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Post by Vyckie D. Garrison on Mar 16, 2010 7:35:04 GMT -5
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Post by ronica on Mar 16, 2010 9:20:11 GMT -5
This was the most well written, thoughtful and insightful article I've ever read on the Christian Right movement. Wow. Thank you! I hope this gets published all over the world--more people need to read this. Please pass it on!
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Post by paulamcneufney on Mar 16, 2010 9:21:41 GMT -5
Hi there!
I've been a lurker for awhile (I'll go introduce myself later!) but this was an amazing article. I've never heard the bit about Christians being the ones who took Christianity out of schools - it makes total sense to me. I can just imagine that's how it happened. I'm what most would call a fundy, but I'm fairly liberal in my views compared to most fundys. Anyways, I appreciate this post (as I do with all of your posts) and decided it was time I finally de-lurk.
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Post by hopewell on Mar 16, 2010 9:30:43 GMT -5
OUTSTANDING!!!!
FYI-I grew up in the same hometown, same school as Ted Haggard. He was a year ahead of my brother. His dad was our Veterinarian. We were all VERY surprised when the "Middletown" series was aired on PBS in the 70s [featuring two families from our school--one the Haggard family] showing Ted's father calling out the demon of smoking from a church member at the "Church" that met in his vet clinic. "Home Churching" was unknown in those days [as was homeschooling] and we only recently acquired a conservative Baptist school, so this was really odd!! We had both Anderson University [Church of God] and Taylor University [Conservative Christian] nearby and a Christian Cult [Camp Chesterfield--or something like that] The "Glory Barn" folks were big about this time, but what we saw in that episode was very enlightening. Ted went off to Oral Roberts and that surprised folks too--he'd been editor of the high school paper and which was involved in a big legal case over a series he edited on sex ed. Until the tv show, his parents seemed "normal" and even had huge teenage parties at their house that my brother attended. Looking back I wonder if they were even home!!!! They were very nice people and were well liked in town.
Very interesting though in your post to learn about the "artwork" in Ted's Church. I remember reading that for his honeymoon he wanted to go backpacking with a group of guys [or perhaps "young people"]!!!! Very sad. When I watched him speak in Jesus Camp I was totally "weirded out" by his eyes. I don't recall them being like that "back in the day."
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Post by rosa on Mar 16, 2010 9:31:41 GMT -5
Thank you so much, jwr! That's an amazing insider/outsider article.
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Post by chbernat on Mar 16, 2010 9:47:28 GMT -5
Thank you Vyckie for taking the time to process and write about this. This really explains what I have known for a very long time...entrance into The Movement is gradual. With my mother and father however, they were full-fledged leaders in our state and also locally. I have several suspicions as to why they did what they did. Initially for my mother I believe it was because of the protectionist factor...not for me, but for herself and my father. I was sexually molested by my father until I was four and this was her way of keeping it quiet. As she progressed further into The Movement, her religious radicalism gradually grew and it swept the rest of us in with it. As time marched on (to borrow a cliche') the reasons we were doing what we were doing became less and less about protecting their own reputation and more and more about advancing The Movement and promoting dogmatism. Eventually, our family were state-wide leaders of Missouri's state homeschool organization, the largest support group in the state in the St. Louis area, and they attended church with Mary Pride and Phil Lancaster of Immanuel Family Fellowship. My mom was an ardent follower of Cheryl Lindsey and the entire Movement, as you well know, was in uproar when she relinquished herself of The Movement and found freedom without. The Movement is rife full of secrets, abuse, conspiracy, and potent legalism. Honestly, the only difference between The Movement and the FLDS is polygamy. However, I suspect strongly that as these Patriarchal/Matriarchal parents clutch their adult children tighter and tighter, that that would be the natural outcome.
God Bless you for what you are doing!! Chandra
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Post by francescateresa on Mar 16, 2010 9:55:21 GMT -5
Thank you Vickie and Laura for starting up this blog! Thank you Jonathan for this awesome article.
My parents were deeply involved in the early right-to-life movement before it was taken over by the (for lack of a better term) ultra-politicized religious right. They (mostly) dropped out of the movement when it became politicized. I too came from a tributary of that well stocked pond JWR (J. Rice) spoke of in his great article.
I am passing this article on to my parents, and to everyone else that I know.
For many, many reasons, this blog and message board have been a source of healing and learning for me!
Thank you everyone! -- Francesca
*edited to expand on the bit about the well stocked pond
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hrd
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Post by hrd on Mar 16, 2010 9:58:49 GMT -5
This was a well-written and enlightening article.
I think I understand how my parents, who were "saved" in the 70's gradually turned to an increasingly right-wing focus in their religion.
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Post by egalgirl on Mar 16, 2010 10:26:01 GMT -5
I've been following NLQ for quite some time, but this article was what finally prompted me to delurk and say thank you.
Not only did I learn something about the history of the Religious Right [which has always felt wrong to me!], but it was a breath of fresh air for me as well. Thank you!
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Post by margybargy on Mar 16, 2010 10:34:44 GMT -5
Wow! That was outstanding, jwr.
I had to snicker a bit about the Religious Right making secular humanism so well known. After I lost my faith, I really didn't know what to call myself. One day, I took the Belief-o-matic quiz over at beliefnet.com. I learned that my beliefs lined up with Secular Humanism. I guess I have the RR to thank for that. Otherwise, SH might not have been well-known enough to be included in the quiz!
It is interesting and scary how forces beyond your control can influence you and manuever you into position. I think about that all the time since I've been reading this blog. It's easy to think, "Oh that could never happen to me", until you read Vyckie's story. Step by step, a very intelligent, well-meaning person gets sucked into a very extreme way of life.
You can't choose your parents or family. You can't choose where you're born or how you're raised. I suppose I was lucky because my parents were opposites in terms of religion and politics They weren't shy about challenging each other. They usually kept a sense of humor about it all. And they argued in good faith. There was no character assasination. They didn't shout each other down. They avoided hot buttons (ie. no insulting of the Pope allowed). Occasionally, they'd even produce evidence to support their arguments! We had newspaper clippings all over the fridge.
It's easy to mold people, to stock the pond, as jwr called it, if there's no opposing force, no questioning.
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Post by tapati on Mar 16, 2010 12:17:41 GMT -5
Thank you, JWR, for putting that all in one neat, well written and researched package. A related link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism:_A_Study_of_%22Brainwashing%22_in_ChinaExcerpt: 1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large. 2. Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. 3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. 4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders. 5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism. 6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. 7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group. 8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also[1].
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Hillary
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"Quivering Daughters ~ Hope and Healing for the Daughters of Patriarchy" Now Available!
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Post by Hillary on Mar 16, 2010 15:18:49 GMT -5
^^ Tapati, exactly. Many families such as these are closed groups which incorporate all of the thought reform techniques of totalitarian cults.
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Post by lovingfreedom on Mar 16, 2010 17:40:44 GMT -5
Thank you for this article. I am still processing out the QF/RW mindset and have been asking myself how I got there. This article said it well.
The greatest gift of the mindset is the incredible nine children I have. They are incredible people. The hardest thing for me is knowing the hurt I have caused them. I was a "big player". Speaking, leading worship, constantly being contacted for advice, articles in magazines around the world, blog post that I have no way of removing from the Internet, and now the loneliness of being displaced and not knowing where I belong or if I should even belong anywhere.
I would love to here from young people who were raised in the movement. What would you like to hear from your parents? What would help heal the hurt?
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Post by zoeygirl on Mar 16, 2010 17:47:48 GMT -5
Well, let me be the third person to de-lurk and join the crowd! I've been following this blog for a while and it has rung true for me in so many ways. I was never QF, but I was definitely raised with fundamentalism and patriarchalism, so I can relate to a lot here. Thank you Vyckie and Laura! Regarding this article, it was a walk through time for me. My parents were (are) big followers of Schaeffer and Dobson. They spent quite a bit of time in the 80's getting wrapped up in the Moral Majority and such, and treating "secular humanists" as if they were the boogey-man. I remember my mom telling me about 7 years ago that there were secular humanists who had private meetings specifically to talk about how to take Christianity out of the public schools. I've been in public education for 10 years and I have yet to be invited to one of those meetings! I also remember all the crazy talk about how the feminists were going to make us all use the same bathroom. The crazy things people believed in the name of Christianity. I could list more but I'm sure you've all heard them! Wow. I'm 41 now and I'm still in the process of breaking out of all the paranoia and legalism that I was raised to believe was "Christianity".
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Post by princessjo1988 on Mar 16, 2010 18:04:44 GMT -5
I would love to here from young people who were raised in the movement. What would you like to hear from your parents? What would help heal the hurt? Healing the hurt is a bit of a process. It is isn't solved by just one thing. That said, sorry goes a long way. Your kids are going to be confused. And they will be angry, particularly the older ones. It is part of the process. They might even push the boundaries and go out and do stuff which isn't particularly healthy for them to do. Guide them, don't judge. Keep strong. Stick to it. You will get there.
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Post by dangermom on Mar 16, 2010 19:11:14 GMT -5
I also remember all the crazy talk about how the feminists were going to make us all use the same bathroom. Heh--of course in my co-ed college dorm we did all use the same bathroom. But it didn't hurt me any. It was quite useful for shocking friends from other colleges, though.
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jwr
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Post by jwr on Mar 16, 2010 20:13:56 GMT -5
Hey, thanks for all the encouragements. I'm glad it could be of some help. An old friend of mine read the blog and his response was, "The history of anyone "coming out" of evangelfundism is like driving through the aftermath of a tornado." That says it all! ROFL!
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Post by usotsuki on Mar 16, 2010 20:54:12 GMT -5
Well, let me be the third person to de-lurk and join the crowd! I've been following this blog for a while and it has rung true for me in so many ways. I was never QF, but I was definitely raised with fundamentalism and patriarchalism, so I can relate to a lot here. Thank you Vyckie and Laura! The same is true here. As much as Dobson kept ranting about how you supposedly can't have a Bible in a public school? I went around my high school with sometimes two or three different Bibles and no one ever took issue. Hell, one of the Bibles I carried for a while came from their own library. Heh. I'm only 30 (and male) and it's still an uphill battle.
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Post by lauriemo on Mar 16, 2010 21:10:10 GMT -5
Well, this article finally coaxed me into registering here. I've been following for a few weeks now. The author's story strangly mirrors my own, though I lag behind him by a few years. I, too, have been wondering of late how it is that I managed to avoid the fringy extremes of fundamentalism as I did. I was a professing Christian in those days - already damaged and trying to recover from close encounters with TBN and Word of Faith pentecostalism. I read much of what passed for Christian literature in those days. I was handed a child abuse manual when I was a young parent (Fugate's, I think). I thought it was interesting, and even incorporated a few ideas, but never the beatings. One reason I can think that I didn't was that I was a single mom, and didn't want to risk losing my kids to social services. What the book was condoning was clearly illegal. Also, I really liked my kids. I don't think I ever really took the message seriously.
Later I was handed a "discipleship" manual that a class at our church was studying, and decided to study through it on my own. It was called Self-Confrontation (but I always called it Self-Condemnation)...it was later used to found a local cult (patriarchal Pearl followers no less). I found it so depressing and legalistic that I put my Bible on a shelf for nearly a decade and stopped going to church. The perfection required of me by this god was too much and they offered me no hope except in following the program - which I could not do. I sank into alcoholism and depression.
It was many years later when I was genuinely converted at the age of 40 by falling in love with the God who had cared for me all my life - Jesus Christ. I realized He wasn't the mean Trickster I'd always thought Him to be - who treated me well as long as I behaved well, but was just waiting for me to step out of line. He had actually taken very good care of me over the years, in spite of what I'd thought of Him. As a new believer I had a lot of misconceptions left over from my previous "Christian" years. Once I trusted Christ I thought, "Well now I can be good at doing all those rules! 'Cause now I love Him!" I did love Him, and finally trusted Him, but I was still missing the point, and still had a lot of fear. Whenever I would sin I'd be terrified - full of dread. It hadn't occurred to me yet that being a Christian wasn't about all the stuff you don't do. It's taken a lot of the Gospel to pluck the weeds of legalism out of my life - a lot. And the job is not finished! I'm so thankful that I was spared from these fringe groups this time around, when I was wide-eyed and full of the notion that I could do ALL things in Christ. I was vaguely aware that these groups existed - they were right there in my peripheral vision, but I didn't give them a lot of thought. My age and status of divorcee may have had a lot to do with it - and then my new husband. My ideas of what a Christian wife should be were a lot like Debi Pearl's, though I had never read her. When I expressed to my then-fiancee the kind of wife I would be (I had written a little manifesto) he was appalled. "I don't want that kind of a wife! I want YOU! Just the way you ARE!" He made my tear up my good wife rules. For that I am eternally grateful!
I can't tell you how badly learning about the Pearls, and all these other abusive systems has shaken me.When I picked up the Pearl literature to try to understand what happened to Lydia Schatz, I was overwhelmed with dread....this Pearl doctrine taught the god I was so afraid of that I stayed away from church, hopeless for years. My greatest fear in life is that God is like these patriarchal types represent Him to be. If God is anything like Michael Pearl, then I'm without hope. But then I read the book of Galatians, or the Gospels, and I'm reminded again of who Jesus is, and the light breaks through the clouds of dread.
I'm so grieved by all the pain, my own included, so many have suffered in the name of Christ. I'm so grieved at how He has been misrepresented in this world. I often feel like an alien in my own religion, because I'm not a member of the Religious Right. (Ironically, it was my conversion that precipitated that switch.) It is extremely difficult to carry on conversations (tongue firmly immobilized by my teeth) among people who assume I agree with all their political stances just because I'm a Christian.
Well, I've gone on enough. How's that for an introduction?
This was a great article. I've tweeted it and forwarded it on Facebook. I've learned a lot from this blog over the last few weeks. I thank all of your contributors for your openness. I'm impressed by the respect you show for each other in your various degrees of faith, or lack thereof.
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Post by sarahsmom on Mar 16, 2010 21:58:19 GMT -5
This was such an excellent article. I say amen! I've had a very similar experience to yours and am now getting back to loving others and being free in Christ. The hardest people for me to love now are the ones who are still so indoctrinated to the far right and seem so angry and self righteous.
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jwr
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Post by jwr on Mar 16, 2010 22:49:19 GMT -5
@ Tapati Thanks for posting those interesting points on thought control. Now that I know these things, I can start my own re-education camp and make everyone repeat 10,000 times per day, "I am an enemy of the people."
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Post by ambrosia on Mar 16, 2010 23:10:20 GMT -5
And another thank-you. It is one answer to the question I so often have, "how can intelligent people believe this crap?" I have, since being in this group, come to understand the difference between the "legalistic" point of view and the personal "spiritual" (of whatever faith) kind of finding meaning in the universe.
I thank all of you.
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Post by journey on Mar 17, 2010 0:33:56 GMT -5
jwr, This is SUCH a good post. Wow. Well done. I was nodding my head through-out the entire thing. You nailed it.
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Post by musicmom on Mar 17, 2010 9:04:59 GMT -5
jwr, This is SUCH a good post. Wow. Well done. I was nodding my head through-out the entire thing. You nailed it. Absolutely. I remember sitting around in the basement of my best friend's house in high school in a Campaigners for Christ meeting. Two people were playing guitar and we all were singing "It only takes a spark to get the fire going.....". And I just fell in love with the feeling of it. Universal love, equality, sharing Christ's love with everyone, but having no rules. It was such a wonderful antidote to the nasty high-school politics of popularity and offered some real transcendence. Still not sure if that was just the "hook" to draw me in, or whether the movement was still pretty friendly and loving back then (early 80's). Either way - wow, I sure went through the Looking-glass since then!
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flah
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Post by flah on Mar 17, 2010 9:48:21 GMT -5
jwr, exceptional post, really well done. Thank you.
I'm not surprised at your revelations that it was Christians themselves that made the schools as secular as they are today. There's a joke among dog trainers: two dog trainers don't agree on anything, except that the third trainer is doing it wrong, wrong, WRONG. Same thing with fundies; sects have split over grape juice. My opinion is that if we really want nothing at all to get done in government, we let the conservative Christians have the thing. It would grind to a halt.
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