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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 9, 2010 13:56:52 GMT -5
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Post by xara on Mar 9, 2010 14:07:20 GMT -5
Oh, wow. No one should have to go through that. *Hugs*
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Post by Sierra on Mar 9, 2010 14:31:40 GMT -5
What stands out to me as really bizarre in this story is that your parents cared whether you were sleeping in the middle or on the side of the bed. I used to roll around in my sleep and wake up on my stomach with my feet on the pillow. It wasn't an issue as long as I was in the bed. I don't understand the 'disobedience' here at all. Did they never ask why you were huddled on one side? Did it never occur to them to get blinds for your window? It's such an easy problem to fix, and yet they insisted on 'disciplining' you for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I had an evil tree outside, too, but I was more afraid of the shadows on my wall and the spiders that crept into my house to think about the tree too much. I was also afraid that I would spontaneously die in my sleep. It seemed like it could happen so easily, at any time, without warning.
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Post by journey on Mar 9, 2010 14:54:22 GMT -5
((((hugs))))
How horrible. Wow.
I too have a conversion story at age 3 or 4 that was entirely centered on my fear of Hell. I thought this story was a really good thing for years. It wasn't until much later that I realized, truly, this "God or Hell" option is an excellent example of "bounded choice." Who really has any choice at all, when there are only two options and one of them is everlasting torture?
I still don't know how to think about it all....I just know that something sits very wrong about "salvation" as it was presented to me as a child and how it is taught in the church circles I have been a part of.
Even now, the fear of an everlasting Hell is hard for me to shake. It is hard to step outside of the box and ask deep hard honest questions, VALID questions, when you have been taught that stepping outside of the box, questioning the system, will land you in horrible torment that will never come to an end. (It's a very effective tool for gaining and maintaining a following, no)?
As for your disobedient lack of sleeping in the middle, oh good grief. That is one thing that really upsets me about what the Pearls mindset did to me as a parent (and I understand from former Ezzo parents that it was similar there, too): every little thing, every hesitation, every facial expression, every deviance from following the specific command, is to be seen as a sin no different from Hitler (because if you allow any deviance from the command, you are raising up a little Hitler).
You can hear that thought in Pearl's latest, "We're Laughing" note, where he tells all who disagree with him that their children are going to grow up to be horrid people, whereas "Pearled" children are going to grow up to be leaders and good and happy. So, when you are a new parent and you don't know diddly-squat, the absolute FEAR that kind of stuff puts into your soul... It's hard to describe.
I wish I could go back and re-do some of the things I was certain were "obedience issues" when my oldest ones were little. I did not require them to lie only in the middle of the bed or anything like that, and yet, the things I worried about and thought were marks of rebellion...good grief. The fear blinds your eyes and your heart from seeing any further. The fear was about having children grow up to be monsters because you didn't parent them well enough......but the thing is, that very fear turns YOU, the parent, into a monster. It is so heart-breaking and sick and twisted, all at once.
I changed the way I parented as I began to question patriarchy and the concept of first-time obedience and the rigid obedience to hierarchy (and all those other things that I had been taught were of SUPREME importance to God).....and it was SO GOOD to model the new way of parenting to my oldest ones, and watch them carry their dollies around in a sling just like I carried around the newest little one, and to learn, teach, and model for them that everyone in the house is to be respected, not just the "commanders/parents," etc, and to learn, teach and model for them that feelings and emotions are OKAY, not being perfect is OKAY, asking questions instead of obeying immediately is OKAY......but I still wish I could go back and re-do those years spent following the mindset of Pearl.
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hrd
New Member
Posts: 46
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Post by hrd on Mar 9, 2010 15:29:21 GMT -5
I am so sorry or you! I remember the fear of hell and Satan as a child. I remember cowering in bed, afraid that Satan was in my bedroom, because of sermons and the frequent mention of demons and "satanic forces." And my parents, similarly, offered only the name of Jesus as a defense--no hugs, no offers of getting into their bed for protection. No--only that Satan hated Jesus name, so you had to say, "Get the away , Satan, in the name of Jesus." If that didn't work, you just weren't believing hard enough.
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flah
New Member
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Post by flah on Mar 9, 2010 16:21:57 GMT -5
My fundamentalist ex-husband (bless his heart) was the son of FWB missionaries, and the family loved to tell the tale of his salvation at age 5. I never accepted that. Except in maybe a few seriously precocious children, I can't imagine that a child of less than -- I don't know -- eight or nine? -- could realize the decision they were making. Sure, it's great for the parents to hear, because the magic words have been spoken so their child will be spared the torments of hell, but I believe most of the kids, like you, were acting out of pure unadulterated fear. That's not conversion; that's coercion.
I want to go back to 1991 and give that little child scrunched up on the far side of the bed a huge warm hug, and tell her it would be okay. I'd string a hammock in the scary tree so that we could watch the birds and squirrels play in it, and if that didn't work, I'd cut the blasted thing down.
Love does not generate fear.
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Post by dangermom on Mar 9, 2010 17:46:12 GMT -5
Terrible. Why frighten children with such descriptions of hell? (I mean, I get that these people truly believe that small children who die unsaved will end up in hell. I just think it's an awful belief, just like the one about children being depraved and sinful by nature.)
I would agree that small children don't know what they're doing to 'be saved.' Nor do I feel that it's necessary.
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Post by exaparfphcacswgb on Mar 9, 2010 22:43:39 GMT -5
*hugs* I'll find you and give you a real hug soon. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I got "saved" when I was young as well--due to fear of hell. What I don't understand is why your parents turned that fear against you when you were so young. Even if I put myself in that world again, I can't understand that. If I literally believed in hell, and had a little girl who was afraid of it, I wouldn't accuse her of using that fear to get out of going to bed. That makes no sense to me.
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Post by WanderingOne on Mar 10, 2010 0:05:55 GMT -5
I'm not really sure what the deal about the middle of the bed was. Another of the rules was "unquestioning obedience" so...I don't know. I think it might have been a self-control issue.
I think one of the problems with "getting saved" so young, and out of fear of hell, is that it sets you up for constantly questioning whether or not you really meant it...so the fear of hell/being left behind never goes away. At least, that's how it went for me...
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Post by Sierra on Mar 10, 2010 5:23:35 GMT -5
I think one of the problems with "getting saved" so young, and out of fear of hell, is that it sets you up for constantly questioning whether or not you really meant it...so the fear of hell/being left behind never goes away. At least, that's how it went for me... I can relate to this. I got 'saved' so many times that after a while I was convinced I had faked it every time and therefore that God's patience with me must have run out and there was no way I could ever be really saved. I can't remember when it started for me. My church thought the 'age of accountability' was around seven, which is how old I was when we joined, but it was different for every individual. Thus, if a child came sobbing to the parents begging for Jesus at age 3, the parents would just assume God was calling their child that much sooner. If it was a boy, they'd probably take this as evidence that God was working specially in his life, and think he was going to grow up to be a great minister! Oh, and then there's that bit about being once enlightened and falling away and it being impossible to restore oneself again to God... that's always a nice kick in the face when you feel unsure of your salvation but you know you've asked Jesus into your heart before. Since he apparently isn't there, it means you must have fallen away, which means it's impossible to be saved again...
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Post by debrand on Mar 10, 2010 9:20:05 GMT -5
When I was nine or ten our pastor preaced a sermon about the end times. He claimed that blood of those who died would literally be up to a horses bridle. That sermon scared the living flip out of me. To be honest, I know a lot of Christians who claim that the Left Behind series was what led them to become Christians. So a fear of hell and God's punishment is not an unusual reason to become a Christian.
At my SIL's church, there is a young woman from a very troubled family. She got saved but because she still continued to have sex it was assumed that her salvation was not true. The poor girl was encouraged to get saved repeatedly. No one stopped to think that maybe this girl needed help learning how to live a better life. It was assumed that getting saved would make her a better student, quit being sexual active and leave all the residue confusion of having abusive parents behind.
How crazy that you were beat for laying on the side of the bed and not the middle? But I know that people like the Pearls teach that any disobedience from the child is a sign of possible future rebellion against God. This frightens parents because it means that their children will be tortured for an eternity. Also, many parents act as though it is their job to get their kids to heaven.
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Post by krwordgazer on Mar 10, 2010 22:56:03 GMT -5
That is the stupidest way to raise a child I ever heard of in my life. Poor WanderingOne.
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Post by kiery on Mar 11, 2010 15:44:56 GMT -5
*hugs* that's just.....absurd.
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Hillary
Full Member
"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
Posts: 129
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Post by Hillary on Mar 11, 2010 16:44:24 GMT -5
{{WanderingOne}} I am so sorry you experienced this. Have you found fear to be an issue in your adult life much? I'm curious because for many it goes either way ~ overcoming childhood fear makes some feel empowered and for others, it tends to spill into adulthood making things difficult.
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Post by usotsuki on Mar 11, 2010 22:40:16 GMT -5
Even now, the fear of an everlasting Hell is hard for me to shake. It is hard to step outside of the box and ask deep hard honest questions, VALID questions, when you have been taught that stepping outside of the box, questioning the system, will land you in horrible torment that will never come to an end. (It's a very effective tool for gaining and maintaining a following, no)? It's how cults work, not? Ain't gonna be that they're any better people than the rest of us, but that there's simply gonna be MORE of them. When you're in the majority it's easy to take over political office! I wish more people thought that way. I used to be very closed-up about my emotions - they came out explosively. Usually in the form of me trying to throw myself out of a window (as I attempted in 1994), or smashing my boom box (as I did in 1996), or stuff like that. It took a lot before I was more open about what I felt. Stupid machismo.
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Post by mommybunny1 on Mar 12, 2010 11:31:32 GMT -5
First, I want to hug all of the children who get this sort of treatment when they really need to be held and comforted. I can't imagine reacting to a child's fear by creating a greater fear.
But I am really curious. What is with the "middle of the bed" thing? Why does it seem creepy in some way to me?
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Post by WanderingOne on Mar 12, 2010 14:35:13 GMT -5
Hillary, fear is something that I struggle with a lot. Just as an example, I was taught that everything I did had MAJOR CONSEQUENCES that would echo into eternity...and that the way to avoid negative ones was to accept and do what my parents/the Bible told me to do. I have a really really hard time with decision making now, because making the wrong decision terrifies me. mommybunny, yeah I don't know either. It's something that I wasn't ever able to question so I can't answer that...
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