|
Post by jemand on Dec 16, 2009 20:37:24 GMT -5
The quiverfull philosophy simply says, "We let God plan our family". If HE choses to give us 1 child - we are blessed and our 'quiver' is full. If he gives us 20 children, we are blessed and our 'quiver' is full. It isn't a "numbers game" it is about trusting God! How the hell are you doing anything BUT "just blaming someone else instead of wanting to take responsibility for your actions" here? You are saying, Ah, yeah, I know bio, I know we're fertile, I know the stats that unprotected intercourse WILL lead to pregnancy over 80% of the time... Aw hell, I'll just blame it on god. No need to DO anything!!
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 15, 2009 17:44:43 GMT -5
I love this thread! My "evil ex" used to ask me stuff like "are you gonna pork out?" and stuff like that. Really annoying. My current husband is usually pretty good about body issues but he does have some issues with large ladies because his mother was very abusive to him and she was large. I think he is coming to an awareness of why he reacts the way he does and that it is inappropriate to judge folks over size (especially since he carries around a belly of his own, LOL!). My ex would "joke" like that too, as well as make disparaging remarks about my hair and makeup (or lack thereof) but then also disparage other women for putting too much on. Couldn't win. Luckily for me, I actually did have a fairly decent body image and self esteem, and I think that was part of what allowed me to be independent and leave him. I'm now with someone awesome, who if I share my most personal "body issues" I'm not comfortable talking to anyone else about he just hugs me and tells me I'm pretty. Granted, that's definitely *why* I trust him to tell him stuff lol.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 14, 2009 21:31:16 GMT -5
welcome ruth! I think I found and read your blog today, really powerful writing. *hugs* to you and I hope your mother does well with her latest pregnancy.
Random rant from jemand: What the quiverfull movement doesn't have is satisfaction. It casts itself as only looking for "blessing" but in many cases it seems to go far beyond that to reach the collectors mentality which bespeaks more of greed, grabbing for every child you can, and if you don't do that, you fail spiritually. It's an insidious teaching and my only regret in accepting my atheism is knowing that there will be no ultimate reckoning where those who promoted and gained from this teaching do not face what they have created and seen it for what it really is. The quiverful movement claims to welcome every child, but it never allows you to be happy with just what you have already. Satiety and peace are foreign to it.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 12, 2009 21:03:54 GMT -5
From:http://www.acog.org/publications/patient_education/bp173.cfm Babies born weighing between 501 and 750 grams (1.10–1.65 pounds) have a 55% chance of survival. Of the babies who survive, 65% have serious health problems. Babies born weighing between 751 and 1,000 grams (1.66–2.20 pounds) have an 88% chance of survival. Of the babies who survive, 43% have serious health problems. Girls do better when prem than boys, so that's one thing in her favor. Girls are less likely to miscarry than boys too, I wonder how much the pre-term effect is the same as that one.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 12, 2009 21:02:51 GMT -5
they actually qualify for state health insurance, so taxes are paying for it. Which, I mean, would be fine, if everyone could get on that plan too, but it's pretty unfair (though that's not their fault.) At least they are lucky that insurance won't be a factor.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 11, 2009 11:08:14 GMT -5
that's so rough... I so hope Josie will be ok, but at 24 weeks.... well, it'll be touch and go I'm sure.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 8, 2009 9:58:21 GMT -5
It occurs to me that my last statement requires elaboration and is probably inflammatory. As it should be. Sibling sex abuse is a disgusting reality known to the leaders of the movement and yet they do nothing. I personally know several girls who were victims of sexual abuse at the hands of their brother. Way too many cases. The families do not react well. I've been involved in three cases where the family threw the girl out of the home for coming forward when she could not take the abuse any more - that's right, these people think their daughter is lying or that it is her fault. One of the worst stories involves a girl who basically got kicked out for the accusation, then her family decided they wanted her back to do housework, so they literally attempted to kidnap to get her back as a servant in their home. Obviously, no one wants to believe this kind of thing can happen in any family, much less their own, but its pretty shocking how the parents react in some of these cases. Personally, I think you only choose this lifestyle if you have some form of mental illness. I know this is harsh, but please remember I come from a good Quiverfull family, so I am speaking of my own family, too, when I say this about mental illness and Quiverfull. 1 in 3 women experience sexual assault or abuse in thier lifetime. Those numbers are true across all groups. Being a good Christian Quiverfull family does not protect men, women, and children from sex abuse. I wonder if on some level it is because the parents *know* they are treating these older daughters badly, like slaves, and limiting their possibilities, and the things they would want to do, so they think something like making up a story of abuse would be a valid and understandable response to what the parents have done to them? Which is why they insist it is a lie, even when their family structure not only restricts the girl's options educationally and career wise, but also puts her in a vulnerable situation where sexual and other abuse is likely as well.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 7, 2009 9:54:05 GMT -5
wow those posts are awful!
One of the other commenter's said something like "what, they have so many kids one less doesn't matter, just toss them out?" And that does seem to be what happened. They took her out to lunch and after said "nope, no coming home." I cannot believe it.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 4, 2009 13:15:53 GMT -5
I can't help but notice that a lot of these people with fifteen or so kids are richer than most of us are... those are only the higher profile ones...
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 2, 2009 22:55:33 GMT -5
Nothing I did or did not do. It was his choice. He became vastly more considerate and respectful. One recent example: Just this month, he planned a surprise 50th birthday party for me and I was amazed at the thought and time he put into inviting all my dear friends, (the very ones from whom he tried to isolate me a few years ago). It was a true and sacrificial demonstration of nourishing and cherishing me. If it was not anything you did or didn't do, nothing another woman could copy and do right, (which is most definitely true!), than why the initial disparaging implication that dumping the husband wasn't a real or good or valid solution? Such that it got quotes around it? And the feel from the post that it wasn't a good plan? See, the thing is, fundamentalists usually are not content to decide their own lives. They aren't content to use their religion to guide their experiences and their choices. They want to put it into LAW. They want to control MY life too. And when that kind of talking is allowed, than it immediately becomes a VERY unsafe space for me, and anyone else who doesn't walk in lockstep. So... for instance, the abortion topic you mentioned earlier. You are NOT judged for thinking it immoral, like I think not being an organ donor is immoral. You ARE judged (and get me SERIOUSLY pissed off) when you indicate you want to legislate your beliefs. That goes for *all* religious believers on here. The ones YOU call "safe," are so because they *don't try to push their lifestyle on everyone else.* Imagine that!
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Dec 1, 2009 15:37:53 GMT -5
Hey, sargasseosea, I am friends with scottinal and his wife. So there is already a relational context there... Thanks for looking out for us, though. Btw, I thought the two articles you linked to, scottinal, were excellent and appropriate (the first link didn't work, but is easily fixed). I think that the quote you shared, sargasseosea, needs to be read in context with the *first* article (big time). The author is not saying that staying with abusers is the woman's fault, and she expressed frustration with another article's author who openly says that it must be. The blogger also, however, is not wanting to make the mistake of saying that the women were powerless (because abused women DO have power...the problem is, they are made to believe that's not true). In context, she's about to explain why the question, "but isn't it the woman's fault if she stays," is not the best question to ask, and why. If you check out the first post, it's much more clear. Thank you to everyone for the words and thoughts and interesting observations! ah, the fact that you know each other IRL does definitely put a context into that post. I was pretty surprised at that too, including the "one of the best" without really engaging what you'd said at all, and that didn't seem to be in character with what I'd seen of scott in the chat. I haven't read the articles, but I don't really like that quote... I probably should read before giving judgment on that though.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 27, 2009 19:23:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry for what you had to endure. What a shame that non-religiousity was twisted in your case. If your life was falling apart because of practicing freedom away from God, as you call it, then you were obviously not doing your part in taking responsibility for your own happiness. I find it really offensive to accuse someone who was experiencing signs of mental illness of "not taking responsibility for her own happiness". I doubt that being non-religious was the source of her problem, but it is never appropriate or acceptable to blame people for their mental health problems. gotta read with a *HEAVY* dose of sarcasm. Atheist wrote it quickly.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 27, 2009 17:12:24 GMT -5
I am not part of any so called QF movement for the very reason of the fact that a "movement" puts everyone in the same box as yours. I don't follow a "movement" per sey. My heart was not to offend my heart was to stick up for the quiverfull movement that I live and enjoy and show that we are all not like what she describes the movement to be. What other things in your posts do not reflect your reality?
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 27, 2009 11:53:50 GMT -5
oh, no, we were never saying the Jeubs were bad parents because their daughter got pregnant as a teen. We were saying they were bad parents for throwing her out of the house because of it. Happy to clear that little bit up
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 16, 2009 15:00:56 GMT -5
oh yeah and tapati? Since you were comparing the head trauma to football players... men are on average more likely to have thicker skulls, it's one effect of testosterone I think... and my guess is foot ball players are above average even for men. So, it's just insane the amount of long term damage that he could have been doing to you, and he never even considered it or cared. Or what was happening to grandmalou as a child (again, thinner skull...)
I just can't imagine what it would be like living through that.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 16, 2009 10:26:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty horrified at this last one (and grandmalou's story of the pyrex plate.... PYREX, I don't think I've EVER managed to break one of those. And over someone's *head?*).
I just can't imagine what it would be like. I've never been hit in the head... well other than strength testing type fights with by brother growing up where we would mostly wrestle but sometimes slap. When we were barely teens once he slapped the side of my head, really not terribly hard, but it rang and hurt (and we decided we were too strong for the game.) That was an open handed slap which wasn't hard at all, and it *hurt!*
I can't imagine the damage and pain someone who *actually intended* to harm would make. Even my ex bf who was a victim of fate and everyone else and wasn't responsible for stuff wasn't physically violent. (maybe I just got out quickly enough)
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 15, 2009 1:50:12 GMT -5
it really rips out their argument against social safety nets or giving money to poor people "they'll just spend it on booze."
Well, looky that! You're text from god commands you to give those with poor and bitter lives alcohol so they can feel better! So why are you whining again?
Lol.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 8, 2009 10:09:13 GMT -5
well, yeah, unless the pharisees set up and with their power continued social systems which created the inequality and hunger in the first place I guess.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 8, 2009 1:05:43 GMT -5
hey, welcome! You sound like you have a unique perspective and a kind heart, you should stick around and post more! None of the stories are finished yet, the blogging continues every few days/weeks or so depending on schedules. As for the Bible though... I must disagree that it "clearly" teaches anything. Sure you can definitely get verses and stories under your interpretation, but they also make sense under other interpretations too. I mean, just look at all the different denominations and interpretations! It's NOT that clear of a book, at all The book on it's face really isn't clear enough to keep it from having abusive interpretations which are just as supportable from the text alone. The understanding that Vyckie and others were following was wrong because it was bad and harmful and abusive, it wasn't wrong because it was unsupportable from the Bible, because there were self-consistent arguments that in fact the Bible did mandate it. But I think we could always use more people around here who have a spirit building, rather than spirit destroying, interpretation of the Bible. There's an ongoing FAQ project dedicated to helping women leave these abusive religious understandings, if you're interested, I'm sure you could help add to it! Many women like Vyckie abandon the faith entirely, but others would be very interested in a good interpretation, and I think there's more than one non-abusive interpretation as well, so more input would always be good.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 7, 2009 10:05:29 GMT -5
I imagine it *could* be rebellion as much as getting into a heterosexual relationship that is disapproved of *could* be rebellion. I think in those cases though the teen really is probably some percentage bisexual and may lean to same sex relationships just to try to get their parents to accept that part of them more than if they just stuck to the opposite sex... But I was also very uncomfortable with that phrase regardless.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 5, 2009 12:36:22 GMT -5
I wonder if the cop had lost someone close to suicide. It almost sounds like he was lashing out because of something he had lost, rather than wanting to really listen to any possibilities of another's pain.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 2, 2009 22:01:25 GMT -5
this one made me very sad
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 2, 2009 19:45:56 GMT -5
what kind of mentality grabs a breast, or ass, or up the skirt first? Instead of maybe caressing a shoulder or lightly holding a hand and seeing if there is interest/response or if perhaps the other person is just busy at the moment? What kind of person just starts feeling their partner up without some physical/body language "conversation" working up to it?
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 2, 2009 19:37:41 GMT -5
I thought it was about addiction.
|
|
|
Post by jemand on Nov 2, 2009 9:58:31 GMT -5
can you find anything online? Thats pretty much the only idea I'd have... I'm sure there are some stores online that would cut into the store markup for underwear and yet still give more variety?
|
|