|
Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Aug 9, 2009 19:44:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kisekileia on Aug 10, 2009 1:06:20 GMT -5
Vyckie, I like the Wordpress site, but it's not possible to tell that the new blog entry is by Erika unless you look at the tags or figure it out from the pictures. It would be nice if instead of each entry saying "by nolongerquivering", each entry could actually list the author in the byline.
|
|
|
Post by tapati on Aug 10, 2009 20:36:41 GMT -5
I noticed that too.
I haven't had a chance to read the new one yet but I look forward to it!
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Aug 10, 2009 20:39:39 GMT -5
I really liked this story. I'm glad you had the opportunity to travel to Africa. Do you think that taste of independence and view of another culture helped you leave when you did?
|
|
|
Post by stampinmama on Aug 10, 2009 21:20:55 GMT -5
I really liked this story. I'm glad you had the opportunity to travel to Africa. Do you think that taste of independence and view of another culture helped you leave when you did? It didn't really dawn on me back when I left, but yes, looking back it definitely did. Since then, my husband and I have done a lot of traveling and now I've been to 14 countries total. Much our of decorating in our living room is of things we've brought back from our travels. Our children don't really know much of the modern pop music because they love listening to our huge variety of cultural music. When my daughter was asked what her favorite song was, she answered with a Gaelic song title. One of my passions is to see my kids travel and embrace diversity and other cultures. We'll be taking them to Italy next fall and they're really excited about it. My trip to Africa gave me such an appreciation for other cultures and I realized that while I thought I was rich monetarily to them, they were richer than I was in their outlook and appreciation for life. Things changed for me on that trip and it was a lesson that I've taken with me throughout life. My husband found that same lesson when we went to Ecuador in 2000. But yes....I never forgot what the freedom felt like and I longed for it the whole time I was held back in the patriarchal lifestyle.
|
|
|
Post by tapati on Aug 11, 2009 19:00:31 GMT -5
Vyckie, I like the Wordpress site, but it's not possible to tell that the new blog entry is by Erika unless you look at the tags or figure it out from the pictures. It would be nice if instead of each entry saying "by nolongerquivering", each entry could actually list the author in the byline. I noticed this too and figured the software simply reflects that it has been posted by admin, "nolongerquivering." So maybe the text needs to have the names of guest bloggers up at the top so that readers are oriented as to whose lives they are reading about, otherwise they'll get massively confused as they bop back and forth between Vyckie's life, Erika's life, Laura's life, and mine! It all becomes clear at the bottom but by then they've struggled through the entire post.
|
|
|
Post by tapati on Aug 11, 2009 19:12:03 GMT -5
Erika, I'm curious about what your parents said they liked about this new church and what they disliked about the local one? In terms of doctrine, I mean. The descriptions of the two make the local one sound much more homey and...well, sane. The services at the new church would put me to sleep, most likely, even when I was a Christian. I love the Little House on the Prairie reference! LOL! Though I'm sorry it became your reality to live through.
I love how you could immediately see the power dynamics. Couldn't every one else? Or was it like the elephant in the room--everyone know but no one felt safe to say it out loud?
|
|
|
Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Aug 11, 2009 20:40:00 GMT -5
Here's something I've been thinking about ~ I wonder if it is mostly the daughters who were older when the QF lifestyle was adopted by their parents who struggle more and end up questioning, rebelling and leaving.
Angel was about 7 or 8 when we really got deep into the QF/P lifestyle ~ so even though she was always homeschooled, she had participated in the church youth activities, she in most ways had a "normal" childhood ~ and then, all the sudden (from her perspective at least) it was all taken away from her.
From my observations, the girls who have lived this way all their lives generally do not rebel ~ they accept and embrace the worldview and lifestyle ~ they are the "maidens of virtue" who never question whether God might have another plan for their lives besides marrying young and having all the children with which the Lord will bless them.
What do you think, Erika ~ have you noticed this too?
|
|
|
Post by grandmalou on Aug 13, 2009 7:34:28 GMT -5
Erika; Thank you so much for your most recent article! Your story is just amazing, how you've overcome the adversities in your life and turned them into something positive for yourself and your family! Strong woman, you go, Girl! Blessings! One of my dreams when a little girl was to go to Africa and live. I was wild about horses growing up, and never could figure out why the people over there walked everywhere, when they had these perfectly good zebras to gentle down and ride! Why is that, do you suppose? (((HUGS)))
|
|
|
Post by proserpina on Aug 13, 2009 8:47:49 GMT -5
Just stumbled on this blog via a link from Religion Dispatch... Erika, I'm fascinated with your family visiting the Town Hall basement church in Bellows Falls. I'm from BF, and my family too visited that church a few times (I was elementary school age). We were from another local church not quite as conservative, but close. I remember that when we got to service there, one of the elders put his chair in front of the door and sat there propping it closed. Clearly, no one was allowed to go out during service!
I think my parents, who started in the more mainstream/community christian churches, wound up in those very conservative churches because they believed the bible & wanted to live their faith with no excuses. Somehow being passionate about something that was supposed to be "freedom" turned into being passionate for binding yourself up as tightly as possible in the name of freedom. Did your family start that conservative? How does that transition happen?
|
|
|
Post by stampinmama on Aug 13, 2009 21:50:03 GMT -5
Just stumbled on this blog via a link from Religion Dispatch... Erika, I'm fascinated with your family visiting the Town Hall basement church in Bellows Falls. I'm from BF, and my family too visited that church a few times (I was elementary school age). We were from another local church not quite as conservative, but close. I remember that when we got to service there, one of the elders put his chair in front of the door and sat there propping it closed. Clearly, no one was allowed to go out during service! I think my parents, who started in the more mainstream/community christian churches, wound up in those very conservative churches because they believed the bible & wanted to live their faith with no excuses. Somehow being passionate about something that was supposed to be "freedom" turned into being passionate for binding yourself up as tightly as possible in the name of freedom. Did your family start that conservative? How does that transition happen? No way! Really? When was it that you visited? What year? I don't remember any instances when we were going that an elder sat against the door, but we only went there for a year and a half (until my parents couldn't afford the 3 hour round trip to church every Sunday and it was taking a toll on our old station wagon). I know that the church went through a split and changes in leadership over the years after we left and it's still going through changes, from what I hear. I don't doubt at all that someone sat at the door, though. The people that have been in leadership over the years there have been a bit cracked in the head. You're absolutely right about people binding themselves up and thinking it's all about being "free." They don't realize that they sacrifice freedom for a pair of shackles when they get into these movements. Life becomes all about rules, all about appearances and all about restrictions and legalism. My family didn't start out conservative. If you go back and read my first installment, you'll read about how my family was actually pretty mainstream. My parents were drawn to it for the same reasons your parents were.....living for Christ with no excuses. It was all or nothing for them. They dove in head first when hoodwinked by a charlatan. They were presented a pretty picture of familial perfection and they took the bait.
|
|
|
Post by stampinmama on Aug 13, 2009 23:21:24 GMT -5
Erika; Thank you so much for your most recent article! Your story is just amazing, how you've overcome the adversities in your life and turned them into something positive for yourself and your family! Strong woman, you go, Girl! Blessings! One of my dreams when a little girl was to go to Africa and live. I was wild about horses growing up, and never could figure out why the people over there walked everywhere, when they had these perfectly good zebras to gentle down and ride! Why is that, do you suppose? (((HUGS))) GrandmaLou - you had me cracking up about the zebras. Hey, they rode one on Swiss Family Robinson....why couldn't they in Africa, right? They even rode and ostrich on that movie! I feel like my family, even though we've been to patriarchal hell and back, is one of the fortunate ones that came out of still loving each other and still talking to each other and continuing to be close. It wasn't always like that, but there's been a lot of reconciliation and healing over the years. That's something that I wish for so many of these young people and wives that come out of it, but I know it's not always the case and because of that, I'm extremely grateful for where my family is at now. I never take that for granted.
|
|
|
Post by grandmalou on Aug 14, 2009 7:17:07 GMT -5
Erika, I quote you here: "GrandmaLou - you had me cracking up about the zebras. Hey, they rode one on Swiss Family Robinson....why couldn't they in Africa, right? They even rode and ostrich on that movie! I feel like my family, even though we've been to patriarchal hell and back, is one of the fortunate ones that came out of still loving each other and still talking to each other and continuing to be close. It wasn't always like that, but there's been a lot of reconciliation and healing over the years. That's something that I wish for so many of these young people and wives that come out of it, but I know it's not always the case and because of that, I'm extremely grateful for where my family is at now. I never take that for granted." I loved both the old and the new versions of Swiss Family Robinson! The movies, that is. Never had time, it seems, to read the book. There have been many times in my life where I've actually lived basic survival skills, and it was use them or die. Vyckie can probably remember much of them. May have told about them in earlier posts. What gets me now is most of us have way more than we need or can ever use, and we've drawn apart in a lot of ways. And when we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth, so to speak, we were in there fighting together, sleeves rolled up, shoulders to the wheel. You know, I think I was born a hundred years too late...would have loved 'roughing it' in some ways. Families seemed so much closer when I was a kid. OOPS! There's that WORD again! LOL At any rate, it is wonderful that your family came out of this mess doing well! Hugs to all of you! You know, it would be super if some of your other family members could also write posts on here...hhhhmmm?
|
|
|
Post by rosa on Aug 14, 2009 9:31:37 GMT -5
Erika, have you ever read the pamphlet "The Tyranny of Structurelessness"? It's a 2nd wave feminist essay about how informal power networks form when there are no formal power networks - it's a critique of the kind of leaderless group that church was trying to be. flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/structurelessness.htmlOn of the things the author says really echoes what you said about the leadership there: "Because elites are informal does not mean they are invisible. At any small group meeting anyone with a sharp eye and an acute ear can tell who is influencing whom. The member of a friendship group will relate more to each other than to other people. They listen more attentively and interrupt less. They repeat each other's points and give in amiably. The 'outs' they tend to ignore or grapple with. The 'outs' approval is not necessary for making a decision; however it is necessary for the 'outs' to stay on good terms with the 'ins'. Of course, the lines are not as sharp as I have drawn them. They are nuances of interaction, not pre-written scripts. But they are discernible, and they do have their effect. Once one knows with whom it is important to check before a decision is made, and whose approval is the stamp of acceptance, one knows who is running things. " (There is an answering essay, called The Tyranny of Tyranny, that argues "But what people fail to realise is that we are reacting against bureaucracy because it deprives us of control, like the rest of this society; and instead of recognising the folly of our ways by returning to the structured fold, we who are rebelling against bureaucracy should be creating an alternative to bureaucratic organisation." - but personally, I am not sure anyone has ever created an organization that prevents abuse and isn't bureaucratic) That one is here - libcom.org/library/tyranny-of-tyranny-cathy-levine
|
|
|
Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Aug 15, 2009 23:38:46 GMT -5
Erika, have you ever read the pamphlet "The Tyranny of Structurelessness"? It's a 2nd wave feminist essay about how informal power networks form when there are no formal power networks - it's a critique of the kind of leaderless group that church was trying to be. flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/structurelessness.htmlThanks for this link, Rosa ~ fascinating stuff.
|
|
|
Post by arietty on Aug 19, 2009 2:22:36 GMT -5
Erika I am looking fwd to the next installment.. it's a fascinating read.
Isn't it incredible how the desire to know and love God has been equated with giving stuff up, more and more and more stuff. And yet we would distance ourselves from the Stylites and other ascetics of old because that is clearly WORKS and we are saved by grace.
The giving up of stuff doesn't really convey to children the love of God does it. I wonder if either you or your siblings ever felt that your parents, in their new found zeal, were drawing you closer to God's love.
|
|