calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Nov 2, 2009 21:52:50 GMT -5
Word! KR, that is one of the best posts I've read yet. Those are all things I learned the hard way leaving my fundie church. Never again will I allow mere mortals that much control over my interior life.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Nov 2, 2009 12:19:52 GMT -5
Almost everyone has questionable taste in music at 13. But I remembered how overjoyed I was to find a Donny Osmond CD as a grownup and knew she's someday want her old teenybopper music. Bad music and early adolescence go hand in hand.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Nov 2, 2009 11:44:22 GMT -5
My daughter decided at 13 years old to toss her NSync and Britney Spears and "worldly" music. I could tell she was conflicted about it and it was from pressure at youth group so I had her give me her Cds and told her I was going to throw them away. I stuck them in a box in the attic. Years later when she left the church I gave her the box back. She was happy I'd ignored her instructions to throw them away.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Nov 2, 2009 11:06:39 GMT -5
I once had a so-called Christian counselor tell me that my husband's depression was caused by my lack of proper submission. Later we found out it was a chemical imbalance caused by a tumor on his parathyroid glands!
And this is back when I was trying to be submissive. My husband hated it. We had so many fights about it when I was trying so hard to live up to that false image of a 'good Christian woman'. He had much more wisdom than I did on this subject it turns out.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Nov 2, 2009 11:01:57 GMT -5
The saddest thing about it is that for the last five years of my father's life I never did this again with him or took part in any of the other things he got so much joy from, like Halloween or Easter egg hunts. I didn't let my children participate in anything not approved of by the church, they didn't get to spend much time with their grandfather because he was a Catholic I believed was sinful.
I feel robbed of those last five years even though I know I could have rejected the rules of the church. Sometimes forgiving yourself is the hardest thing.
Yesterday at my big mainstream church the pastor recognized All Saints Day by reading out the names of loved ones and church members that had passed on and then ringing the bell once for each. It was touching that he would be flexible enough in this big Protestant church to acknowledge a Catholic Holy Day.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Aug 1, 2009 7:50:49 GMT -5
Were you going to mission trips through Global Expeditions? My daughter used to go away every summer with them to different foreign countries and she loved it.
Can't wait for the next part of the story. You guys have no idea how healing it is for me to find a community where I can read the stories of others coming out of a patriarchal society and finding wholeness again.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 6, 2009 15:14:08 GMT -5
I learned a long time ago that I emotionally shut down when my pantry starts to look empty. I can tell myself that there's food in the freezers and stored in the basement. But, the pantry is where I see food and thus where I have a viseral and emotional reaction to the visual lack of food in the house. I can teach my children better. But, I cannot consistently and long-term apply those same lessons to myself and shake the effects of that upbringing. I can have good moments but I always revert back to struggles. Hugs. I have the exact same reactions to having an empty pantry due to my mother keeping more alcohol in the house than food. She used to tell me I needed to diet. Now I have food issues. Thankfully I have not passed them off to my kids. Parents that withhold food for any reason do irreparable harm to their kids for the rest of their lives. Even when you realize you have this damage and these issues it's hard to overcome.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 4, 2009 8:48:59 GMT -5
I'd be completely OK with CPS intervening in that kind of situation. It appalls me that churches would tolerate children being starved at their own events. At our church it was the opposite, the kids that came from homes with no food would stuff themselves silly because the church was large enough for them to not be seen by their parents. They'd slip in, load their plates to overflowing and go hide in one of the many Sunday school rooms to eat. Potlucks turned into such a problem at my old church, the potlucks and the Sunday fellowship coffee and snacks that eventually the pastor spoke one Sunday from the pulpit about feeding your child, said that anyone not feeding their children proper amounts of food was committing child abuse. But it took literally months and months of stick thin kids inhaling large amounts of food before he got it.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 3, 2009 15:36:20 GMT -5
Sad to say I think this is pretty common in QF and large Christian families. I remember a family with eight kids that used to show up at my house at meal time a few times a week for a couple of months. It was obvious the kids were always hungry and they looked like they were too thin. The kids told my husband and myself that they had no food in their home. Dad worked but apparently spent his wages on other things. I could never figure it out because they had a nice home, Dad made plenty of money but they couldn't afford to feed their kids.
And potlucks at my old church you'd think none of the kids of the church had ever eaten. You could tell very quickly which families had no food at home and who did.
Sad that there's that type of hunger still in this nation but what can you do? You cannot force people to reorder their priorities so that their kids eat without forcing intervention from CPS.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 3, 2009 10:07:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it sucked but I could really sense some jealous coming off some of them. One of their husbands really went off on my husband one day after he showed up and begged and pleaded for me to loan him 20K to support his family and I turned him down. I'd just come into some money from an inheritance and learned the hard way that this was actually the subject of some discussion at church. The QF man begging for a loan started shouting at my husband how unfair it was that a 'mere woman' had money and his family was doing without.
I think the thing you have to keep showing them is the freedom that is available. Small freedoms like being able to chose what type of toothpaste you want, or thirty luxurious minutes to soak in the sun without some little being demanding attention. Freedom!
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 3, 2009 7:38:22 GMT -5
Good list, helpful suggestions.
There's only one little problem with that list.
The part about showing your QF friends what they're missing as far as little luxuries. At my old church the biggest bashing and approbation I faced from the QF bunch involved the fact that I had little luxuries, like a new luxury car, family jewelry, regularly went to the salon for a cut, color and mani/pedi, had a job outside of the home that took me off on business trips once a month or so. You have to be careful with that one or you've going to be viewed as a selfish worldly woman who might pollute them with the world. As long as I was wearing the calico jumper with no makeup and hair to my rump while I stayed home and canned peaches I was considered 'righteous', the second I decided I couldn't be happy that way and resumed my career it shut the down between my former friends and myself. Not by my choice either.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 2, 2009 18:03:56 GMT -5
He lived his life to sacrafice and praise the Lord and he has in his short life brought others to Christ and save lost souls leading them to his father in heaven.
But he never lived his life, never drew breath, never existed alive outside of the womb. All of that is impossible for someone not living. Was there some sort of miracle crusade centered around this poor dead baby I'm unaware of?
Sick thinking.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 2, 2009 14:13:36 GMT -5
Wow, I wish I was that adventurous in my eating!
With a yard the size of the Duggars I just don't get why they don't at least grow a few fresh tomatoes and lettuce much less other things. I have a tiny yard and I grow lots of fruits and veggies each year without a lot of effort. It would give that fleet of boys something to do constructive.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 1, 2009 18:16:26 GMT -5
pandapaws, it's down again as well is her Birthing For The Lord forum. Guess she didn't like the tone of the responses. Very odd, she seems to want to live her life for an audience but gets upset when not everyone applauds.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jul 1, 2009 18:14:13 GMT -5
The Duggars diet has always kinda horrified me because of the fat content and salt content and the carbs to meat/veg ratio and the lack of any real healthy fresh fruits or veggies but at least it's not the starvation rations of that other family. You can eat cheaply and more healthy without starving your kids or feeding them crapola. It just takes planning and....duuu,,duhhhh... duhhhhhhhhhh.. that thing lots of people hate doing - actually cooking.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 30, 2009 13:57:54 GMT -5
Praise the angles! At least she can no longer make risky birthing decisions.
Sorry, I really mean, I hope she doesn't allow this to turn her bitter and warp her now that her own stated purpose for living is gone.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 29, 2009 15:07:28 GMT -5
I was wondering how both the surgeries and the interview went. I am very curious now to see the piece. Glad the surgeries went well and everyone is home in one piece again.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 29, 2009 14:34:03 GMT -5
Grievous, lmao @ your name! it's just too ironic and funny all at the same time. Are your angles praising God that Carri survived?
Hopewell, that's where my prayers are about this, for those poor kids and for Carri. But especially the kids. Can you imagine the catastrophic upheaval and trauma this has been for all those very sheltered beautiful children? Makes me angry all over again.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 29, 2009 6:35:48 GMT -5
Very gracefully done. I, like Princess Jo, do not have the patience for that. I'd still like to bbq the midwife and do a ball-ectomy on the husband. I have the toenail clippers, dental floss and carpet needle, I just need someone to hold him down.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 28, 2009 6:17:56 GMT -5
"Along with the angles in heaven"
*snicker* yeah, I know I'm really praising the angles that Carri is okay.
"We have been asking those (doctors and midwives) who have been giving care to her since the beginning of her pregnancy what their thoughts, if any, were. "
Biggest. Lie. Ever. No midwives were called in until she was due. No doctors until she ended up in the hospital just about dead. Here's another posting from Carri's board that Carri made showing that the only 'medical' exams she was getting during the pregnancy was from her husband, who is neither an MD or a nurse or a CNM.
Any advice or tips ? I am 38 weeks and have 18 give or take days to deliever and my BP is high. We did a roll over test and when I laid on my side it DRopped which was a good sign for us to tell us that it is not Preeclampsia. DH did say may be Gestaional Hypertention...
Would like to gleam from any of you who have had this and what you did .. I am drinking over my water intake and eating the Brewer diet as best I can started on more protien today. This is my first time having it.. Baby's HR is fine between 139-145 in readings.. Thank you
This just all makes my blood boil all over again. They learned nothing, it's back to the same old same old except now they are pretending she get medical care all along. Reprehensible.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 26, 2009 8:26:57 GMT -5
rejoice, the facts are a) Carri had a lot of the precursors for AFE, multipara, high blood pressure, age with a post maturity fetus, a large fetus and a few others that escape me now. She was predisposed to AFE even if it cannot be accurately predicted who will get it.
She was nearly three weeks overdue and relying on the care and medical advice of a midwife, like Vyckies, who was advocating the type of care that has more in common with voodoo doyennes and Granny Clampett than real medicine. Had a competent midwife been her care provider she would have almost certainly been referred to a medical facility for a fetal stress test, a better ultrasound and other tests. It's likely they would have induced her labor two weeks before she went into labor and she and the baby would have been alright. Even, God forfend, if she had suffered AFE in the course of her early delivery with medical care, she would have been treated earlier and the baby and herself would have both had better odds than what happened.
Unfortunately Carri's midwife told her it was twins, told her to read a book and believes that sticking a flashlight near your vagina is the best way to turn a breech baby. That is reprehensible.
No one at this board has ever expressed anything but sorrow for Carri and her baby. Senseless death makes me angry, the neglect or abuse of a child, even a unborn baby, makes me really angry.
I personally believe the blame lies primarily with the midwife and to a lesser degree with the husband. I have to wonder how much of this birthing alone at home stated because the husband expressed a distrust of doctors and medicine stemming from the high costs and pressured Carri in a passive aggressive way to believe it. Plus, as the so-called family head he has seriously failed in doing what is best for his family. He should have noticed that this pregnancy was different than the others, Carri expressed that, and done what he could to ensure that Carri at least got a midwife with real credentials.
The one I feel the most sorry for is Carri. She'll have to live with the consequences of her failure to protect her unborn child the rest of her life. I believe deep down she knew all along that something wasn't right. She sure expressed that a number of times on her blog.
She's a good mother, all you have to do is see those photos of her kids, scrubbed, apple-cheeked and smiling, to see the kind of care she took of them. My heart breaks for her and the kids.
Stupid husband will not even hold a job. *grumbles*
I believe the husband Mark took down the blog in an attempt to hide the mismanagement of her case that the midwives did and his own lack of protecting his wife and doing what's best for his family.
Unassisted birth or fundamentalism is NOT the core issue here, it's bad medical advice by untrained lay midwifes.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 24, 2009 7:19:18 GMT -5
Well I almost regret writing that rant now. Fundamentalists have poured into the Free Jinger board willynilly to either try to point out the error of our ways and convert us to Jesus or to share in excruciatingly horrid detail their lives, births, and beliefs. I have to resist the urge to tell them to shut up every time I visit.
The problem with the Carri situation is the midwife imho. The bad midwife gave her misinformation, bad advice and antiquated treatment at a time when Carri seemed like she was quavering on what she should do. Midwives are not legally allowed to practice medicine or attend births in Indiana without the oversight of a MD or a registered nurse. It doesn't seem like her midwife was overseen by anyone or even had must training. Of all the people who's poor choices led to this tragedy it is the midwife who should be held legally culpable. If not for the crap info she was spoonfeeding Carri, Carri might have actually gone to a real doctor or nurse and had a safer birth experience.
The situation with Carri's midwife reminds me a great deal of the midwife experience of her own that Vyckie posted.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 23, 2009 11:39:58 GMT -5
I think you hit it on the head, it is 'group think', which, as we all know from extreme examples like Hale-Bopp and Hitler, can be very dangerous.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 23, 2009 8:27:13 GMT -5
Yes, Vyckie, I just sent you a reply.
|
|
calulu
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by calulu on Jun 23, 2009 7:24:02 GMT -5
Vyckie I'm shocked that your doctor didn't give you a total hysterectomy at that point! After my ninth miscarriage during my time in Quiver-ville I kept having to have D&C's to control my bleeding and my doctor told me right before the last time he did the procedure that if I had one more bout of uncontrolled bleeding he was going to do a total hysterectomy. Which is actually what ended up happening 6 weeks later but by that time I was all for it.
All the ladies I knew at our Fellowship clucked and tutted and acted like I'd lost faith in God by scheduling the hysterectomy, even told me I should not have that life-saving surgery but should wait to be healed. My red blood cell counts kept dropping lower and lower each month. Turned out to be the best thing I've ever done to improve my health, I should have done it years before.
The mindset doesn't allow for things like putting your health above what the pack perceives as 'God's Will'
There were some postings originally about Carri that indicated that she'd had to have surgery to control the bleeding. I'm wondering if it was a hysterectomy, which is probably the best way to control uncontrolled uterine bleeding.
If it was then Carri is going to go through some changes in her mind to accept it. It won't be easy. Which leads me to speculate how she's going to deal with the entire idea of invasive medical care in the first place over her ordeal.
|
|