phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Apr 6, 2010 10:15:40 GMT -5
{sigh} IME, the oldest in a big family does everything but the labor pains, and in QF/patriactial household this basically gets squared as we are "being trained to become xtain wives and mothers". One of many reasons I don't have kids is that I changed enough diapers, chased enough toddlers and kept enough little kids quiet and out of trouble in my younger years. By the time I'd grown up and was out of the house, I decided I deserved a break. Big zen hugs, honey, growing up too fast sucks.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Apr 1, 2010 22:39:59 GMT -5
{{{{{RUTH}}}}} Happy Birthday, Hon!
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 14, 2010 11:00:48 GMT -5
The more I read about these people, the more pissed off I get. What I wouldn't give for 10 minutes in a locked room with Bill Gothard and a big stick.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 13, 2010 21:55:04 GMT -5
{{{{{Ruth}}}}} Oh god, Ruth, it makes me sick to think of any kid going through something like that! I am so sorry that happened to you and your brothers, you deserved a lot better.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 9, 2010 0:07:24 GMT -5
Jesus, Buddah and Chuthulu!!!! Words fail me.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 4, 2010 11:05:15 GMT -5
And if there is one thing I've seen, is that the children of uber-fundies are rarely creative. They become very rigid, tow-the-line, color inside the line types. It's very sad when you see it happen to what would normally be a free spirited type of child. IME, fundy kids tend to become either robots or rebels. Those that don't have their spirits and souls beaten out of them (and sadly, I've seen a number of those in my life) tend to go the opposite direction and can get pretty extreme. I did the "wear a lot of black and listen to bad rock" thing in my 20s. We become desperate to find an identity that doesn't include God, sin and repression.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 3, 2010 23:55:57 GMT -5
I'm not laughing, I'm sickened by this. If there was any doubt in my mind before, I'm now convinced Michael Pearl is about as evil as they come. No one with a shred of compassion could have written that message.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Mar 1, 2010 17:54:18 GMT -5
Your story sounds so familiar. I remember when I left, I had nightmares about going to Hell for leaving God's path. And when I ran into fundy friends I was always asked if I was coming back to church and if I was still serving God. I also realized something else; When I left the church, I left the only thing we'd had in common. They were all nice people but I had nothing in common with them and no real desire to find anything. Fundy life was clean and holy and sterile. I like my life a lot more now that I'm dealing with reality, no matter how messy and complicated it seems at time. It's worth it to be able to think and act and feel for myself.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Feb 28, 2010 22:05:20 GMT -5
MusicMom... it hurt to read your introduction, as this is exactly what I'd be afraid of happening, should I ever have children. I often ask myself, if after sustaining so much damage from my days in fundamentalism, I could raise a child who would not grow up to hate everything I stand for because I am incapable of loving a child adequately. It's a question that haunts me even though I'm under no pressure to have a child... I've never wanted any (nor does my partner), and when I think through the details I still don't, but the nagging sense that I'd raise a militant fundamentalist follows me... Truly, that was one of the reasons I don't have children. I honestly don't feel, after my fundy upbringing, that I have much to offer in the way of motherhood. I feared I would damage my kids as badly as I was and while my parents weren't nearly as bad as some I've heard of on this and other boards, I still wouldn't wish how I grew up on anyone.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Feb 28, 2010 21:38:38 GMT -5
Ronica: My sense was not that Ruth is defending any of these practices here. I only noticed that she feels defensive of her brothers in the post, which I think is completely understandable given that they were also children who were entrenched in an abusive system. And, sadly, Divide and Conquer is, IME, a part of fundy family life. You do NOT want the kids banding together against you, especially when they reach their teens. So you pit them against each other by making older kids responsible for younger kids behavior (but don't give them the authority to back it up). And in true bootcamp form, punish everyone for one person's infractions. By the time you're done, the kids trust only the parents (even if it is only for negative reasons) and have little or no bonds with each other at all. Friends wonder why I don't have a lot of interaction with my younger siblings. I just tell them we were never a terribly close family; I just don't tell them why.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Feb 28, 2010 21:26:35 GMT -5
{{{{{Ruth}}}}} I am so sorry you kids had to go through that. I'm sure you've heard it before but I have to say it, your father shouldn't have been allowed to raise a goldfish, let alone children. Reading that broke my heart.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Feb 22, 2010 19:01:36 GMT -5
{wry grin} It reads a lot like the crush letters my friends and I used to mail to whatever hunk was on the cover of Tiger Beat (Yeah, I am that old ). Teenagers as a general rule tend to have an "Us vs Them" mentality anyway. That and a tendency to still look at the world as black and white. IMO, Tapati, you don't have that much to cringe over. You weren't any weirder than the rest of us.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Feb 21, 2010 18:21:04 GMT -5
IMO, the Pearls should find themselves in court as well. If not for their teachings, that little girl would still be alive and her sister would be home well and safe. Those two have caused so much harm with their books that the mind just boggles. What I would dearly love to see is an adult or older teen who's parents used the Pearls methods taking those two to court and suing them for allowing their teachings to rot the heart out of a family.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 31, 2010 0:50:01 GMT -5
Having grown up in a large family (although not quite as large as the Duggars) I truly have to wonder at how well adjusted those kids (especially the younger ones) really are. IMO, there is just no way you can raise 19 kids and give them the individual time and attention they need. As part of a family of 6, it wasn't always easy to be able to talk to my parents, although they did a pretty good job of giving us each a chance to make our own way. With the Duggars, it looks like a one size fits all approach to childrearing; which when you think about how patriarchical families are run makes sense. God expects them to all conform to the same molds and want the same lifestyle and there doesn't seem to be much room for individual dreams and plans. I truly wonder how well they will be able to function when they go out into the "real world", they've been so isolated from any kind of reality, first by their parents and now by TLC.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 31, 2010 0:38:27 GMT -5
My church also thought by saying over the pulpit, "We're not a cult," they could actually convince people that they weren't a cult. But if it looks like a cult and quacks like a cult... IMNSHO, the minute somebody says, "I'm not a <fitb>" I immediately start to wonder. Methinks they doth protest to much (to quote the Bard).
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phatchick
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Barren
Jan 27, 2010 0:53:50 GMT -5
Post by phatchick on Jan 27, 2010 0:53:50 GMT -5
there is a church here close to Portland Oregon who has had so many people die because they only believe in faith healing and laying on of the hands. there was actually a law passed to stop using faith as a defense for not taking your kid to the doctor. a whole family is on trial first the kids letting their 2 year old die then their parents letting their 16 year old die. I am sorry but they are evil and care more about their faith then their children. THANK YOU! IMO, that is one of the worst types of child abuse. It's one thing (again IMO) for an adult to make a decision to refuse medical treatment quite another to make that decision for a minor child who isn't old enough to make a reasoned decision about their faith and their health. We've had a similar case here in WI not too long ago and It just made me sick to think of what the poor kid went through.
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phatchick
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Barren
Jan 26, 2010 22:25:25 GMT -5
Post by phatchick on Jan 26, 2010 22:25:25 GMT -5
I am so sorry to read this. I'm just heartsick at how you and your family were treated because of this; I have friends who've struggled with infertility issues and no matter what your beliefs, it hurts. zen hugs and thank you for being brave enough to share this.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 6, 2010 22:30:40 GMT -5
He was certainly an adorable baby!
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 3, 2010 4:15:07 GMT -5
I It reminds me of a time that I told a quiverfull friend about a horrible thing that happened in my own life and she responded to me in my heartbreak by saying, "Well, remember, it's better than you deserve." That, IMO, is one of the worst things about that life. It steals compassion. When we have no sense of compassion or respect for ourselves, it's hard to feel it for anyone else. When you're taught that "whom the Lord loves, he chastises", then we think that if we're not suffering enough, we don't truly love the lord. Worse yet, he no longer loves us. Life becomes this big suffering game with the "winner" being the one who can claim the title "Ultimate Martyr for Christ".
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 3, 2010 4:01:04 GMT -5
At first I was resentful, but now I realize it wasn't anyone's fault. They didn't not have time for me because they were purposely avoiding me... religious activities just filled up their whole life. It's one of the reasons it's hard to leave. IMO, there's also the fact that often ALL you have in common is church and religion. After I left the baptist church, when I'd run into church friends and we'd start talking, I'd realize that while they were very nice people, I had nothing in common with them and the only thing we'd ever talked about before had been church. Without that there was nothing else holding the friendship together.
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phatchick
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Post by phatchick on Jan 2, 2010 0:02:46 GMT -5
I guess that is what had attracted me to fundamental Christianity in the first place, the sense of belonging and community. It most definitely is a false sense though if you're a person who thinks for themselves, found that out the hard way. Boy can I relate to that. Being female with a brain is probably the worst sin a fundy woman can commit. Especially when, like me, you feel a need to show off your intelligence studying the bible (which can cause a few problems right there, when what you read doesn't alway sync with what you're being taught). It's a very toxic enviroment for everyone but women seem to bear brunt of it.
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