Post your introductions here ;-)

[nikita]

Welcome Deborah! I am really glad to know you are here. This is a good place to be.

[neverwas]

I watch the Duggars on tv and decided recently to look into ATI, and was pretty much horrified with the information I found online! One of the discussions led me to this site and I've been reading it as time permits.

I am the youngest of 4 children - my mother was a Fundie but my father wasn't, I think she would have been QF if she could have persuaded him. I walked away from the church at age 18 and didn't go back for more than ten years, and then only because my husband persuaded me to look at the Catholic church, which I joined a few years ago.

I'm planning to homeschool my two children, but not for religious reasons - we can't afford private school and quite frankly I think I can do a better job in less time than the public school, and we'll have more time to travel and participate in activities and other fun stuff.

Thank you so much to everyone for sharing your journeys on here - needless to say I'm not going to be using ATI or anything like it, this stuff is scary!

[nikita]

Welcome!!

Fellow fundie to Catholic convert here. It's a really different perspective.

[lovesdolls]

Hi there! I have a sister who is "no longer quivering" and it was quite a painful experience for the whole family. Thankfully, her marriage, children, and faith are still in-tact and they left the "cult" together. I'm so glad this resource is here! I'm learning a lot. Sadly, I also see this type of legalism slipping into the "mainstream" church. There are some women in my church who I see sliding down the slippery slope and it's scary.

Thanks again for being here!

[herbgirl]

I haven't really ever used forums before, and had trouble finding the start new thread icon as another person posting here did. I am not a QFer, but have been going to a church with several QFers in it for the last three years. My husband and I have a very good marriage. He is kind and patient. He does a lot for me and rarely is "bossy". I actually came from an abusive and neglectful childhood, and my husband has been a great friend and loved me like no one else ever has. He is very supportive and encouraging. He actually put up with abuse from me before I got all the anger out of my system from what had been done to me. He believes it is his job to focus on loving me as Christ loved the church, not demanding submission from me. I can be pretty opinionated, stubborn and argumentative. But he loves me as I am. I have become less stubborn I think because of this. Anyway, we have been going to this church. Not everyone there are QFers but several are. They tried to put the pressure on me to have more kids. It did them no good. I found their theology absurd and told them so. They are legalistic and obviously don't know God. They don't know Him at all and are only follow a bunch of screwy rules that I believe God is appalled by. A man at our church taught a teaching one Sunday called "The God-Sized Family". In it he told people not to "play God" and meddle with when or how many children they have. One of the ladies who had some defect to her uterus that caused her first two pregnancies to be very difficult and high risk, and that almost killed her the third time, came up to him after and asked what his teaching meant for her. The reply was a back peddling, and that she didn't have anything to feel badly for. He didn't have the guts to stay consistent to what he had said and tell her that if she died it would be God's will. I pointed this out, and said that as far as I was concerned it proved the falseness of the idea that if you shut off your brain, your judgement and wisdom about what you should do with regard to how many kids to have and when, that God will do it for you. It blows my mind how they can take a few verses that talk about someone praying to God to have a child, and God helping them by opening their womb, or one or two places where it says he closed someone's womb, into the idea that God normally completely controls peoples wombs. That is a great leap in logic. The world is broken place, with evil, and sin and things that just should not be the way they are, but that is the way they are. I know God changes things and heals things,as I have experienced much help and answer to prayer, but sometimes you just have to work with things the way they are. God does not expect people to have more children than they can handle. Personally, I wish I could handle more than I have, but I know I cannot. Because of health issues, my background and various reasons, it isn't right for me. And I know God loves me just as I am. These people at church actually believe that God will disapprove of them unless they follow this path, no matter what, I think. I feel sorry for them, because they have no peace or joy or rest. It is obvious to me that some of them are only doing it because they think God will look down on them, and probably their husbands. I was able to recognize that their husbands are doing that from reading on this website. The men have bragged in a competitive way that they have faith for however many children God decides to give them. I am sure that there is much more pressure and emotional manipulation of their wives in private. Three of the women were going to the baby conference this week. I didn't know what it was until I read about it on this site. When I found out what it was I was appalled. Encouragement my butt. In my opinion what they did was find the woman with the most kids to parade in front of those poor woman and make them feel like they need to compete with her. I don't have a problem with people having large families. I know some who have done that because they truly were equipped to do so and wanted to. I have a problem with people being strong armed into it and made to feel that God won't be happy with them if they don't. I have a problem with people being lied to that if they have faith in God it will all go o.k. and that if it doesn't or they conclude that no, it will not be o.k., and I shouldn't do it, they are chalked up as not having faith. No, I know that God can actually show a person that it would not be wise, and it can be his will that they not have more. I can see the writing on the wall about some of the kids of these families. I have inklings that some of them are resentful of having to raise their siblings. Anyway, I have appreciated this site, to get more insight into what happens when you force on yourself and others a harsh, legalistic unbiblical system such as QF.

[nikita]

Welcome!

[littleblueheathen]

Hi, Everyone,

Been lurking for a while now and just commented on another thread, and thought I better come introduced myself. (Bassackwards as usual but that's how I roll ). I'm 48, live in the Deep South, heart of the Bible Belt, and growing up was exposed to rabid, rampant fundamentalism in the small town where I lived. Thankfully my parents didn't drink the kool-aid to the extent that they could have, although I was sent to a school run by a fundamentalist church. At this school, where I spent 7th, 8th and 9th grades, I was allowed to continue to be on a 3rd grade level in math, because, as it was explained to my mother, "How much math will she need to be able to be a wife and mother?" They then went on to say that if I took and passed Home Ec., they would work with me on the math, and I would also be allowed to take typing. Then there was the time they found out that I kept snakes as pets and they called my parents in for a conference and told them that I was in grave danger of eternal hellfire because there was supposed to be enmity between women and snakes. And THEN, when I was seen wearing jeans in town, another conference ensued, more hellfire, etc. I could go on, but I think y'all get my drift. Since then, I have had a morbid fascination with religious fundamentalism of all stripes, and that is what led me here. After reading Vycikie's and other stories, I realize I got off light.

[xara]

Welcome littleblueheathen.

[melissa]

Hi, ladies:

I am a Christian wife and mom who grew up in a strict Southern Baptist home, and when I was active duty Air Force I attended an Independent Fundamental Baptist church.

Recently, my stepmom had referred me to the teachings of No Greater Joy ministries which is very patriocentric and abusive. I have been doing much research lately on patriocentricity and quiverfull movement.

The family I grew up in is very patriocentric, but not quiverfull. In fact, they keep telling hubby and I to either get on birth control, or be sterilized ("you don't need any more kids"). We don't agree with either one. We personally use the Billings Ovulation Method which is grounded in medical science and is not against our staunch pro-life beliefs.

On the flipside, my husband and I follow attachment parenting as taught by Dr. William Sears and are gentle/grace based discipliners with our three children (1 girl - with my XH and 2 boys).

Thank you so much for this site!
Melissa

[cherylannhannah]

Welcome, Melissa! You bring back my doula days when I was doing birthwork. I was a member of the ACCP -- Association of Christian Childbirth Professionals and we had lots of discussion around attachment parenting vs. things like the Ezzo method. I loved Dr. Sears approach and baby slings were part of my wardrobe for many years.

[melissa]

Jul 31, 2010 10:43:15 GMT -5 cherylannhannah said:

Welcome, Melissa! You bring back my doula days when I was doing birthwork. I was a member of the ACCP -- Association of Christian Childbirth Professionals and we had lots of discussion around attachment parenting vs. things like the Ezzo method. I loved Dr. Sears approach and baby slings were part of my wardrobe for many years.

Hi, Cheryl!

It's nice to meet you. I am in the process of finishing my psychology degree and hoping to either get into nursing school or PA school. I'd love to be a midwife and lactation consultant at some point!

My stepmom tried to force the Ezzo method on me with my daughter. I am so thankful that I got wise with my boys.

God Bless!
Melissa

[grandmalou]

Welcome, Melissa!

Plus many other new people on this forum; sorry I missed all of you recently.
Welcome aboard to all!

[km]

littleblueheathen--I love your user name.

[sanveann]

Hi, everybody! I came out of lurkdom to post on the birth-control thread, so I guess I should bite the bullet and introduce myself

I'm Alexis, I'm 33, and I'm a married mom of two toddler boys. I'm Catholic, and I've never been part of the QF or related movements (thank goodness!). I'd vaguely heard of them, but I had no idea how controlling or destructive they were until I started reading Razing Ruth's blog. Then I ended up here at NLQ, as well.

[nikita]

Welcome to the forum.

Catholic convert here myself. It was quite a leap from Protestantism and an extreme christian cult but I'm happy. And I'm happy you've decided to add your voice to the forum.

[linjah]

Hello! I am not an ex-quiverfull mom, nor were my husband and I practitioners of extreme patriarchy - though we did try to practice a complementarian marriage for years, which i guess is a kind of soft patriarchy,, thinking that was the only interpretation of scriptures possible - we are egalitarian now. In fact, i found out about this board on an egalitarian list. But having home schooled my children and living (at the time) in a very conservative region, I saw and heard all around me the things you went through.

I first read Mary Pride's The Way Home after a friend bought it at a Gregg Harris homeschooling workshop. My friend was completely taken in, while another woman and I who went with her were kind of iffy about it. We didn't reject it right away, but neither did we accept it. Actually, it was pretty much irrelevant to me because I'd had to have my uterus removed because of a tumor after a couple of years after my youngest son was born. But I was concerned about what it was doing to people in the homeschooling community. The woman who bought Pride's book that day went on to have many children; she didn't stop until after 40 when she had a beautiful little boy with Down Syndrome. At that point, she felt she couldn't go on and finally used some birth control - though, of course, she loves her son and doesn't regret that he was born or any of her other children. I think, though, she feels like a failure because she started using birthcontol.

I guess i was kind of the home school liberal in our area, lol, though I am really not very liberal. I knew that people were in bondage but I didn't know how to help. I still don't. Only recently, a FB friend from that time was talking about these issues in a legalistic way - yet she is miserable. Some of her kids are grown and not keeping to the party line and she is heartbroken. Another couple we knew from back then disowned their daughter, though for the moment, there seems to be a partial conciliation. Why was she disowned? Well, first she decided she couldn't marry the guy her dad arranged to "court" her. Both she and the guy tried to follow their parents' desires for them to marry, but they just had nothing in common. Then, she, at 19, started going to a different church -- still conservative, but one that does not encourage (or discourage) homeschooling. Finally, she met a godly man there and wanted to marry. Parents were upset but it was when she told them she was going to take birth control for a while and probably not have more than 3 children, that the disowned her. A couple of years later, about a year ago, she did have a child and it brought about some reconciliation but I fear they will never stop trying to run her life.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the ideas of egalitarianism in marriage, but if you aren't, I'd really recommend you check out places like Equality Central and CBEInternational. I am a conservative Christian in that i believe scripture is the pattern for our behavior and beliefs. The reason my husband and I remained complimentarian (a very soft patriarchy) for so long is that we just wanted to do what that Bible said and had never heard that certain scriptures could be explained any other way. When we finally realized that there are other legitimate way of looking at husband/wife men/women scriptures, we were set free and our marriage is so wonderful Our communication is better. I sometimes "get to" submit to my husband, but not alwaysl And vice versa. i recommend you check it out.

I am so happy many of you (and I hope some of your husbands) have realized God never wanted to micromanage your job and define you by your ability to raise children. May God bless you as you continue to recover and may you help many others. Thank you for this ministry.

[arietty]

Aug 23, 2010 23:18:34 GMT -5 arietty said:

Aug 23, 2010 4:42:27 GMT -5 linjah said:

I don't know how many of you are familiar with the ideas of egalitarianism in marriage, but if you aren't, I'd really recommend you check out places like Equality Central and CBEInternational. I am a conservative Christian in that i believe scripture is the pattern for our behavior and beliefs. The reason my husband and I remained complimentarian (a very soft patriarchy) for so long is that we just wanted to do what that Bible said and had never heard that certain scriptures could be explained any other way. When we finally realized that there are other legitimate way of looking at husband/wife men/women scriptures, we were set free and our marriage is so wonderful Our communication is better. I sometimes "get to" submit to my husband, but not alwaysl And vice versa. i recommend you check it out..

Hi Linja and thank you for your Intro. I hope Vyckie moves it to a new thread of it's own so it doesn't get overlooked. I really hope this forum and blog are helpful to you since you know so many people who are in this kind of bondage.. I have a QF friend myself but I find it very very difficult to lift even a corner of the bondage with her, though I try and a be a good friend.

Anyway I wanted to ask you about the part I've quoted above. I truly don't understand why people feel they need to find a biblical formula to "do" a marriage relationship. Is there some kind of negative default position that marriage falls into that people need to look to the bible to fix? I am constantly puzzled by the egal movement, on the one hand it's nice to read something standing against patriarchy but on the other hand I don't get why people need the bible to tell them how to be nice to their spouse and work together. Certainly I know plenty of non-christians in good marriages who don't feel the need for a template to follow.

[andieredwine]

Hi Vyckie and the rest of the forum -- lurkers and posters alike.

My name is Andie Redwine, and I am a former homeschooling mom. (Homeschoolers Anonymous...ha!)

I didn't homeschool for religious reasons, but it was very difficult to combat the legalistic messages at homeschool conventions. I always felt like a second rate wife and mother, and the minute we decided to send our children to public school, all of who I thought were dear friends were no longer friends to me. So sad.

I have never ground wheat berries, but I did once have this fantasy over a Bosch machine that was deeply discounted at a convention.

With the help of some great friends and a champion of a director who is Storme Wood, I put together a narrative film called Paradise Recovered. We are starting film festival screenings this fall.

I have asked Vyckie to test-screen it, and I am shipping her a copy on Friday. The film is about a young woman who escapes a fundamentalist bible group intent on discipling her. You can see the trailer at www.paradiserecovered.com.

Well, it's good to be here. Reading your stories has been affirming and amazing. Your honesty and candor inspire me. I am proud of all of you.

Best,
Andie

[Sierra]

Andie. I am so incredibly excited about your film, I can barely contain myself. Are any of the fall screenings happening in Michigan? ;D

I would say that I don't know how you did it, but you obviously have experience backing you up. I have personally owned two of the denim jumpers Esther wears. In fact, when I escaped fundamentalism, the very first haircut I got looked just like the one she has at the end of the film. It's incredibly affirming to see a story like mine told on screen. Thank you for doing this and sharing it with us!

[compassion]

:)Hello and thank you for taking time to read this. I am the mother of 10 children and Grandma to 2 precious grandchildren. I am so thankful to find a home here. I divorced my husband of 29 years and am happily remarried to a very kind man. Thank you for providing a place for women such as I. I have felt quite alone and the divorce itself was a nightmare. I have been judged and found guilty more times than I wish to count. The children know very little of the sadness nor the treatment that I endured as I presented our family as the epitome of a happy Godly family. I don't wish to burden them or tear their father apart. I pray for love and compassion for all as we continue our journey in quivering no more.

Attachments:

[nikita]

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you found us.

[matilda]

I am completely amazed that this site even exists. I found it while doing a google search on domestic violence, and somehow found my way here.
I am hoping to find support as I am moving through a divorce from the "man" that held me down for 22 years. Birth control was not permitted, no walking in front of him, no school allowed, no church..and I thought it was all for the best.
He would get physical, and finally, I got him out. He is now with a married woman, bedding her, etc.
I took a long walk in the woods today to try and cope with my feelings. I don't know what this site is about, and a part of me is paranoid he will find what I am writing..but I want so much to find some other women who are going through what I am/and did.
He says he is a "man of God" and was so strict with me and the kids (even spanking me, and making me do "chair time" when I disobeyed) but now he is bedding a married woman?
I am so conufused about all of my feelings.
Please do not suggest counseling for me,,I have that. I am finding my way into freedom, but just want some friends who understand. It is very hard to break away when religion is part of the abuse. He broke my ear drum, but said it was my fault.
He was so mean to me, but still, I wonder..is it my fault? I wonder, am I part of Eve's line of "snake in the grass" female willfulness? I wonder, will I ever get over this.
22 years, six children, one lost baby....years at the kitchen sink crying. Anyone here?

[usotsuki]

Sounds like you came to exactly the right place. A lot of people here been through the same thing.

[nikita]

We're here. I am glad you found us.

Part of the abuse is the crazymaking -- you think you're the only one and that it's your fault because it's designed to make you think that way. But when you come here, you find that it's all so familiar -- and that it's not just you and that it isn't your fault. No matter how many times people on the outside tell you that, it doesn't really click until you can feel it yourself, on the inside. Religious abuse combined with domestic violence/abuse does a number on you like no other, it's just such a total mindf**k. That's one of the things I've found here, that sharing and talking with others who share such a significant but unusual history helped it all click for me on the inside, and it has been a healing.

I am not surprised that he is acting out of the boundaries of what he proclaims to be his faith, because this particular religious worldview distorts the abuser's soul into something unrecognizable to the 'normal' Christian person. When a system is set up to turn a grown man into a tyrannical toddler demanding his will be done or else it tends to warp that 'man' into thinking his will is the only thing that matters in life and that normal rules (including sins) don't apply to him. At least that is the direction some of these men seem to bend toward.

Welcome to the forum.

[journey]

(((((hugs))))) to you, Matilda.

A huge part of the abuse is breaking you down, on the inside, so that you think you are nothing. That makes the recovery so hard...because you aren't sure if you can actually TRUST your own self! In my opinion, the hardest hurdle of healing is fully and deeply realizing that you are a powerful capable human being, worth being loved and treated with respect. It's the hardest hurdle, but the most amazing and worthwhile discovery...because once you have that, anything becomes possible.

I'm so glad you found this site. There are many of us here, all from different backgrounds, all with different stories, but many of us are, like you, wives who were married to abusive men who used God and the Bible to make us believe that they were "godly" and doing the right thing by us...and, one day, somehow, we started waking up and realizing that something was very very wrong.

Years crying at the kitchen sink. Ugh. I can so identify with that. I have so many memories of standing there, weeping, wanting to sink down the drain with the soapy water.

Life wasn't meant to be lived like that. I wish I would have known that, then. But I'm glad that I (and you, too! know that now.

So glad you are here. Please keep us updated with your story.