help prevent skull fracture, that's true. But much of head injury is about the brain bouncing inside it's water-filled environment and hitting the inside of the skull, creating the bruising and broken blood vessels or arteries of major or minor damage. In a more severe brain trauma, the brain then swells inside the skull, causing further damage as it presses against the confined space. That's why often if brain surgery is performed they remove a flap of the skull to allow the brain space to swell without further injury, as they did in the case of my son's injury. Ironically, they then require the patient to wear a soft helmet in bed and a hard shell helmet when out of bed until approximately a year later when they replace the skull flap. So he wanted to ditch his bicycle helmet and ended up wearing one 24/7. If only he'd known... I don't think most people understand the mechanics of traumatic brain injury unless they encounter such information after a family member has been injured. I certainly didn't know the full dangers or I might have left much sooner. If there is one thing I did have some confidence in it was my intelligence and I wouldn't have knowingly risked that to the degree I did had I been informed. As the story progresses I'm certainly going to attempt to portray what it IS like to go through that.
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Post by tapati on Nov 17, 2009 14:19:17 GMT -5
Plus football players wear protective gear and get immediate medical attention and they have fans goo-gooing all over them. I'm a big football fan, BTW. I think they should have all that good stuff, but it's a major contrast to how battered wives and abused kids are treated. Yeah I could have used that protective gear! Though I don't think I'd have been given time to put it on...
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Post by margybargy on Nov 17, 2009 16:43:18 GMT -5
Plus football players wear protective gear and get immediate medical attention and they have fans goo-gooing all over them. I'm a big football fan, BTW. I think they should have all that good stuff, but it's a major contrast to how battered wives and abused kids are treated. Yeah I could have used that protective gear! Though I don't think I'd have been given time to put it on... Protective gear, running shoes, and a stun gun. Your story and your comments about brain trauma have really got me thinking.
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Post by sigaliris on Nov 17, 2009 20:57:11 GMT -5
Tapati, you said this:
I think it's not enough to talk about ethics. I think if one is going to teach such lethal skills that anger management techniques and domestic violence should be addressed openly and even before the actual martial arts training begins. Each martial arts studio should have a relationship with some agency that teaches anger management and domestic violence counseling
I completely agree. Knowing what I know now, I question most of what I was told while training. I think martial arts in general is just another arm of the patriarchy and has all the outstanding faults of patriarchal organizations, including a great propensity to glorify themselves while denying the vicious abuse that is taking place. The other "masters" (and right there is a word I don't like any more!) in our area were clearly dishonest and thuggish. But not our master! Oh, no, he was so much better. Yeah. Until I found out the truth about him. I wish there were some way to hold instructors accountable for what men do with the information the instructors give about how to hurt people. I think I benefited greatly from learning to defend myself. But the other stuff that went on there was damaging.
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ronja
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by ronja on Nov 19, 2009 14:55:13 GMT -5
Tapati, you said this: I think it's not enough to talk about ethics. I think if one is going to teach such lethal skills that anger management techniques and domestic violence should be addressed openly and even before the actual martial arts training begins. Each martial arts studio should have a relationship with some agency that teaches anger management and domestic violence counselingI completely agree. Knowing what I know now, I question most of what I was told while training. I think martial arts in general is just another arm of the patriarchy and has all the outstanding faults of patriarchal organizations... The idea of martial arts studios/clubs cooperating with domestic violence counselors is excellent! I also liked my sensei's approach a lot. He was viewed as an "oddball" by many in the Ju-Jitsu circles, because he flat refused to teach even one kick or blow during the basic course: for ten weeks we learned how to fall safely in various directions (ukemi) and how to get ourselves free from different grips. He spoke endlessly about how getting loose quick and running away fast were the best defense. This bored the thuggish types to tears, and by the end of the ten weeks none of them were left. ;D Unfortunately they could easily find another club, where the standards were totally different. :-( Warm thoughts - and, when they are welcome, also lots of ((((hugs)))) Ronja PS: If I seem overly cautious about cyber-hugs, it's because I've seen a bit too much of what physical and/or sexual abuse can do to humans' (and our fellow animals') reactions to attempts to touch, so I'd rather be a bit odd than cause a cyber-version of someone shrinking away from my outstretched hand in half-panic or worse.
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Post by tapati on Nov 19, 2009 17:03:09 GMT -5
I haven't read martial arts mags in years (bad memories) but I wonder if this issue is mentioned in them these days?
Ronja, I love the idea of weeding out the thugs by not immediately gratifying their wish to learn strikes and kicks! How wise! And what a good person to value ethical students over lots of students giving you their money!
--and I always welcome cyberhugs.
Sigaliris, I don't know about legally holding the instructor accountable but I wonder if a system of reporting could be instituted where a student gets blackballed at martial arts establishments when he is convicted of assault or other violent crimes or has a domestic violence charge?
--At the very least, instructors should say up front that if they ever learn that their students have misused their skills they will not teach them again.
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Post by tapati on Nov 19, 2009 17:37:29 GMT -5
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