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Post by hopewell on Aug 9, 2010 14:39:26 GMT -5
Sometimes I've felt guilty that I didn't accept Christ until I was nearly 40, but reading stories here I sort of understand why now: my parents knew we had to be able to tell a wolf in sheep's clothing. I am glad too, after reading this story, that I have not forced my kids to go to Church or read the Bible--I've encouraged it, modeled it, but not forced it or tied it to treats.
Shelly, I too, am curious why after you read such bad stuff, after Celia didn't keep up with you, that you went ahead plunging into this. Your husband sounds like a decent guy--telling you to just be yourself [i.e. the girl he fell in love with] helped with the kids and, I'm guessing here, would have winced and laughed if you'd called him "Sir" I hope you explore in a further post the need you had or the "missing something" in your life that really egged this on. I get that you wanted to have the perfect family, etc. And, please, I'm not trying to pick on you--I'm just fascinated in a very sincere way.
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Post by hopewell on Aug 7, 2010 9:34:35 GMT -5
On the adoption--I'm guessing this was done with a bribe to some Liberian official. Cold hard cash but someone lost the paper trail. Just my guess..........
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Post by hopewell on Aug 7, 2010 9:25:48 GMT -5
I imagine the adoptions were partially lies--either no caseworker was involved or they were shown Nancy's home. As many of you know, I am a mom by adoption [from Ukraine]. I wouldn't trade my kids for anything, but it has not been easy. My son's issues needed years and years of therapy. Happily, I had a J.O.B. with benefits. I would have gone under paying for it all--the part I paid for alone took nearly all I had in the world.
Now, as to Serene and getting help.......... well, It's harder for a rich man to get into heaven........ I doubt she would accept help from anyone--that would be dishonoring to her Man. Plus, she spends a lot of time doing the AR retreats, etc. Could the kids be pulled from the home? If they've officially disrupted an official adoption I'd say nothing else is going to happen--every social worker in the county will have been there. But they probably just took the kids back to Liberia and dumped them in their old village. [Just my guess] I can't imagine any kid from Africa reacting well to arriving in the promised land and getting..........life in the worst village of the old country with 24/7 Sermon on the Mount added just for "fun". I'd act out, too!
The debt-free and family business mania keeps many people in this movement in needless poverty. Just like Amway the QF gurus sell people a line of crap that a "J-O-B is a four-letter word" and you need to build a business for your family so they can all work in it together. But it Dad has the smarts of a squirrel and the best he can do is to cut and sell firewood.........you are not going to be moving out a tent very fast. The Colfax family--who's son was the infamous first goat raising homeschooler who went to Harvard--detailed just how awful their life was building their home and homestead in their second book. But, as others have pointed out, you can live decently without running water, etc. It's just 24/7/365 hard work.
I've seen Nancy Campbell's "Family Meal Table" and she creeps me out big time. All those perfect people...........I don't recall any black faces in that dvd--but I barely made it thru one viewing so who knows. I imagine they are "earning" their way to heaven with this adoption scheme. Too bad they cannot just accept God's grace and send the 10K to help the whole village!
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Post by hopewell on Aug 4, 2010 13:37:31 GMT -5
Thank you--great clarification. That's a much more appropriate way to put it.
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Post by hopewell on Aug 4, 2010 10:01:08 GMT -5
Ladies--what a great discussion we've got going!!
Scary isn't it--now imagine a new mother reading all this and, in sincere good faith trying it. I, personally have tried a version of "tomato staking" [no physical punishment involved]. It did help a lot--my son WAS attention seeking and getting my attention helped tremendously. As he has grown up he's gotten a little better at not using negative behavior to get the attention he craves [only a little better] and I've gotten somewhat better at seeing his needs.
I think, even as we should criticize these practices, it's important to remember that the Moms they are aimed at are often VERY isolated. In seeking to be a better parent these can be the only resources they are able to obtain. Isolation also drives people to extremes many times.
Keep the discussion going ladies!
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Post by hopewell on Aug 3, 2010 15:52:00 GMT -5
Ok, the Islamic thing was misunderstood. I should have mentioned the public beatings, stonings, etc. No offense to Islamic parents who are, of course, well intentioned. Seriously--no offense meant.
Sierra your list gets it right. The idea is to keep a woman too busy and exhausted to think this mess through.
What struck me over and over again in researching all of this was the total lack of humor, the gut-wrenching seriousness with which everything is pursued. It's almost like thinking "ok, I have to smack the five-month old who just nursed to hard--if I don't he could grow up to be a serial killer!" These people need to just plain relax a little!
As to "Jerusha Faith" I just thought it was so appropriate! If you've noticed, the Duggar's little plaques with the "meaning" of each child's name. Look up Jerusha sometime! I've always been amazed the Duggar's don't have a Jerusha--"yet"
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Post by hopewell on Aug 3, 2010 12:47:30 GMT -5
At one Church I attended everyone would giggle and say "Babbling brook" when anyone mentioned someone talking on and on--it came from the pre-marriage counseling compatability test. I can't remember what the "strong silent" type guy was called, but Miss Babbling Brook was very famous.
You are correct--women MUST be PLEASING to their husbands. Remember, Ruth Bell Graham wore he actual wedding dress on her 50th or something anniversary! I'm sure this is how the husbands think. [Well, MOST men in fact since they are so visual!!] And, so what if you have had 18 kids in 15 years? It's just your selfish gluttony that makes you eat! And women must not "bore" their husbands with chatter about problems--they must be a positive "encourager" at all times. Always give a "good report" on someone, always use a pleasant tone!
There was so much information in the various books and articles I consulted for this that my head was spinning!! That Training Our Daughters to Be Keepers at Home book was enough to keep me going for years!! How many teens know how to "care for the bereaved?" I was always taught simple good manners carried you through situations like that, but darn if I wasn't wrong!! You've got to be TRAINED to deal with it! To pick the right casserole to take, etc!!! lol
Thanks for the nice comments.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 28, 2010 12:35:13 GMT -5
"Today at 8:52am, hopewell wrote: to andromeda: My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. Um... Do you mean this literally? I highly doubt it, given her use of quotation marks. "Sat on" seems to indicate "closely supervised" to me."
Right--closely supervised. He's a mixed martial arts guy way physically stronger than I am--I couldn't sit on him to control him anymore than I could do that with a Clydesdale!! lol
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Post by hopewell on Jul 28, 2010 9:52:21 GMT -5
to andromeda:
My 15 year old son will create this type chaos if not "sat on" and made to finish. My brother, too. It is closely tied to depression--cannot make a decision due to depression, and severely threatened and angered if someone tries to remedy it. Then they have to "defend" it so they aren't hearing themselves called "stupid" or "lazy" [even if the words aren't used, even if the spirit is a nice, gentle one.] They then "defend" with an Oppositional Defiant reaction. Example: "Honey, please finish one project before you start another--I'll even help." that statement might get, say, an outside wall removed because you've questioned him.... Therapy, if/when they will go, and anxiety meds, can take of this. Sad that you spent your whole life like that. CPS would have helped with this--not necessarily by removing you, but by forcing some order for sanitary/health reasons and would have monitored. So sad for you and your family.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 27, 2010 11:53:45 GMT -5
17 years and still not finished--I guess this is why most people get a mortgage!! lol.. I can just imagine. We had subflooring for two years after a doggie-illness ruined the carpet. That alone was bad enough! Interesting beginning to your story. I hope there will be more.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 23, 2010 15:15:51 GMT -5
Another victim of "Friendship Evangelism" the "Sorority Rush" of the Faithful. Just like Amway. Very interesting story.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 21, 2010 8:35:45 GMT -5
A toxic relationship is just that --toxic, deadly. The lady you met gave you a healthy way to cope with the end. You both benefited from your brave action of stepping out of the culturally-approved option [staying married] and taking a new approach. "Who Moved My Cheese" in action--when it doesn't work the first 900 times, you really do have to try something totally different!
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Post by hopewell on Jul 15, 2010 13:37:34 GMT -5
Seriously, these stories are so compelling I find myself checking NLQ way too often to see if there's a new installment. This one is no different--I want to read MORE and I want to read it NOW!
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Post by hopewell on Jul 12, 2010 10:49:20 GMT -5
Ok--the mother doesn't even get the comfort of her child in Jesus' arms? Some babies will NOT go to heaven? This guy just makes my blood boil--for too many reasons to list here. So all those QF Mom blogs with "and X number angels in heaven praying for us" [i.e. stillborn or miscarried children] are wrong? I hate him.
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Post by hopewell on Jul 12, 2010 10:44:05 GMT -5
I think the late husband of one of my friend's wrote that. It's exactly what he did to her. Sadly, since his death she's a new person--happy, fun, involved, "growing" in all the good ways as is their daughter!
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Post by hopewell on Jul 9, 2010 12:38:42 GMT -5
Great! Another fascinating new life story! I have a feeling I know what's coming and it isn't freedom! Hurry up with more!!!!
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Post by hopewell on Jul 6, 2010 9:39:42 GMT -5
"sir"--wow! How'd I miss that in all my reading!!!! Even Princess Diana got to call Charles by name AFTER they married! One of the many things that squigs me out about the Duggars/Bates etc is the puke-inducing gaze of devotion the wives give their husbands when they are talking--even talking about nothing. Yuck. And frankly, having dinner while someone is rubbing her hubby's back in a gentle seductive way is not so cool either.
The recruiting strategy is straight from the Amyway playbook. If they're too dumb to want something so great then dump them and they'll come begging for it. Sick.
Of course the children are robots when Daddy-dearest is home. God knows what type "rod" he'd take to them if they weren't.
I now join the chorus of "more, more!!!"
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Post by hopewell on Jun 17, 2010 10:29:53 GMT -5
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Post by hopewell on Jun 17, 2010 9:09:50 GMT -5
Cecelia is worming in just the way a seasoned Amway member would--lifestyle evangelism in action. Make a friend to use a friend. She's picked a perfect target--a Christian Mom, trying to do the best she can, feeling frumpy and fat, etc, etc making her feel far less than perfect--even a 16 year old is a better mom!! Just the way Amway quietly beats underachievers over the head with subtle "you aren't worthy" messages till they give up their J.O.B. and make Amway their life. Here we have a mom who had a "life"--husband, kids, hobbies, FUN, but who is hooked on an image of unattainable "perfection." Instead of getting herself in over her head with the mortgage and credit cards for the perfect home, perfectly decorated she's bought into an equally unreal "vision" of the perfect wife and mother, perfect kids. Poor thing!
This is simply the most compelling reading of the summer! Please post more SOON!
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Post by hopewell on Jun 16, 2010 11:29:48 GMT -5
You know, I am absolutely pro-life. But this ectopic pregnancy position makes no sense whatsoever to me. Almost no chance whatsoever of a viable pregnancy and almost a certain chance of infertility or death of the mother. This should not be that difficult a choice to make. This is not really an elective procedure.
Amen! I, too, am puzzled by this and by recurring themes from my very pro-feminist education in the late 70s and early 80s. Women ARE only valued in QF for their procreative ability and life span. I remember in watching "Return of the Daughters" my question was "Where are the wives" Burned-out, angry, shell shocked, or so sick with pregnancy number umpteen that they are of little or no use to their husbands as a "helpmeet." AND who would be under those conditions?? Intentionally lowering a woman's lifespan is stupid whether it's thru alcohol, crack cocain, prostitution or CONTINUAL PREGNANCY!
The idea of an ectopic pregnancy resulting in a live, functional baby is ludicrous! What next? I realize they usually see caesarians as "unnecessary," but will they also become forbidden?
Someone needs to get a law suit filed calling it practicing medicine without a license. [Of course, someone needs to shut down the Gothard "medical" programs, too]
This really leaves me angry beyond belief! Don't even get me started on the parents who were too self-centered and clueless to realize they were beating their kid to death.....
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Post by hopewell on Jun 10, 2010 12:41:25 GMT -5
Such a sad story. Reminds me of my Mom going to the nursing home [two states away] to see her mother and not being allowed to see her till they reached my Uncle--he had been listed as an only child. My mother's family was very son-focused, too. So sad and so pointless. After all who births all those babies--the sons?
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Post by hopewell on Jun 8, 2010 10:32:15 GMT -5
In a strange way, your parents should be proud--you learned to think for yourself, to follow God and to get on with life.
What I hear of your life--you doing the kid raising, etc, while Mama pops out another baby is the part people don't want to see with the Duggars. They'd never have had 19 kids if they had to do it all themselves.
I hope the next part of your story is about your independent life and that it is going well. Keep writing, please!
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Post by hopewell on Jun 7, 2010 9:05:29 GMT -5
Oh good--the "D" word--Duggars! Let me guess, she's been "testing" her to see if she's holy enough to join ATI/IBLP. I'm jumping up and down with excitement!! You are an excellent story teller and I really can't wait for the next installment!
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Post by hopewell on Jun 3, 2010 9:19:50 GMT -5
I am so sad you went thru this--not at all what homeschooling should be. It should be a liberating and fun journey of self-discovery. Too many people just want to grow Militant Extremists! It's good to see it backfire, I just which the kids didn't have to endure mind control, physical, mental and sexual abuse along the way.
As a on-again, off-again [by mutual agreement] homeschool Mom, I hate to see kids made miserable by the experience. My own daughter had a great year at home for 7th grade, but she was too lonely and too isolate where we lived and I did not mind sending her back to school
I look forward to your book.
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Post by hopewell on Jun 1, 2010 13:33:00 GMT -5
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